Opinions on Turris

[Xspyrit]

Turris is doing his best and you make some good points, but IMO Turris isn't really impressive and is overrated and overpaid. He should be used as trade bait to get somebody better.

Warning people : if anyone thinks that JasonJim isn't a troll (or just a Leafs fan in disguise), you need to get your head checked... I'm not saying that because of only this post.

lol at your highest scorer (and almost PPG) overpaid at 1.4 per

Over rated. Mostly by hfers on this board
He is not creative and moves awkwardly. And i'm not saying he sucks, just a bit overrated here.
Still hoping he improves, but i thought foligno was better in that spot and am not sure now if dacosta would be better too.

Time will tell

I'm fighting hard to not lose faith in the human race.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Over rated. Mostly by hfers on this board
He is not creative and moves awkwardly. And i'm not saying he sucks, just a bit overrated here.
Still hoping he improves, but i thought foligno was better in that spot and am not sure now if dacosta would be better too.

Time will tell

Please, oh please tell me you are just kidding.

 

[Wham City]

It's asking a lot of him to look great without Spezza in the lineup.

Even though he and Alfie played some tough minutes last year, they didn't often see the top-pairing defenders they now see nightly.

His point production is fine, but you would like to see him get more shots. At the start of the year I thought he could reach 3 a game, putting up a little more than half that right now.

 

[BonkTastic]

It's asking a lot of him to look great without Spezza in the lineup.

Even though he and Alfie played some tough minutes last year, they didn't often see the top-pairing defenders they now see nightly.

His point production is fine, but you would like to see him get more shots. At the start of the year I thought he could reach 3 a game, putting up a little more than half that right now.

I don't want to include Alfie in this, because I'm going off of memory and I'm not sure where Alfie ranked off the top of my head, but I know for certain that of ALL of Ottawa's forwards last year, Turris faced the toughest quality of competition, and had his minutes managed the LEAST. Maclean had Turris out there against the other team's best players. I don't think anything has changed from last year.

 

[Wham City]

I don't want to include Alfie in this, because I'm going off of memory and I'm not sure where Alfie ranked off the top of my head, but I know for certain that of ALL of Ottawa's forwards last year, Turris faced the toughest quality of competition, and had his minutes managed the LEAST. Maclean had Turris out there against the other team's best players. I don't think anything has changed from last year.

This is last year's roster by TOI quality of competition, x axis opposing forward TOI, y axis opposing defence TOI.

I think the discrepancy between this and something like Corsi Rel QOC is that when star offensive players ie. Spezza are matched against defenders with poor to mediocre Corsi Rel's like Girardi and McDonagh it kind of spits out a misleading representation of the quality of defence Spezza was playing against.

So while you're right that among forwards Turris faced the toughest comp by Corsi Rel QOC, I think that's showing more the quality of offensive players he was facing and not necessarily the quality of defence.

 

[BonkTastic]

This is last year's roster by TOI quality of competition, x axis opposing forward TOI, y axis opposing defence TOI.

I think the discrepancy between this and something like Corsi Rel QOC is that when star offensive players ie. Spezza are matched against defenders with poor to mediocre Corsi Rel's like Girardi and McDonagh it kind of spits out a misleading representation of the quality of defence Spezza was playing against.

So while you're right that among forwards Turris faced the toughest comp by Corsi Rel QOC, I think that's showing more the quality of offensive players he was facing and not necessarily the quality of defence.

Good point.

Like I said, I was going off of memory, and must have been remembering the basic qualcomp stats.

 

[Icelevel]

I'm fighting hard to not lose faith in the human race.

He played about 10 games in a row there, was a ppg, way more physical than turris and better than spezza in about half of them. He made it our top line. Based on those games i saw he was better.
Turris is not that good yet, but has potential, whereas foligno is probably closer to his ceiling.

 

[Xspyrit]

He played about 10 games in a row there, was a ppg, way more physical than turris and better than spezza in about half of them. He made it our top line. Based on those games i saw he was better.
Turris is not that good yet, but has potential, whereas foligno is probably closer to his ceiling.

You and MAK are probably the only 2 persons on earth that would think that.

Congrats.

 

[Icelevel]

You and MAK are probably the only 2 persons on earth that would think that.

Congrats.

which is the part you disagree with?
1.more physical than turris?
2.points at center?
3.better than spezza in half the games?

(i don't remember reading one thing from mandy that i agree with)

 

[CanadianHockey]

I think you're overrating Foligno a bit. Turris is spoken of with really high praise here, but I think most realize he is a 2C and that's it. I like to compare him to Sam Gagner in terms of 'value' as a 2C - you don't want either of them on your top line for extended periods of time, but they're adequate as a second liner who can fill in on the top line for a few games if your 1C is nursing an injury.

 

[Xspyrit]

which is the part you disagree with?
1.more physical than turris?
2.points at center?
3.better than spezza in half the games?

(i don't remember reading one thing from mandy that i agree with)

lol ok

I was a Foligno fan, not my favorite player but very likeable dude on and off the ice.

However I always saw him as an elite 3rd liner despite the hope I had that he'd develop into a top-6 forward, or even his production in his last season here. Just check how much he will produce this year with Columbus. He had a career year with us last season (47 pts) but it was with the 4th highest scoring teams. He's not an offensive catalyst, but more a 35-40 pts player, which is good but not as much as some would like to think.

IMO, we sold at the highest Foligno value. He was a very good investement :

We took him 28th overall, we used him for 351 NHL games (got 61 goals and 87 assists from him) on cheap contracts and then we traded him for an asset that we needed even more, just before we HAD to pay him more money.

PERFECT asset management in Foligno's case.

1- Who cares? Personally, I don't think ALL our players should be physical, that's why I like the play of guys like Karlsson, Gonchar and Regin.

2- It's a bit like Chris Kelly when Spezza, Fisher and Vermette were injured at the same time.

3- Sorry I won't buy that. Players have up and downs. Spezza and Foligno shouldn't even be in the same sentence when you're talking about center ability.

 

[ATdaisuki]

He played about 10 games in a row there, was a ppg, way more physical than turris and better than spezza in about half of them. He made it our top line. Based on those games i saw he was better.
Turris is not that good yet, but has potential, whereas foligno is probably closer to his ceiling.

just want to verify your stuff, do you have the game logs where foligno played in that spot? i know he did play a bit at center last year. i remember him looking pretty good there, but if he was as good as you're saying, i find it hard to believe he would have been moved.

 

[Icelevel]

just want to verify your stuff, do you have the game logs where foligno played in that spot? i know he did play a bit at center last year. i remember him looking pretty good there, but if he was as good as you're saying, i find it hard to believe he would have been moved.

i posted it a while ago. he was ppg or very close. (i'll look it up)
at the time others were posting about it too. it wasn't just about the stats but how well he was playing overall. I guess it is my opinion but it was pretty plain to see he was outplaying spezza on the top line, making the 2nd line with foligno a lot more effective at times (a lot of times).
When turris came in and foligno got bumped to the 3rd or 4th or whatever he(turris) was NOT as good. i don't care what anyone says, i remember. And i'm not saying i wish either trade (turris, or foligno) didn't happen, just that for the games foligno got at center he was very very good and i haven't really seen turris play better or much better than foligno did in those 10 games. Would foligno have continued to play that well? i don't know, maybe not. Obviously management didn't think so.

Edit:
Turris
First 10games at center
1g, 6a 7pts

Foligno
Last 10games at center
4g, 4a 8pts
(1 game he only played 8mins. ??)

Turris had more mins than foligno, but I can't remember exactly which games foligno played center, if there were more than 10 or less. These were the 10 before turris got here, and foligno was playing there until that pretty sure.
http://senators.nhl.com/club/historicalplayers.htm?season=20112012

Again, this isn't to prove or argue or whatever that foligno is better than turris just that he was playing extremely well at center getting 4 goals and 8 pts in 10 games while playing physical and pesty on the 2nd line.
I think this is also the time when he started getting all those ridiculous penalties for playing real, tough, playoff type hockey (which happens to be exactly what our team is lacking right now) and getting the equally ridiculous reputation of being a dirty player.

 

[Micklebot]

This is last year's roster by TOI quality of competition, x axis opposing forward TOI, y axis opposing defence TOI.

I think the discrepancy between this and something like Corsi Rel QOC is that when star offensive players ie. Spezza are matched against defenders with poor to mediocre Corsi Rel's like Girardi and McDonagh it kind of spits out a misleading representation of the quality of defence Spezza was playing against.

So while you're right that among forwards Turris faced the toughest comp by Corsi Rel QOC, I think that's showing more the quality of offensive players he was facing and not necessarily the quality of defence.

I've soured on QualComp, whether corsi or +/-, because its really misleading. Just because a guy has a great +/- doesn't mean he is tougher competition that a guy who has worse (Kelly last year). Same goes with Corsi; Rel corsi Qualcomp would put Da Costa, Daugavins, and Regin as the 3 toughest sens forwards to play against, which is clearly misleading.

Part of the problem is that it doesn't take into account who those guys are facing and adjust for it. So, for example, if Regin is facing 4th liners, maybe his corsi looks better because of it, and thus makes him look like the toughest guy to play against in Ottawa.

Edit: I should say, I still look at these stats, but try to keep all the above in mind. Too many people spout of Corsi and qual comp without context and treat it as the "who is awsome" stat. It does show to some degree wether the player is doing well in the role he has been placed, but is difficult to be used in comparing players in varying situations.

 

[enviro61]

The whole offence is struggling so it's hard to single out 1 specific player. Ottawa is not a deep team and I think most fans would acknowledge that. An injury or two and our lack of depth sticks out.

We are still rebuilding and I hope management doesn't lose sight of that.