Value of: Ondrej kase - Flyers

[24 others]

Flyers are currently 12th in the league with 158 GF. With Kases 5 goals it would catapult us into 9th. I hear you bro.

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No worries mate. You're not trading for Kase anyway, are you.

I was just making fun of the fact that fans whose team sits 12th in scoring and is about to miss the playoffs again, are so confident about their top 9. One would expect to hear that from WSH or TB fans, not from you guys. But you're right, I shouldn't have. A positive attitude is a great thing.

 

[hmc1987]

Bolded are the only two better than Kase

Konency is definitively better than Kase. It's not even debatable tbh

 

[tictactoe]

No worries mate. You're not trading for Kase anyway, are you.

I was just making fun of the fact that fans whose team sits 12th in scoring and is about to miss the playoffs again, are so confident about their top 9. One would expect to hear that from WSH or TB fans, not from you guys. But you're right, I shouldn't have. A positive attitude is a great thing.

^^ I guess that post is a bit rhetorical?
I guess you are the one that think that trading Gostisbehere for Kase would improve Flyers playoff chances? But both players scored 5 goals each this season. So I am not sure.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

^^ I guess that post is a bit rhetorical?
I guess you are the one that think that trading Gostisbehere for Kase would improve Flyers playoff chances? But both players scored 5 goals each this season. So I am not sure.

Continuing to post the guys goal total as your lone argument is really just demonstrating your ignorance. Those who have a clue here know that Kases's ability and upside extend far beyond the number of goals he has this season. It's ok if you have no clue about a player, but your hockeydb scouting report is just making you look foolish.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I

Continuing to post the guys goal total as your lone argument is really just demonstrating your ignorance. Those who have a clue here know that Kases's ability and upside extend far beyond the number of goals he has this season. It's ok if you have no clue about a player, but your hockeydb scouting report is just making you look foolish.

The Ducks forward situation is clearly below average. Kase is being given every opportunity to blossom into a top 6 forward. His points should be higher and the trading for him should be deciding is this bad team inflating points or really good player(example is Duclair legit or inflated). His shot percentage is in the toilet. His PPG is disappointing this year and the best you answer is puck possession. Those type players never have and never will get 2nd pairing defensemen like Sanheim. Call me crazy but I like trading for output and deciding if it is bad team inflated instead of words like "upside". Can Kase be a legit 2 line player. Of course he can. Do you have any shot today you will get value of 2nd line player? ZERO. The type of trade would be Kase for Ghost and I don't make that trade today. Maybe day before 2021 expansion draft but not today.

 

[bruins4thecup65]

You have any young top 4 defensemen (preferably RHD)?

Boston has RHD available and would be interested in Kase

 

[Dooble08]

Continuing to post the guys goal total as your lone argument is really just demonstrating your ignorance. Those who have a clue here know that Kases's ability and upside extend far beyond the number of goals he has this season. It's ok if you have no clue about a player, but your hockeydb scouting report is just making you look foolish.

People quote hard stats, people quote underlying measures. The truth usually lies somewhere in between. I think the problem is that there is so little data to go on with Kase. He's played a little over 2 seasons in 4 years in the NHL due to injuries/whatever. The hard numbers show him at an pace of 18 goals over the course of an 82 game season, but he's never played 82 games this season (here's hoping he can/or close this season). The underlying measures show him to be a very good puck possession player. But as a Flyers fan, I would like to see the underlying measures provide more goals and assists. At the end of the day you can dominate the puck possession game, yet still lose the game. Maybe he needs more stability to develop chemistry with line mates, maybe he needs to play with better players. Not really sure.

Edit: Also, btw he has 6 goals this season now.

 

[Dooble08]

No worries mate. You're not trading for Kase anyway, are you.

I was just making fun of the fact that fans whose team sits 12th in scoring and is about to miss the playoffs again, are so confident about their top 9. One would expect to hear that from WSH or TB fans, not from you guys. But you're right, I shouldn't have. A positive attitude is a great thing.

I guess we should just quit the rest of the season. It's not like we are 1 point out with a head to head advantage over the 2 teams directly above us (2-0-1 against Carolina, and 2-0 against Columbus). In the end what we really need is someone with a track record of scoring goals, not someone with the potential to maybe (or maybe not) score goals.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I

The Ducks forward situation is clearly below average. Kase is being given every opportunity to blossom into a top 6 forward. His points should be higher and the trading for him should be deciding is this bad team inflating points or really good player(example is Duclair legit or inflated). His shot percentage is in the toilet. His PPG is disappointing this year and the best you answer is puck possession. Those type players never have and never will get 2nd pairing defensemen like Sanheim. Call me crazy but I like trading for output and deciding if it is bad team inflated instead of words like "upside". Can Kase be a legit 2 line player. Of course he can. Do you have any shot today you will get value of 2nd line player? ZERO. The type of trade would be Kase for Ghost and I don't make that trade today. Maybe day before 2021 expansion draft but not today.

You're trying to drag me into a portion of the argument I've taken no part in. I'm merely stating that scouts/GMs will be at a much larger picture than the guys stat line for this season. He's obviously a much better player and has shown he has much more upside than that. Completely dismissing a talented young player with excellent possession numbers, and with a large sample size of being a top 5 producer in the league on a points per 60 basis.

 

[tictactoe]

Continuing to post the guys goal total as your lone argument is really just demonstrating your ignorance. Those who have a clue here know that Kases's ability and upside extend far beyond the number of goals he has this season. It's ok if you have no clue about a player, but your hockeydb scouting report is just making you look foolish.

I m not trading a player Gostisbehere for possible ability and maybe upside. Who is showing ignorance now and looking for clue..
My hockeydb scouting report? lol.. how did yo come to that conclusion?
By the you already established that Kases advanced stats makes him better than Konecny Voracek or Hayes ha ha..

 

[Flyer lurker]

You're trying to drag me into a portion of the argument I've taken no part in. I'm merely stating that scouts/GMs will be at a much larger picture than the guys stat line for this season. He's obviously a much better player and has shown he has much more upside than that. Completely dismissing a talented young player with excellent possession numbers, and with a large sample size of being a top 5 producer in the league on a points per 60 basis.

If he obviously a much better player WHY ISN'T HE A BETTER PLAYER? I feel like Brad Pitt in moneyball talking about geronimo. maybe Kase gets it. And it would be dumb for Ducks to trade at this point. But please don't tell me he is there.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I m not trading a player Gostisbehere for possible ability and maybe upside. Who is showing ignorance now and looking for clue..
My hockeydb scouting report? lol.. how did yo come to that conclusion?
By the you already established that Kases advanced stats makes him better than Konecny Voracek or Hayes ha ha..

Can you quote where I stated Kase is better than those players, or anyone for that matter? Merely pointing out that you repeatedly quoting a players goal is bringing nothing of value to the conversation. You're trying to tell people what he is/isn't worth and it's clearly based on nothing but his stat line this season, hence hockeydb scouting report.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

If he obviously a much better player WHY ISN'T HE A BETTER PLAYER? I feel like Brad Pitt in moneyball talking about geronimo. maybe Kase gets it. And it would be dumb for Ducks to trade at this point. But please don't tell me he is there.

This half season he has 6 goals. In another half season he was top 5 in the league in points per 60. His true ability is somewhere in the vast region in between - and all I'm trying to say here is that completely dismissing this kid based on his numbers this season is extremely narrow minded.

 

[Flyer lurker]

This half season he has 6 goals. In another half season he was top 5 in the league in points per 60. His true ability is somewhere in the vast region in between - and all I'm trying to say here is that completely dismissing this kid based on his numbers this season is extremely narrow minded.

I am saying Kase as of today is a 3rd line forward or a cup team and a 2 line forward on a meh team at this time. That ain't dismissal. But I am saying it sure feels like he can be better. There is upside he can be a 2nd line player. But trading for upside is a good way to get gm's fired. Those are players you keep and hope for the best. Heusy one of your duck compadres threw out Ghost or Sanheim. And Kase for Sanheim is pure laughable.

 

[ItMe]

After reading through all this non-sense I have determined that whoever closes this thread should also leave a comment saying "Kase Closed".

Thank you!

 

[CREW99AW]

This half season he has 6 goals. In another half season he was top 5 in the league in points per 60. His true ability is somewhere in the vast region in between - and all I'm trying to say here is that completely dismissing this kid based on his numbers this season is extremely narrow minded.

I agree. The team acquiring kase would be doing so because they like his potential. Not because he's tearing up the league this season.

Sounds like Flyer fans expect a buy low trade,but since Kase is not a drain on the team budget or closing in on unrestricted free agency,I don't understand why he'd be moved short of major overpayment.

 

[Tripod]

"Completely dismissing a talented young player with excellent possession numbers, and with a large sample size of being a top 5 producer in the league on a points per 60 basis."

And this is where certain stats are useless. Does anyone really believe is Kase was given top ice time those numbers translate into top production? Of course not.

Reality is, he is on a 36 point pace. He has a career high of 38 points. He could pace for more, but missed games every year.

At age 24 and in his 4th year, he should be treated for what he is and has done. He is a sub 40 point guy who misses games with injury but could be a 40+ guy with luck, health and better PP numbers. He WOULD NOT get that PP time on the Flyers. At best, he would be on the 2nd unit.

But again: Giroux, Couts, Jake, JVR, Konecny, Hayes...all have more ES points than him. Then we have kids Farabee and Frost.....along with "hopefully" Patrick and Lindblom. So with health, that's 10 top 9 forwards...and at worst it's 8. So Kase isn't a "need"...it's a "want".

Now would I trade JVR for him to save cap space? Sure. But he is the only one in that 1st group of 6 that could be moved for him. And we are not trading any of the other 4 for him. So that leaves the D....and by trading Ghost that means that Hagg plays every game and he and Braun are getting caved right now. He should be the #7.

So LOGICALLY, Kase just is not a fit. It doesn't mean we wouldn't like to have him but not at the cost to get him. He has WAY more opportunity to reach his potential by staying in Anaheim. They can give him more icetime than the Flyers could as he will not play above Konecny or Voracek at RW. That's reality.

So maybe it's time to shut this one down.

 

[tictactoe]

Can you quote where I stated Kase is better than those players, or anyone for that matter? Merely pointing out that you repeatedly quoting a players goal is bringing nothing of value to the conversation. You're trying to tell people what he is/isn't worth and it's clearly based on nothing but his stat line this season, hence hockeydb scouting report.

Well I figured since you just went out and said that I use hockeydb I can just assume anything.. But back to my points.. Do I think Gostisbehere has more value than Kase? Yes. Do I think Kase would not make Flyers top 9 if Patrick Nolan and Lindblom were healthy? Yes.

If it is between Kase and play Morgan Frost.. Lets play Morgan Frost. Would I be interested in Kase, sure but for a draft pick not named Morgan Frost or Cam York, Farabee etc etc... or a pick (not 1st)

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Well I figured since you just went out and said that I use hockeydb I can just assume anything.. But back to my points.. Do I think Gostisbehere has more value than Kase? Yes. Do I think Kase would not make Flyers top 9 if Patrick Nolan and Lindblom were healthy? Yes.

If it is between Kase and play Morgan Frost.. Lets play Morgan Frost. Would I be interested in Kase, sure but for a draft pick not named Morgan Frost or Cam York, Farabee etc etc... or a pick (not 1st)

Idk what this thread is still around... Kases value is better in Anaheim... he has potential... but he hasn't showed enough to this point to really have much more value than a 2nd.... he struggled for majority of the season so far, as he was coming back from a torn labrum. Its not like hes a UFA anytime soon or overpaid, were much better holdilng on to him for now.

Hed be a great player to buy low on, if the ducks were selling him at that price.... but it would be terrible asset management for Anaheim to sell on him at this point.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

"Completely dismissing a talented young player with excellent possession numbers, and with a large sample size of being a top 5 producer in the league on a points per 60 basis."

And this is where certain stats are useless. Does anyone really believe is Kase was given top ice time those numbers translate into top production? Of course not.

Reality is, he is on a 36 point pace. He has a career high of 38 points. He could pace for more, but missed games every year.

At age 24 and in his 4th year, he should be treated for what he is and has done. He is a sub 40 point guy who misses games with injury but could be a 40+ guy with luck, health and better PP numbers. He WOULD NOT get that PP time on the Flyers. At best, he would be on the 2nd unit.

But again: Giroux, Couts, Jake, JVR, Konecny, Hayes...all have more ES points than him. Then we have kids Farabee and Frost.....along with "hopefully" Patrick and Lindblom. So with health, that's 10 top 9 forwards...and at worst it's 8. So Kase isn't a "need"...it's a "want".

Now would I trade JVR for him to save cap space? Sure. But he is the only one in that 1st group of 6 that could be moved for him. And we are not trading any of the other 4 for him. So that leaves the D....and by trading Ghost that means that Hagg plays every game and he and Braun are getting caved right now. He should be the #7.

So LOGICALLY, Kase just is not a fit. It doesn't mean we wouldn't like to have him but not at the cost to get him. He has WAY more opportunity to reach his potential by staying in Anaheim. They can give him more icetime than the Flyers could as he will not play above Konecny or Voracek at RW. That's reality.

So maybe it's time to shut this one down.

I've said nothing about Kase's fit for the Flyers, if they have no room for a young top 9 forward with upside that's understandable. My entire point is that there is a lot of reason to believe Kase can be more than just a 40 point third liner, if you are looking at more than purely just the point totals he's put up in his partial seasons thus far. The teams that would be interested, would be looking at a lot of other underlying factors and thinking they have a chance to buy low on a possible top 6 winger.

It's not just advanced stats that would drive this belief, the eye test backs it up. When he's been healthy there have been arguments among Ducks fans about whether Kase is the team's top winger ahead of Silfverberg and Rakell. While both are obviously more proven commodities, Kase has shown a superior ability to drive the play.

 

[hmc1987]

This half season he has 6 goals. In another half season he was top 5 in the league in points per 60. His true ability is somewhere in the vast region in between - and all I'm trying to say here is that completely dismissing this kid based on his numbers this season is extremely narrow minded.

Ignore anyone that dismisses Kase due to this season alone. Hes a good player, but suggesting hes better than Konency is definitely silly

 

[Tripod]

I've said nothing about Kase's fit for the Flyers, if they have no room for a young top 9 forward with upside that's understandable. My entire point is that there is a lot of reason to believe Kase can be more than just a 40 point third liner, if you are looking at more than purely just the point totals he's put up in his partial seasons thus far. The teams that would be interested, would be looking at a lot of other underlying factors and thinking they have a chance to buy low on a possible top 6 winger.

It's not just advanced stats that would drive this belief, the eye test backs it up. When he's been healthy there have been arguments among Ducks fans about whether Kase is the team's top winger ahead of Silfverberg and Rakell. While both are obviously more proven commodities, Kase has shown a superior ability to drive the play.

There is nothing wrong with any of this. Most Flyers fans have no issue...or shouldn't have any issue with Kase the player. The issue is who we have already, who has the ability to be better than him as early as next year, and the cost to acquire.

This thread should be closed just due to the cost to acquire him doesn't fit what the Flyers would give up.

 

[tictactoe]

Idk what this thread is still around... Kases value is better in Anaheim... he has potential... but he hasn't showed enough to this point to really have much more value than a 2nd.... he struggled for majority of the season so far, as he was coming back from a torn labrum. Its not like hes a UFA anytime soon or overpaid, were much better holdilng on to him for now.

Hed be a great player to buy low on, if the ducks were selling him at that price.... but it would be terrible asset management for Anaheim to sell on him at this point.

I do not have a problem with that ^^^ at all. Never said he is a bad player.

 

[anezthes]

Boston has RHD available and would be interested in Kase

I'm listening.

 

[Starat327]

Continuing to post the guys goal total as your lone argument is really just demonstrating your ignorance. Those who have a clue here know that Kases's ability and upside extend far beyond the number of goals he has this season. It's ok if you have no clue about a player, but your hockeydb scouting report is just making you look foolish.

Likewise, the poster who is laughing at our GPG rates being low is failing to recognize that we lost our top goal scorer 30 games in to the season. I know that isnt you, but the idea of context needs to be applied to both sides if we (collective, not you and I specifically) are going to throw stats around. Otherwise, this is where the conversation goes.