Friedman: On Evander Kane's Future

[Dr Johnny Fever]

That is called toxic leadership.

that is how a childish brat "handles" a disagreement, because he wasn't man enough to address an issue face to face.

Or he did, multiple times in private, before finally having enough and saying, "f*** it".

 

[DJN21]

Here's how a winning organiation does it: The Bruins missed the playoffs for 2 straight years going into last season. They could have said "We are rebuilding. Brad Marchand is going to be a UFA at the end of the year. Let's wait and see how the year goes and deal him if we are out of it."

But instead they said: This guy is a really good player and it's better to have good players on your team and to have continuity and continue to try and compete while you do a rebuild on the fly as opposed to just continuing to sell of anyone who is good so that you can have an endless cycle of suckage for draft picks.

So in September of last year they offered him a long term deal that said "We want you to be part of this team." They squeaked into the playoffs and got bouned in the first.

But this year with Marchand on his new contract they are rolling.

It's a falsehood that "every team does this with EVERY UFA". Does it happen a lot? Yup. Most of the time? Probably. But there is something to be said to keeping good players or at least trying to.

I was told by many BUFF fans that the team was going to be competitive this year. That the D was vastly improved over last year. That Jack and Sam were going to take another step, that they were replacing the worst coach in the league with a great offensive mind who was going to free up the offense and get the D activated. So in Sept. there was every reason to believe that the Sabres (if I were to believe you guys then) were going to be competing for a playoff spot.

Yet the Sabres never offered Kane an extension.

Kinda telling.

Even as a sabres fan this post is entirely accurate and 100% true. Respect.

 

[john716]

And they're not wrong to do so.

Look what the Avs got for Duchene. The price is apparently high for top six forwards right now.

 

[Beerz]

Here's how a winning organiation does it: The Bruins missed the playoffs for 2 straight years going into last season. They could have said "We are rebuilding. Brad Marchand is going to be a UFA at the end of the year. Let's wait and see how the year goes and deal him if we are out of it."

But instead they said: This guy is a really good player and it's better to have good players on your team and to have continuity and continue to try and compete while you do a rebuild on the fly as opposed to just continuing to sell of anyone who is good so that you can have an endless cycle of suckage for draft picks.

So in September of last year they offered him a long term deal that said "We want you to be part of this team." They squeaked into the playoffs and got bouned in the first.

But this year with Marchand on his new contract they are rolling.

It's a falsehood that "every team does this with EVERY UFA". Does it happen a lot? Yup. Most of the time? Probably. But there is something to be said to keeping good players or at least trying to.

I was told by many BUFF fans that the team was going to be competitive this year. That the D was vastly improved over last year. That Jack and Sam were going to take another step, that they were replacing the worst coach in the league with a great offensive mind who was going to free up the offense and get the D activated. So in Sept. there was every reason to believe that the Sabres (if I were to believe you guys then) were going to be competing for a playoff spot.

Yet the Sabres never offered Kane an extension.

Kinda telling.

A lot of what you say is true however...

1) Marchand is a much better hockey player than Kane... that matters.

2) You have to look at what a player brings to the team compared to what his cap hit is going to be. I like a lot of what Kane brings to this team..however he does bring a lot of negatives as well and he is not the type of player I want to be paying 6.5 to 7 mill a year which is probably what he is going to be looking for.
If he wanted his current salary I'd be all for keeping him.

3) It's no secret Evander has had trouble staying healthy outside of this year.

4) We don't know if the Sabres had offered Kane a deal or not.

5) We don't know if Kane is even interested in returning to the Sabres.

I think it's a bit presumptuous to just say " Look .. Sabres aren't resigning Kane... that is pretty telling" in order to cast Kane in a bad light or whatever the reason is.

 

[TS Quint]

Your grasping at straws
You should really gather all of the "facts" before inserting your foot in your mouth.
If you did, you'd see Kane wasn't the problem here........just some advice you really should consider utilizing.

Is Falk typically a problem?

 

[Chainshot]

Is Falk typically a problem?

Considering it was him clipping both Kane and Nolan high that lead to this, it’s on him.

 

[TS Quint]

Considering it was him clipping both Kane and Nolan high that lead to this, it’s on him.

Only if you consider this incident isolated.

 

[Chainshot]

Only if you consider this incident isolated.

Since no one who has watched any other Sabre practices had anything like this to say ever, it seems pretty isolated.

 

[Ace]

Only if you consider this incident isolated.

Since this is the only one we’ve ever heard of what are we supposed to consider it?

 

[nickdawg95]

what could Kane +A. Nylander get us ?

 

[Djp]

Here's how a winning organiation does it: The Bruins missed the playoffs for 2 straight years going into last season. They could have said "We are rebuilding. Brad Marchand is going to be a UFA at the end of the year. Let's wait and see how the year goes and deal him if we are out of it."

But instead they said: This guy is a really good player and it's better to have good players on your team and to have continuity and continue to try and compete while you do a rebuild on the fly as opposed to just continuing to sell of anyone who is good so that you can have an endless cycle of suckage for draft picks.

So in September of last year they offered him a long term deal that said "We want you to be part of this team." They squeaked into the playoffs and got bouned in the first.

But this year with Marchand on his new contract they are rolling.

It's a falsehood that "every team does this with EVERY UFA". Does it happen a lot? Yup. Most of the time? Probably. But there is something to be said to keeping good players or at least trying to.

I was told by many BUFF fans that the team was going to be competitive this year. That the D was vastly improved over last year. That Jack and Sam were going to take another step, that they were replacing the worst coach in the league with a great offensive mind who was going to free up the offense and get the D activated. So in Sept. there was every reason to believe that the Sabres (if I were to believe you guys then) were going to be competing for a playoff spot.

Yet the Sabres never offered Kane an extension.

Kinda telling.

Interesting revisionist history.....

Nobody knows if there have been extension talks.

Buffalo first had to sign Eichel then wait on what the cap will be around in 18/19

Buffali changed GMs..he might have a different opinion than prior one on Kane.

Right now buffalo has just Kane as player to be a UFA that has large value.

The problem wit buffalo ..offense production at ES didn't go up and the new staff Fd up a top PP unit

Buffali fire sales happened in 2013-2015 where they moved UFA to be in Poms, vanek, Miller and others.

This was after seeing numerous players walk for nothing in 2007-2009.

They made hockey trades for kane/bogo, ROR, as Scandella, with another likely happening in 2018.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Interesting revisionist history.....

Nobody knows if there have been extension talks.

Buffalo first had to sign Eichel then wait on what the cap will be around in 18/19

Buffali changed GMs..he might have a different opinion than prior one on Kane.

Right now buffalo has just Kane as player to be a UFA that has large value.

The problem wit buffalo ..offense production at ES didn't go up and the new staff Fd up a top PP unit

Buffali fire sales happened in 2013-2015 where they moved UFA to be in Poms, vanek, Miller and others.

This was after seeing numerous players walk for nothing in 2007-2009.

They made hockey trades for kane/bogo, ROR, as Scandella, with another likely happening in 2018.

Your GM: "Well aware of Evander's status, and his desires. Right now we're not focusing on extensions. We're looking at improving the team. For the most part, an expiring contract like that, you're bringing in a future asset. The team acquiring him is going for a Stanley Cup run."

Certainly sounds like he doesn't want to resign him doesn't? Now of course it's possible that he earlier made an offer and Kane said he doesn't want to resign. That might be what he means by "his desires". But definitely doesn't sound like he's making an all out push to keep him.

A lot of the rest of your post seems like nonsequitars, but I'll try to respond.

1) Yeah Buffalo changed GMs... and hired Botterill in May. I'm not sure what your point is. That he has a different opinion of Kane and doesn't want him? Really? Cause that's what I've been saying. Thanks for agreeing with me.

2) I realize that BUFF's offense is bad. Which is why it's pretty telling that they are willing to deal away their 2nd best goal scorer. SOME teams decide to keep those. Either BUFF is dumb (which I don't think), Kane says there's no chance he's resigning (definitely possible) or the GM doesn't think Kane is that good (also possible).

3) Not sure what your post about prior selling of players is saying. Nor do I understand your point about the hockey trades. Can't agree or disagree with it as is.

Look, as a division rival I WANT you guys to get rid of any good players. It's good for my team. Now if the only 2 choices are lose the player for nothing or get some assets... then absolutely you should get some assets.

My main point is that I think there are some in your fanbase (and it's not solely specific to your fanbase, it's fairly common on this site given its "prospect" focus) who think that what is behind door #3 is always better than the player they already have. I just think that's a bad way to run a team. While picks and prospects are certainly nice and necessary, at the same time, an under-30 performing goal scorer is going to help your team win more than a late 1st and a B prospect.

But good to have a spirted back and forth.

 

[Yatzhee]

Your GM: "Well aware of Evander's status, and his desires. Right now we're not focusing on extensions. We're looking at improving the team. For the most part, an expiring contract like that, you're bringing in a future asset. The team acquiring him is going for a Stanley Cup run."

Certainly sounds like he doesn't want to resign him doesn't? Now of course it's possible that he earlier made an offer and Kane said he doesn't want to resign. That might be what he means by "his desires". But definitely doesn't sound like he's making an all out push to keep him.

A lot of the rest of your post seems like nonsequitars, but I'll try to respond.

1) Yeah Buffalo changed GMs... and hired Botterill in May. I'm not sure what your point is. That he has a different opinion of Kane and doesn't want him? Really? Cause that's what I've been saying. Thanks for agreeing with me.

2) I realize that BUFF's offense is bad. Which is why it's pretty telling that they are willing to deal away their 2nd best goal scorer. SOME teams decide to keep those. Either BUFF is dumb (which I don't think), Kane says there's no chance he's resigning (definitely possible) or the GM doesn't think Kane is that good (also possible).

3) Not sure what your post about prior selling of players is saying. Nor do I understand your point about the hockey trades. Can't agree or disagree with it as is.

Look, as a division rival I WANT you guys to get rid of any good players. It's good for my team. Now if the only 2 choices are lose the player for nothing or get some assets... then absolutely you should get some assets.

My main point is that I think there are some in your fanbase (and it's not solely specific to your fanbase, it's fairly common on this site given its "prospect" focus) who think that what is behind door #3 is always better than the player they already have. I just think that's a bad way to run a team. While picks and prospects are certainly nice and necessary, at the same time, an under-30 performing goal scorer is going to help your team win more than a late 1st and a B prospect.

But good to have a spirted back and forth.

None of that truly matters.
In the end, does a GM see Kane as a short term fit for a cup run, is that GM willing to pay a price for that fit?

History says yes.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Kane isnt as good as Marchand. He's certainly not an irreplaceable player like Marchand. Not all 30 goal scorers are created equal, some only score 30 goals in contract seasons. There's like 10 people in Buffalo that think Kane is that good and you shouldn't take those opinions seriously. But I like the "this is how a winning organization does things", like how they didn't wait for Eichel and signed him already. Goes its just wait and see now, huh?

 

[JuniorNelson]

That is called toxic leadership.

that is how a childish brat "handles" a disagreement, because he wasn't man enough to address an issue face to face.

It's not toxic in hockey. It is childish. Hockey is a boy's game. Players are boys. These players were dicks.

I doubt Byfuglien was afraid to face Kane. What is Kane going to do, smash his face against Buff's fists until Buff gives up?

 

[Cuphead]

It's not toxic in hockey. It is childish. Hockey is a boy's game. Players are boys. These players were dicks.

I doubt Byfuglien was afraid to face Kane. What is Kane going to do, smash his face against Buff's fists until Buff gives up?

let me preface this by saying that i am a military man; i lead for a living. and unfortunately, i see this all the time.

its not that he was physically afraid of him, but he didnt have the leadership and character to take a young man by the collar, and address his flaws as a professional, face to face. its extremely common to see a "leader" that isnt willing to have the tough talks. to then take it further, and take swipes at them behind their back, thats toxic, he solved nothing.

admittedly, i had to go back and look at the details of this incident again. (i wasnt sure how they got his track suit off him, after a team meeting.)

if byfuglien snuck into the locker room, stole kanes clothes, and threw them in the shower, then 100% that is ineffective. any message he was trying to send would be lost.

if they walked up to kane told him why he was wrong, and then threw it in the shower. its a bit of a different story. maybe you could have motivated him that way, maybe.

There’s a standard that everyone needs to live up to,” teammate Blake Wheeler said Thursday. “We’re professionals, we make a lot of money. And we’re expected to uphold a certain standard. That’s the code we live by. That’s just the way it is. If you don’t like it then there’s other places to go. This is the way we do things.”

Byfuglien, while not directly addressing his wardrobe-soaking maneuver, said: “We’re just a tight group. It is what it is. That’s just among us. Things we’ve just got to handle ourselves.”

1) not professional.
2) you didnt handle anything.

 

[Cuphead]

Or he did, multiple times in private, before finally having enough and saying, "**** it".

you think he violated team rules multiple times without being suspended?

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

you think he violated team rules multiple times without being suspended?

I think neither of us knows how much shit gets buried without us knowing, on any team. You pretending to know is nothing more than arrogance on your part.

 

[Dano85]

Here's how a winning organiation does it: The Bruins missed the playoffs for 2 straight years going into last season. They could have said "We are rebuilding. Brad Marchand is going to be a UFA at the end of the year. Let's wait and see how the year goes and deal him if we are out of it."

But instead they said: This guy is a really good player and it's better to have good players on your team and to have continuity and continue to try and compete while you do a rebuild on the fly as opposed to just continuing to sell of anyone who is good so that you can have an endless cycle of suckage for draft picks.

So in September of last year they offered him a long term deal that said "We want you to be part of this team." They squeaked into the playoffs and got bouned in the first.

But this year with Marchand on his new contract they are rolling.

It's a falsehood that "every team does this with EVERY UFA". Does it happen a lot? Yup. Most of the time? Probably. But there is something to be said to keeping good players or at least trying to.

I was told by many BUFF fans that the team was going to be competitive this year. That the D was vastly improved over last year. That Jack and Sam were going to take another step, that they were replacing the worst coach in the league with a great offensive mind who was going to free up the offense and get the D activated. So in Sept. there was every reason to believe that the Sabres (if I were to believe you guys then) were going to be competing for a playoff spot.

Yet the Sabres never offered Kane an extension.

Kinda telling.

Sabres look like that have 25M in cap space next season roughly per cap friendly and have 11 RFA/UFAs on the roster. Kane likely would eat up a 1/4 of that. They have no goalies signed (Ulmark in AHL, Lehner RFA). Could be part of the reason he has not been extended. Do they have an internal cap too?

 

[Cuphead]

I think neither of us knows how much **** gets buried without us knowing, on any team. You pretending to know is nothing more than arrogance on your part.

what exactly did i pretend to know?

i know that a grown man threw another grown man's clothes in a shower, because he violated the teams dress code. and he is being applauded for his "leadership" for it.

how could he have addressed it "multiple times in private" if:

A) kane was never suspended for violating the teams dress code.
B) it all happened on the same day.

now, if you have more information, please let me know, and ill reconsider. but as far as i can tell, we have 2 dudes that just didn't like each other. except one of them was supposed to be a team leader, and he's running around stealing clothes and throwing them in water.

and yet this is somehow supposed to be all negative for kane, because he's the bad guy, and we don't know what else happened in the locker room, and it decreases his trade value? who's pretending to know what now? (thats a rhetorical question)

 

[John Matthews]

Ho would anyone know how valuable he is to a playoff team? He's never had to play past early April??

Last year Rutherford traded for a guy who is a lesser tier player in Hainsey, yet Hainsey won a cup playing pretty ok defense. Not everyone who hasn't made the playoffs is a choke artist, some just don't play for good teams, I doubt anyone would say Hall is gonna be terrible once he sniffs the playoffs.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

what exactly did i pretend to know?

i know that a grown man threw another grown man's clothes in a shower, because he violated the teams dress code. and he is being applauded for his "leadership" for it.

how could he have addressed it "multiple times in private" if:

A) kane was never suspended for violating the teams dress code.
B) it all happened on the same day.

now, if you have more information, please let me know, and ill reconsider. but as far as i can tell, we have 2 dudes that just didn't like each other. except one of them was supposed to be a team leader, and he's running around stealing clothes and throwing them in water.

and yet this is somehow supposed to be all negative for kane, because he's the bad guy, and we don't know what else happened in the locker room, and it decreases his trade value? who's pretending to know what now? (thats a rhetorical question)

You've decided that only if Kane had been previously suspended by his team could he ever have been a problem to his teammates. That's presumptuous on your part with absolutely nothing to support it. Plenty of players on the same team don't like each other and it never gets out in public and nobody gets suspended. There could have been plenty of prior issues we don't know about. I never said there was, only that there could have been and you cannot blame Byfuglien as if you know what had or had not previously transpired.

So, we are faced with questioning whether a player with previous issues (Kane) was at fault for the shower incident, or a team leader (Byfuglien) with no know issues of being a troublemaker. Maybe it was all Byfuglien's fault, but you have no basis for saying it was. And given each player's known public persona, Kane is gonna lose the battle of public opinion every time. Since then we can add to that the NBA all star game incident in Buffalo (at the bare minimum) and Kane's reputation for being trouble to his own team once again takes a hit.

The sooner some butt hurt Buffalo fans (not all Buffalo fans) can understand that, the sooner they will understand the sentiment many here are expressing. I'm sure some team will likely still offer a first for him as a rental. But to pretend Kane's history will have no impact on the demand for him is just naive. And anyone who tries to pretend that his time in Buffalo has somehow rehabilitated his poor reputation is not being honest.

 

[Cuphead]

You've decided that only if Kane had been previously suspended by his team could he ever have been a problem to his teammates. That's presumptuous on your part with absolutely nothing to support it. Plenty of players on the same team don't like each other and it never gets out in public and nobody gets suspended. There could have been plenty of prior issues we don't know about. I never said there was, only that there could have been and you cannot blame Byfuglien as if you know what had or had not previously transpired.

So, we are faced with questioning whether a player with previous issues (Kane) was at fault for the shower incident, or a team leader (Byfuglien) with no know issues of being a troublemaker. Maybe it was all Byfuglien's fault, but you have no basis for saying it was. And given each player's known public persona, Kane is gonna lose the battle of public opinion every time. Since then we can add to that the NBA all star game incident in Buffalo (at the bare minimum) and Kane's reputation for being trouble to his own team once again takes a hit.

The sooner some butt hurt Buffalo fans (not all Buffalo fans) can understand that, the sooner they will understand the sentiment many here are expressing. I'm sure some team will likely still offer a first for him as a rental. But to pretend Kane's history will have no impact on the demand for him is just naive. And anyone who tries to pretend that his time in Buffalo has somehow rehabilitated his poor reputation is not being honest.

no, we're not on the same page.

my comments were on a specific situation, im not arguing if kane deserved it. because it doesnt matter.

im arguing that the leadership displayed, and the actions taken were wrong, and ineffective.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

no, we're not on the same page.

my comments were on a specific situation, im not arguing if kane deserved it. because it doesnt matter.

im arguing that the leadership displayed, and the actions taken were wrong, and ineffective.

Well, if you want to narrowly focus on the shower incident, I'd still make the case that at that point in time, Byf was not attempting to work out a teammate squabble anymore. He'd had enough and effectively told Kane to GTFO. Just because Kane had not been suspended before that does not mean Byf was wrong in his actions.

 

[Flyerfan52]

no, we're not on the same page.

my comments were on a specific situation, im not arguing if kane deserved it. because it doesnt matter.

im arguing that the leadership displayed, and the actions taken were wrong, and ineffective.

I take it you never heard about the nightclub/restaurant incidedents in Wpg. all 3 years. The management/teammates tried to squelch those stories but finally E Kane breaking the dress code & announcing season ending elective surgery brought a simmering kettle to a boil.
Buffalo paid big time for an IR player to help them try to win the McDavid pick but were again the bridesmaid.