On Therrien, Accountability, and the Habs Unproductive Powerplay

[LastWordArmy]

Crimson Skorpion wrote the following piece on Michel Therrien's coaching, the Habs unproductive powerplay and what needs to be done to fix it.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2015/05/05/michel-therriens-idea-of-accountability-is-wrong/

Click to read more...

 

[Analyzer*]

Where's the suppose "fix" to the habs powerplay issues other than rampaging over the fact that anyone with a brain knows is wrong with the team.

Too bad a member of the media didn't have some courage to ask a real question.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

I don't know who Crimson Skorpion is but after reading this article, he's just another Habs fan who vastly overate this team offensive ability.

 

[Habsawce]

Fire them all imo. Record or not, the team or strategy never adapted to a single controversy all year and shows a lack of creativity for today's NHL.

 

[Lorty]

I don't know who Crimson Skorpion is but after reading this article, he's just another Habs fan who vastly overate this team offensive ability.

The EGG line was on pace for 50 points each and they played on the third line in the 2012-2013 season. We have Markov and Subban that are good offensive players. We have an almost 40 goals scorer in Pacioretty and we have Plekanec, a pretty good 2 way-forward. Sure, we have Desharnais, but most teams have flaws.


I genuinely believe we have a good roster that is under-performing at this moment. All these players have proved they can be excellent players in good conditions.

 

[Boud]

The EGG line was on pace for 50 points each and they played on the third line in the 2012-2013 season. We have Markov and Subban that are good offensive players. We have an almost 40 goals scorer in Pacioretty and we have Plekanec, a pretty good 2 way-forward. Sure, we have Desharnais, but most teams have flaws.


I genuinely believe we have a good roster that is under-performing at this moment. All these players have proved they can be excellent players in good conditions.

Honestly, look at the forward group, what is happening right now is normal.

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gallagher
Prust - Flynn/Desharnais - Parenteau
Galchenyuk - Eller - Weise
De la Rose - Mitchell - DSP

This is not a good forward group at all. Defense and goaltending is very good , amongst the best in the league but offense is arguably one of the worst in the league and IMO the worst in the playoffs.

I count three top 6 players, 4 if you count Galchenyuk and only one top line forward.

 

[DAChampion]

Honestly, look at the forward group, what is happening right now is normal.

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gallagher
Prust - Flynn/Desharnais - Parenteau
Galchenyuk - Eller - Weise
De la Rose - Mitchell - DSP

This is not a good forward group at all. Defense and goaltending is very good , amongst the best in the league but offense is arguably one of the worst in the league and IMO the worst in the playoffs.

I count three top 6 players, 4 if you count Galchenyuk and only one top line forward.

It doesn't look like a forward group because they play with a defense-oriented coach, your argument is a tautology. You see that the forwards are struggling, and you conclude it's because they're bad forwards.

A mere two years ago, when the coach was using a different system, they were near the top of the NHL in goals. The power play was at 21%.

 

[Boud]

It doesn't look like a forward group because they play with a defense-oriented coach, your argument is a tautology. You see that the forwards are struggling, and you conclude it's because they're bad forwards.

A mere two years ago, when the coach was using a different system, they were near the top of the NHL in goals. The power play was at 21%.

They are not bad forwards, they are not a threath offensively at all. Who can score goals on this team? Gallagher can get some garbage goals, Plekanec usually gets around 20, and the only guy who can score consistantly is Pacioretty. There is ONLY 1 line that can score on Montreal's roster and it's whatever line Pacioretty is on. How easy is it for opposing teams to figure that out, they just need to have somebody covering Pacioretty and nothing else happens.

I don't see any talent in this lineup aside from Galchenyuk and Pacioretty.

Prust,DSP,Parenteau,Eller,Flynn,Mitchell,De La Rose are all bottom 6 players and Desharnais is Desharnais. The day that a roster like this will be amongst the best in the league offensively it'll be raining **** from the sky. This is a great supporting cast group but don't ask them to muster anything offensively.

It doesn't matter if they play a defensive system, they can't finish anyway.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

We're not even that bad 5-on-5. The 4% PP is really killing us, a bit over 20% and we would have 4-5 more goals in these playoffs. Maybe we would have won Tampa game #1. Highly likely we could have swept Ottawa or beat them in one less game. Ultimately it will be the end of us facing Tampa I fear.

The Habs are built like an opportunistic team. Opportunistic teams NEED to take advantage of the PP. Right now the Habs are just hanging on waiting for something to happen.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

It doesn't look like a forward group because they play with a defense-oriented coach, your argument is a tautology. You see that the forwards are struggling, and you conclude it's because they're bad forwards.

Since Therrien came in, Pacio has become a 40 goal scorer and Subban has been nominated twice in 3 years for the Norris Trophy. Not only that but Subban is the leading scorer for the Habs in the playoffs for two straight years.

The answer is pretty simple: talented players will produce. The problem with Crimson Skorpion, with Lorty, with DAchampion, and with so many others Habs fan, your problem is you vastly overate this team offensive ability.

It has nothing to do with the system in place and we have a HUGE example of that in the last 2 games against Tampa: we dominated each game but the players on the ice couldn't put the puck in the net. Is this because of Therrien's system? No it's because the players are not enough talented to capitalize on all these opportunities.

In the last 2 games, Therrien's sytem completely neutralize Tampa on 5 on 5, the Habs coaching staff has figured out a way to neutralize them. But the Habs don't have the offensive talent to capitalize and take a big lead in the game.

It Has Nothing To Do With Therrien. The Habs are a poor offensive team.

 

[DAChampion]

They are not bad forwards, they are not a threath offensively at all. Who can score goals on this team? Gallagher can get some garbage goals, Plekanec usually gets around 20, and the only guy who can score consistantly is Pacioretty. There is ONLY 1 line that can score on Montreal's roster and it's whatever line Pacioretty is on. How easy is it for opposing teams to figure that out, they just need to have somebody covering Pacioretty and nothing else happens.

I don't see any talent in this lineup aside from Galchenyuk and Pacioretty.

Prust,DSP,Parenteau,Eller,Flynn,Mitchell,De La Rose are all bottom 6 players and Desharnais is Desharnais. The day that a roster like this will be amongst the best in the league offensively it'll be raining **** from the sky. This is a great supporting cast group but don't ask them to muster anything offensively.

It doesn't matter if they play a defensive system, they can't finish anyway.

Brendan Gallagher is 88th among NHL forwards for scoring this year, with 47 points. He is 54th among forwards for goal scoring with 24 goals. And he did this in spite of an awful power play system: Gallagher is a first line level player. A below average first liner, certainly, but a first liner nonetheless. Admittedly, he is a 5on5 first line player, he is not a 5on4 first line player, his skills are not suited to the power play, but you know what that's fine.

There is good offensive talent on this team, and we've seen it at times in the past few years. Therrien's system though is not compatible with offense: with a better coach, Andrighetto or Hudon would be getting more ice time, and thus contributing to the offense. They should probably take the place of one or both of DSP or Parenteau.

 

[Nynja*]

I don't know who Crimson Skorpion is but after reading this article, he's just another Habs fan who vastly overate this team offensive ability.

Habs:
1 30+ goal scorer, 3 20+ goal scorers, 5 10+ goal scorers (3F2D)
3 skaters with 60+ pts (2F1D), 1 skater with 50 pts (D), 3 skaters with 40+ pts (3F)

Chicago Blackhawks:
0 30+ goal scorers, 3 20+ goal scorers, 6 10+ goal scorers (5F1D)
3 skaters with 60+ pts (3F), 1skater with 50+ pts (F), 2 skaters with 40+ pts (1F1D)

New York Rangers:
1 40+ goal scorer, 2 20+ goal scorers, 7 10+ goal scorers (7F)
2 skaters with 60+ pts, 2 skaters with 50+ pts (2F), 3 skaters with 40+ pts (3F)


NHL.com is stupid and doesnt use the players yearly stats and only the team stats, so Yandle and Vermette werent included when I looked at the numbers. But **** off with "our roster sucks", because the numbers dont support that argument at all.

 

[DAChampion]

Claims:

Since Therrien came in, Pacio has become a 40 goal scorer and Subban has been nominated twice in 3 years for the Norris Trophy. Not only that but Subban is the leading scorer for the Habs in the playoffs for two straight years.

Reality:
1) Subban was an elite dman prior to Therrien, top-10 in the NHL, everyone except Bergevin and Therrien already knew that;

2) Pacioretty scored 47 goals in 116 games in two seasons prior to Therrien, a 33.2 goal pace. He was already a prolific goal scorer. In the three seasons since Therrien came in, he's scoring at a 37.9 goal pace, it's not the spectacular improvement you claim it to be. The offset is mostly due to the Chara hit, which slowed him down.

He's never scored 40 goals by the way.

 

[NoNachoNoParty]

Since Therrien came in, Pacio has become a 40 goal scorer and Subban has been nominated twice in 3 years for the Norris Trophy. Not only that but Subban is the leading scorer for the Habs in the playoffs for two straight years.

The answer is pretty simple: talented players will produce. The problem with Crimson Skorpion, with Lorty, with DAchampion, and with so many others Habs fan, your problem is you vastly overate this team offensive ability.

It has nothing to do with the system in place and we have a HUGE example of that in the last 2 games against Tampa: we dominated each game but the players on the ice couldn't put the puck in the net. Is this because of Therrien's system? No it's because the players are not enough talented to capitalize on all these opportunities.

In the last 2 games, Therrien's sytem completely neutralize Tampa on 5 on 5, the Habs coaching staff has figured out a way to neutralize them. But the Habs don't have the offensive talent to capitalize and take a big lead in the game.

It Has Nothing To Do With Therrien. The Habs are a poor offensive team.

Imo this is on point.

 

[Kriss E]

I don't know who Crimson Skorpion is but after reading this article, he's just another Habs fan who vastly overate this team offensive ability.

Even if you want to say that this team lacks talent, we are producing as much as the Buffalo Sabres have all season. Are you suggesting our offense is as terrible as theirs?
And the PP, I mean come one, under 4% efficiency?? Only the NYI were worse seeing how they didn't score except we have had almost twice as many opportunities as them. Just terrible.

So even if you want to say it's a lack of talent, we're still under performing by quite a lot.

 

[OnTheRun]

Yes it is lack of talent... Lack of coaching talent that is.

 

[Lorty]

Since Therrien came in, Pacio has become a 40 goal scorer and Subban has been nominated twice in 3 years for the Norris Trophy. Not only that but Subban is the leading scorer for the Habs in the playoffs for two straight years.

The answer is pretty simple: talented players will produce. The problem with Crimson Skorpion, with Lorty, with DAchampion, and with so many others Habs fan, your problem is you vastly overate this team offensive ability.

It has nothing to do with the system in place and we have a HUGE example of that in the last 2 games against Tampa: we dominated each game but the players on the ice couldn't put the puck in the net. Is this because of Therrien's system? No it's because the players are not enough talented to capitalize on all these opportunities.

In the last 2 games, Therrien's sytem completely neutralize Tampa on 5 on 5, the Habs coaching staff has figured out a way to neutralize them. But the Habs don't have the offensive talent to capitalize and take a big lead in the game.

It Has Nothing To Do With Therrien. The Habs are a poor offensive team.

To be fair, Pacioretty still got 33 goals in 2011-2012 and he was on pace for 28 goals in 2012-2013 (when Therrien came in). Pacioretty scores a lot of goals on the rush and the system favors him.


Pacioretty and Subban got better because they were given all the minutes and all the opportunities, and they were elite players to begin with. Meanwhile, half the team is limited and restricted in terms of offensive opportunities.


We're not saying the team is a really good offensive one, but it's not as bad as the stats/games tell.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

look at the flowers.....

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Claims:


Reality:
1) Subban was an elite dman prior to Therrien, top-10 in the NHL, everyone except Bergevin and Therrien already knew that;

2) Pacioretty scored 47 goals in 116 games in two seasons prior to Therrien, a 33.2 goal pace. He was already a prolific goal scorer. In the three seasons since Therrien came in, he's scoring at a 37.9 goal pace, it's not the spectacular improvement you claim it to be. The offset is mostly due to the Chara hit, which slowed him down.

He's never scored 40 goals by the way.

You previously said that players can't produce under Therrien's defensive system, Pacio scored 39 and 37 goals a year and Subban has been nominated twice for the Norris trophy.

When Therrien coached Pittsburgh, Crosby and Malkin were Art Ross candidates EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

So why the **** are you saying players can't produce under Therrien defensive system?

Again the answer is super simple: talented players will produce. If you don't have talented players, your team will not score a lot of goals. We have a huge example of that in the 2 games against Tampa, so many scoring opportunties, domination by the Habs on 5 on 5, but the players can't put the puck in the net.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Nope we suck its clear as mud

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

You previously said that players can't produce under Therrien's defensive system, Pacio scored 39 and 37 goals a year and Subban has been nominated twice for the Norris trophy.

When Therrien coached Pittsburgh, Crosby and Malkin were Art Ross candidates EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

So why the **** are you saying players can't produce under Therrien defensive system?

Again the answer is super simple: talented players will produce. If you don't have talented players, your team will not score a lot of goals.

Pacioretty scoring ability has nothing to do with Therrien grind and dump and chase system. Pacioretty is a sniper that can score from anywhere.

Subban twice Norris nominee is based on his personal talent.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Meanwhile, half the team is limited and restricted in terms of offensive opportunities.

No this not true at all, look at the domination in the last 2 games against Tampa and look at all the scoring chances we had, the offensive opportunities were there, players can't complete the task.

 

[Doc McKenna]

You previously said that players can't produce under Therrien's defensive system, Pacio scored 39 and 37 goals a year and Subban has been nominated twice for the Norris trophy.

When Therrien coached Pittsburgh, Crosby and Malkin were Art Ross candidates EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

So why the **** are you saying players can't produce under Therrien defensive system?

Again the answer is super simple: talented players will produce. If you don't have talented players, your team will not score a lot of goals. We have a huge example of that in the 2 games against Tampa, so many scoring opportunties, domination by the Habs on 5 on 5, but the players can't put the puck in the net.

Yes because 2 generational talents is how you should judge all players

 

[Lorty]

You previously said that players can't produce under Therrien's defensive system, Pacio scored 39 and 37 goals a year and Subban has been nominated twice for the Norris trophy.

When Therrien coached Pittsburgh, Crosby and Malkin were Art Ross candidates EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

So why the **** are you saying players can't produce under Therrien defensive system?

Again the answer is super simple: talented players will produce. If you don't have talented players, your team will not score a lot of goals.

Then explain why some players will often struggle in some teams, get traded, and suddenly start being extremely good with their new team?


Some players are simply not used properly, often because of "chemistry" problems or bad coaching decisions.


Pacioretty, Subban, Malkin, Crosby... of course they'll produce. They were given "the right to go" and are given ALL the golden opportunities... aaand they were stars to begin with. The problem lies at the scoring depth of your team and their offensive usage.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Pacioretty is a sniper that can score from anywhere.

Subban twice Norris nominee is based on his personal talent.

This is exactly my point, talented players will produce no matter what. If you don't have enough talented players, your team will not score many goals.