Only game being played is the blame game(CBA Negotiation discussion thread) - Part IV

[Boltsfan2029]

Shall we talk about PR?

"things have never been better" "the league and it's franchises are thriving" *“Clearly the cap is going up and that's good for everybody" "My feeling is contracts should always be honored" "Now the team's ability to compete is based upon its hockey, front office and team-building skills, not on the team's ability to pay, ... We have emerged as partners with our players and our fans" "It's also making things (fiscally) healthier at the AHL level as well as the NHL. I feel it already"

That's not what we're discussing. We're discussing using personal insults or attacks directed at the individuals participating in the negotiation process. At least the quotes you've given above contain none of that and are professionally phrased.

 

[Pepper]

Not according the many long term contracts that have been signed!

The team is the product, nobody goes out to watch Kulikov or Liles in Toronto. People go to watch the LEAFS, whoever happens to play for them.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

The team is the product, nobody goes out to watch Kulikov or Liles in Toronto. People go to watch the LEAFS, whoever happens to play for them.

I think you are being disingenuous.

 

[Bean in Charge]

@KatieStrangESPN: #CBA Steve Fehr said two sides had a "frank exchange of views" about what should be included in hockey-related revenue as currently defined

@KatieStrangESPN: #CBA Two sides will meet again tmrw. May go over HRR again, but sounds like Sunday's discussions will center on legal issues, grievances etc

@drosennhl: Steve Fehr said it is a positive that sides are talking but it is very much an up and down process. They will talk tomorrow, too.

@drosennhl: Asked if they will meet Monday to keep momentum going Steve Fehr said "I am always hopeful."

I hate quotes from these guys like "I'm always hopeful." You are in control of continuing the momentum!! It's not something that occurs by chance. Make it happen yourself. UGH

 

[Boltsfan2029]

I think you are being disingenuous.

Speaking for myself... I also go to see my team play. If the stars weren't there when the lockout ends I would still go see my team play. No Stamkos? I'd still go. No Lecavalier? I'd still go. No St. Louis? I'd still go.

They'll all be gone someday, but I'll still be there as long as I'm able to be.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Everyone knows that the quality of competition would suffer greatly if they went to replacement players. If you disagree, frankly I call you a liar.

It would, but IMO about 75% of NHL players would soon jump ship and sign. All the guys who can't get jobs in Europe and they guys a year or two from retirement will cross lines and then it's only a matter of time until most everyone comes back.

 

[Nalens Oga]

It would, but IMO about 75% of NHL players would soon jump ship and sign. All the guys who can't get jobs in Europe and they guys a year or two from retirement will cross lines and then it's only a matter of time until most everyone comes back.

The 75% don't matter. It's that 25% who make the leauge. Do you think we'd have record revenues if not for Ovy/Crosby and Malkin and Stamkos and Giroux and Datsyuk etc?

 

[Pepper]

The 75% don't matter. It's that 25% who make the leauge. Do you think we'd have record revenues if not for Ovy/Crosby and Malkin and Stamkos and Giroux and Datsyuk etc?

BS. Look at Leafs and Habs roster, it's utter rubbish (no offense to fans of either team). Yet the teams are pulling in record revenues. Do you think that's because Ovy, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux and Datsyuk play in under 1/3 of the games that Leafs/Habs fans see in their home arenas?

Think again.

 

[Butch 19]

BS. Look at Leafs and Habs roster, it's utter rubbish (no offense to fans of either team). Yet the teams are pulling in record revenues. Do you think that's because Ovy, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux and Datsyuk play in under 1/3 of the games that Leafs/Habs fans see in their home arenas?

Think again.

Exactly.

The "bottom" 75% are shooting themselves in the foot to protect the high salaries of the top 25%. Actually, I would go as low as 10 - 15% of the highest salaried players are fooling the lower salary players.

The top 10% will always get their big money, it's the little guy that makes $800,000 that the NHLPA is screwing here. That player has a 4 - 6 yr career and the NHLPA is costing him (& family) one of those ("big salary") years - again.

 

[kdb209]

It would, but IMO about 75% of NHL players would soon jump ship and sign. All the guys who can't get jobs in Europe and they guys a year or two from retirement will cross lines and then it's only a matter of time until most everyone comes back.

The 75% don't matter. It's that 25% who make the leauge. Do you think we'd have record revenues if not for Ovy/Crosby and Malkin and Stamkos and Giroux and Datsyuk etc?

BS. Look at Leafs and Habs roster, it's utter rubbish (no offense to fans of either team). Yet the teams are pulling in record revenues. Do you think that's because Ovy, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux and Datsyuk play in under 1/3 of the games that Leafs/Habs fans see in their home arenas?

Think again.

And, of course, if it ever got to the (unlikely) point of replacement players, it would be in a post-Lockout/Impasse CBA/NHLPA strike situation - and those players under NHL contract would potentially no longer have the option of earning $$$ playing overseas.

 

[Nalens Oga]

^ I agree that the 800 K guy is being screwed here. BUT I don't agree about the Leafs/Habs thing. Okay those teams are bringing in big time revenues and they would without star players (I'm sure the amount of Subban or Price or Kessel type merchandise sales help though). But the reason the revenue figure grew so fast OUTSIDE of the Canadian teams has to do with this new generation of elite players. My point is simply that you can't replace them with replacement players and expect things to move along. Those are the players that got many fans into the game or the ones that they identify with.

However the players don't have a gag order on them and the lesser paid guys with shorter careers also seem to be pro-PA line though probably not to the same extent as a Parise or Tavares or someone.

 

[vladmyir111]

Both sides are talking big, but I can't imagine this going more than a few more weeks. 3+ billion is a lot of ****ing money to throw away for an extra 5% per year.

I mean realistically speaking losing a full year would make everyone involved lose more money than whatever the most lopsided offer would for either side over the course of the next 7 years.

 

[Nanuk23]

Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib
Just spoke with Pens player rep Craig Adams. Little progress has been made at meetings, according to Adams. He called it "disappointing."

 

[Mike Jones]

Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib
Just spoke with Pens player rep Craig Adams. Little progress has been made at meetings, according to Adams. He called it "disappointing."

Poor baby. Adams (And his colleagues) should be told to quit whining and stay with it.

I've gone from supporting the players to having no patience for the game playing and posturing.

 

[mossey3535]

Poor baby. Adams (And his colleagues) should be told to quit whining and stay with it.

I've gone from supporting the players to having no patience for the game playing and posturing.

Exactly. Even if the NHL's initial offer of 43% was insulting to the players, even an outrageous counter-offer by the NHLPA of 58% (going up in response to the league going down) would have been more progress than has been made so far.

 

[JAX]

I thought the cost certainty Mr. Bettman demanded 7 years ago was to stop things from getting out of control?

And like I said many times before the CBA they had had too many loopholes which is causing the current problems....it has to be fixed or else too many teams will continue to bleed red.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
Player text: unless there's surprise turn soon, NHLPA views weekend meetings as a step back. Called NHL's actions "sickening."

Huh...I guess the HRR meeting went bad.

 

[Crows*]

Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
Player text: unless there's surprise turn soon, NHLPA views weekend meetings as a step back. Called NHL's actions "sickening."

Huh...I guess the HRR meeting went bad.

Oh dear god. It's probably what the NHL said would come off the table .

 

[xECK29x]

I wouldn't trust anything Botta says, very little Isles fans trust him. He is always super negative.

 

[Crows*]

I just spoke with Craig Adams, the Penguins' player rep. His words came across as negative regarding this weekend's labor meetings in New York.
The tone of his voice was something even worse.
Adams was very clearly disappointed in the negotiations - or, some might say, the lack of negotiations - in New York this weekend.
He said the league's ability to divide its revenue is the "elephant" in the room, but admitted it hasn't been discussed in two days.
Bad, bad news, hockey fans.
Check out my story at www.triblive.com regarding the NHL lockout.


sulia.com/channel/hockey/f/d3559643-83a7-43a5-aebf-b3664d500950

 

[LadyStanley]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2012/09/29/20245076.html?cid=rsssportsslam! hockey
Fans don't see end to end to lockout soon

 

[Jyrki]

So they'll try to play balls to the walls again? That sure worked out well last time.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19469/wade-redden-dragged-into-lockout

Redden hopes that the new CBA includes splitting of salary after trade so he and others in similar situations aren't stuck in the AHL.

And he's waiting for a new CBA, not collecting a pay check.

 

[Tra La La]

I expect the league will cancel the first 45 days of the season now.

 

[Legionnaire11]

I thought we were set for 3 days of talks... but after 2 days, the union gets ahead of the league and says they are "sickening". Just more PR nonsense from the union.

even if talks aren't going well, you still have another day. If it still doesn't go anywhere, just present the media/fans with the facts. Tell us why the NHL is "sickening" and detail the good faith attempts that you have made.

What is sickening to me is how the players fail to realize that they CAN NOT WIN. They can sit out a year, or two years as they have threatened, and they can gain 60% of revenues as a result... they STILL lose because they lost out on two seasons worth of pay and the overall pie is smaller when play does resume. Not to mention that it could result in teams folding (long shot) which means less jobs, and of course less revenue, thus an even smaller pie.

If the league "wins", the players lose... if the players "win", the players lose.