Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. V

[MS]

well juolevi was shy in camp. we all saw that. it would not be at all surprising if in the first 13 games in the ahl he was also shy especially if he also had a nagging knee injury as well as coming off back surgery. i would not expect the guy to have turned it around that fast from where he was at camp if he was going to turn it around.

so either that play in the ahl was because he is shy and he will bust, or it is because he was coming off back surgery and trying to minimize contact.

considering that he was not nearly as shy the season before in liiga games, i think there's a chance it is the latter and he turns it around. otoh, there are numerous warning signs going way back that this player has his head up his ass.

which is what we are all waiting to find out.

What I saw in Utica was consistent with what I saw in London and that player was nowhere near deserving a callup on merit.

 

[krutovsdonut]

You genuinely believe that Benning was saying that he doesn't think that Juolevi could make the Canucks, and is talking about him coming in and not looking out of place in a training camp?

to me it's literally the generic comment you make about a highly touted prospect you don't expect to make the team.

i actually recall that interview around the time it happened, and it seemed then like he was protecting the player against undue expectations of the fanbase that thought lidstrom 2.0 was coming in september. i took it to mean that he was not expected to make the team first year but might if he made a big jump.

 

[Pavel96]

so, to summarize, the fact benning answered a question about camp without mentioning camp makes it "fabricating" for pastor to mention camp when paraphrasing benning's response?

hookay. and they said scholasticism was dead. i'd better dust of my thomas aquinas for summer time hfboards debating dialectic or i am going to get my ass handed to me.

lol, if you read that quote or listen specifically to what is said and you think the question is about olli making camp, and not having a shot to make the team next season - what can I say.

For you to suggest that I am on here head hunting a specific poster, because I am bored of all reasons, and then go on at me for personal attacks is as ridiculous lol. This wasn't a post praising the EP pick. But one taking what was said, on video, completely out of context and rewriting it to reflect a point of view that was then argued for multiple posts there afterwards.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Did you seriously bring up Thomas Aquinas on HF? Lol

Aquinas is not to be taken seriously by a modern thinker. We'll see if the mods are willing let you devolve the forum to a religious debate. My sense is that they won't.

i brought up scholasticism because we seem to debating how many juolevis can dance on the blade of a skate here.

 

[MS]

so, to summarize, the fact benning answered a question about camp without mentioning camp makes it "fabricating" for pastor to mention camp when paraphrasing benning's response?

hookay. and they said scholasticism was dead. i'd better dust of my thomas aquinas for summer time hfboards debating dialectic or i am going to get my ass handed to me.

Are you serious here?

The question was *clearly* about Juolevi making the team to start the season and happened to include the phrase ‘players coming to camp’. It was not even remotely about training camp and Benning’s answer is clearly about him making the team in the regular season.

The mental gymnastics here get more and more incredible.

 

[Hoglander]

Disagree, don't wait for him to fail. Just trade him now.
He isn't in the teams plan with Hughes there and it's not like it's hard to find a 2nd pairing LHD to fill in once Hughes is ready and Edler retires.

Canucks do not need Juolevi. Trade him.

Juolevi sucks, so I want him gone while he's still worth something/anything. Whats his value now anyways, a 3rd? 4th? Someone should make a poll on the main boards lol, I bet it gets ugly.

However, I don't think quality 2nd pairing dmen grow on trees. The cost to trade for a good one would be sky high, otherwise its leftover overpaid crap like Myers. Maybe Jimbo can pull a Jimbo on another team with age gaps that are looking to excelerate their rebuild on the fly, by acquiring an older dman prospect that is further along... but who am I kidding?

 

[Javaman]

i brought up scholasticism because we seem to debating how many juolevis can dance on the blade of a skate here.

Well, I suppose I'll agree with your dancing angels analogy if you'll agree it's an apt description of the arguments of Benning's defenders.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Well, I suppose I'll agree with your dancing angels analogy if you'll agree it's an apt description of the arguments of Benning's defenders.

well in this particular instance i stumble in here from my blissful summer hiatus to find a ridiculous game of gotcha by a few regulars going medieval on pastor using debating tactics that would make a scholastic blush. but maybe i should be quoting hawthorne.

 

[racerjoe]

Lets just trying looking at this look at this logically... I know it is going to be hard.

Lets just say the quote was meant to be at Camp. That Joulevi was not going to look out of place there. If that happens what happens? What did we do with McCaan and Virtanen? Oh thats right they make the team.

So by going on the assumption that it was meant to be Camp... we could also assume it is meant to be make the team.

That is as honest an argument as one can make when trying to say Camp.

 

[Pavel96]

Lets just trying looking at this look at this logically... I know it is going to be hard.

Lets just say the quote was meant to be at Camp. That Joulevi was not going to look out of place there. If that happens what happens? What did we do with McCaan and Virtanen? Oh thats right they make the team.

So by going on the assumption that it was meant to be Camp... we could also assume it is meant to be make the team.

That is as honest an argument as one can make when trying to say Camp.

Wait- is this 4D chess?

 

[racerjoe]

Wait- is this 4D chess?

6D Checkers...

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Exactly. It just bothered me weeks ago when the word "camp" was actually inserted into what appeared to be a fabricated quote of Benning. I watched the video, Benning did not say 'camp' so why insert it with quotations into Benning's statement?

Especially when all it does is imply what you wrote - that you picked a long term project, as the first dman selected in the draft, and then compared him to Nicklas Lidstrom. Who just happened to play 80 games as a 21 year old in what can only be imagined as a more dangerous time to start your NHL career (injury wise for a non physical dman whose only apparent setback is his lack of strength). Lidstrom also was a +36 with 60 points that year but, he actually is Nicklas Lidstrom, so you know there's that.

In the post draft interview JB states that OJ needs to get physically stronger, but because he has good hockey smarts, would not look out of place at "camp"...POM.

The word camp was inserted ,but I should have used brackets instead of quotation marks...If I intended to mislead, there would not have been quotation marks around the word camp...and the fact I posted the quote it with the video..makes that pretty bloody obvious.

He obviously didnt say camp, but its obvious that Benning was inferring to it after 'a summer of training'...

 

[Javaman]

well in this particular instance i stumble in here from my blissful summer hiatus to find a ridiculous game of gotcha by a few regulars going medieval on pastor using debating tactics that would make a scholastic blush. but maybe i should be quoting hawthorne.

Yeah, cuz posters calling out POM is what's really wrong with HFCanucks.

 

[Pavel96]

In the post draft interview JB states that OJ needs to get physically stronger, but because he has good hockey smarts, would not look out of place at "camp"...POM.

The word camp was inserted ,but I should have used brackets instead of quotation marks...If I intended to mislead, there would not have been quotation marks around the word camp...and the fact I posted the quote it with the video..makes that pretty bloody obvious.

He obviously didnt say camp, but its obvious that Benning was inferring to it after 'a summer of training'...

No, as I and multiple posters above stated, the question was about if he could make the team, not camp. But inserting "camp" you implied he would not look out of place at camp, where as Benning was answering a question about if he would look out of place competing for a roster spot next season. Completely different to most posters on here, but just keep it going.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Lets just trying looking at this look at this logically... I know it is going to be hard.

Lets just say the quote was meant to be at Camp. That Joulevi was not going to look physically ready there. If that happens what happens? Oh thats right he doesn't make the team.

So by going on the assumption that it was meant to be Camp... we can also assume it is to try and make the team.

That is as honest an argument as one can make when trying to say Camp.

FTFY...

 

[Pavel96]

FTFY...

There you are, changing quotes again. I am joking this time, but not really.

 

[krutovsdonut]

No, as I and multiple posters above stated, the question was about if he could make the team, not camp. But inserting "camp" you implied he would not look out of place at camp, where as Benning was answering a question about if he would look out of place competing for a roster spot next season. Completely different to most posters on here, but just keep it going.

well, the question was whether he could make the team [at camp].

which the journalist asking the question built into the question with the reference to the desire of prospects to make the team [at camp]

and benning answered the question entirely about the possibility of making the team [at camp] rather than speculating on how juolevi might play after he made the team [after camp]

but do go on. it's very [campy]

 

[Pavel96]

well, the question was whether he could make the team [at camp].

which the journalist asking the question built into the question with the reference to the desire of prospects to make the team [at camp]

and benning answered the question entirely about the possibility of making the team [at camp] rather than speculating on how juolevi might play after he made the team [after camp]

but do go on. it's very [campy]

You seem to have a good understanding of hawthorne and Thomas Aquinas, but not of the speakings of the great Jim Benning. He is a complex guy to understand, apparently.

 

[Pavel96]

well, the question was whether he could make the team [at camp].

which the journalist asking the question built into the question with the reference to the desire of prospects to make the team [at camp]

and benning answered the question entirely about the possibility of making the team [at camp] rather than speculating on how juolevi might play after he made the team [after camp]

but do go on. it's very [campy]

And to the reporter's question, Benning opens his answer with "Well he's got the hockey sense to step in and play, like the pace of the NHL game is not going to affect him. "

So by "pace of the NHL game" he means pace of the NHL game "at camp" with some players who will never play in the NHL, not the actual pace of an NHL game which would be played during the season, you know after he made the team.

Might as well just copy that phrase - "camp" so it can be pasted in where the narrative requires.

 

[krutovsdonut]

And to the reporter's question, Benning opens his answer with "Well he's got the hockey sense to step in and play, like the pace of the NHL game is not going to affect him. "

So by "pace of the NHL game" he means pace of the NHL game "at camp" with some players who will never play in the NHL, not the actual pace of an NHL game which would be played during the season, you know after he made the team.

Might as well just copy that phrase - "camp" so it can be pasted in where the narrative requires.

the fact he has cited one attribute that would enable juolevi to handle one aspect of the nhl game does not imply he said he has all the attributes or that he was not talking about this in the context of juolevi's chance of making the team [at camp].

forget aquinas, that's a basic rule of thinking that goes back either to aristotle. i can't be bothered to look it up because it's the kind of foundational logical reasoning that is the basis of rational discourse and anyone who can't grasp it is not worth having a respectful discussion with so i am not wasting my time for you. the fact you cannot reason properly causes me to again reach back by way of comparison to a certain pedantic school of medieval philosophers that were hidebound by their faith, as a telling analogy for the way you are arguing this and your buddies are egging you on. it is like a bunch of 12th century monks getting all biblical on a heretic in here with their crappy arguments except you guys do not have the benefit of the doubt i would give some poor rickety bald dude perennially suffering from a poor diet, half cut on beer all the time and plagued by an illiberal education and a perceived need to defend the faith. that dude had good intentions for arguing like a fool. your arguments are that bad with no excuses. have a nice day. maybe take some time away from hfboard and go on a [camping] trip.

 

[Pavel96]

the fact he has cited one attribute that would enable juolevi to handle one aspect of the nhl game does not imply he said he has all the attributes or that he was not talking about this in the context of juolevi's chance of making the team [at camp].

forget aquinas, that's a basic rule of thinking that goes back either to aristotle. i can't be bothered to look it up because it's the kind of foundational logical reasoning that is the basis of rational discourse and anyone who can't grasp it is not worth having a respectful discussion with so i am not wasting my time for you. the fact you cannot reason properly causes me to again reach back by way of comparison to a certain pedantic school of medieval philosophers that were hidebound by their faith, as a telling analogy for the way you are arguing this and your buddies are egging you on. it is like a bunch of 12th century monks getting all biblical on a heretic in here with their crappy arguments except you guys do not have the benefit of the doubt i would give some poor rickety bald dude perennially suffering from a poor diet, half cut on beer all the time and plagued by an illiberal education and a perceived need to defend the faith. that dude had good intentions for arguing like a fool. your arguments are that bad with no excuses. have a nice day. maybe take some time away from hfboard and go on a [camping] trip.

He's speaking about an aspect of the NHL game, not the NHL pace at a camp. I brought that up as that would take place during the season, after camp- which directly contradicts your previous post. He also cites multiple qualities and how they positively translate to the NHL game, not to his camp performance. The only negative he brings up is his strength, but he makes sure to imply that this could be improved enough over the summer - making the possibility of him actually making the team a real one.

Why is it so hard to admit that a GM thought his #5 overall pick and first dman selected could in fact have a realistic shot of making the NHL in his d1?

Riding away on your high horse that you rode in here on, so valiantly. You actually have the audacity to write "Don't make personal attacks" and then waste time with that last, laughable paragraph that clearly shows the hypocrisy of your first post. Lol it's funny that the rudest poster to me in 4 years, initially came at me with "don't make personal attacks" and then proceeds to attack not only myself but all of my "buddies". Good times. Team tank 2020!

 

[lawrence]

meanwhile, i can't wait to see if he stinks in camp this year or finally has his act together.

do you want him to stink it up? simple yes no answer is fine.

 

[crowi]

Ducks fan and Finnish coming in peace here. I really hope Juolevi breaks out of his slump and finally develops a spine and balls. He had a decent run with TPS in Finland, however the swag he has (as a person) doesn't translate on ice and I have to wonder if it ever will.
However the reason I come here to read is the unreal, UNREAL, amount of spinning that some dudes who think Benning is a good GM go through.
It's great entertainment to a random fan - must not feel the same for Canucks fan. At some point arguing becomes pointless.

 

[Hit the post]

Ducks fan and Finnish coming in peace here. I really hope Juolevi breaks out of his slump and finally develops a spine and balls. He had a decent run with TPS in Finland, however the swag he has (as a person) doesn't translate on ice and I have to wonder if it ever will.
However the reason I come here to read is the unreal, UNREAL, amount of spinning that some dudes who think Benning is a good GM go through.
It's great entertainment to a random fan - must not feel the same for Canucks fan. At some point arguing becomes pointless.

Can't be a true Finn if his "Sisu" is lacking.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Ducks fan and Finnish coming in peace here. I really hope Juolevi breaks out of his slump and finally develops a spine and balls. He had a decent run with TPS in Finland, however the swag he has (as a person) doesn't translate on ice and I have to wonder if it ever will.
However the reason I come here to read is the unreal, UNREAL, amount of spinning that some dudes who think Benning is a good GM go through.
It's great entertainment to a random fan - must not feel the same for Canucks fan. At some point arguing becomes pointless.

I'm glad you're managing to stay entertained through your visit here. I feel the entertainment value of this board too often goes unrecognized. It's good to get some affirmation for a change.

Thanks