Confirmed with Link: Olli Jokinen 1yr 2.5M

[Preds Partisan]

If you think a damn fruit basket and welcome Wagon are the only things that stand between us and signing FAs then I don't even know what to say.

Nashville is not some lost city that players have never been to or seen. They've played here or know people that have. It's not hard to find out about a city, and I don't think Poile kissing ass makes a bit of difference.

In related news, here's something to feel warm and fuzzy about:

https://www.twitter.com/MrsJoki/status/484713291223019521

O.K., it's not a fruit basket, just some flowers, and it was after the fact, but there's the proof that Poile reads these boards.

 

[NSH615]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=68856

This was the odds of winning the draft lottery this year granted there are going to be changes next year.

Picking 11th the Preds had a 1.5 % chance of winning the lottery this past draft. Next season lets imagine the team struggles and has the 3rd pick now thats a streach there are 5 teams in the league worse now but lets say they finish third from the bottom the chances increase to 14.2 % for the McDavid bonanza. Not to mention the pain of enduring a pitiful year to get to that point.

I swear im ridiculed for being negitive but this is about the worst case of fan support I can imagine. Dismissing a chance to make the team better for a 14% chance to win the lottery. That blows my mind.

It's not dismissing a chance to make the team better for a 14% chance at a lottery pick, it is dismissing a chance to make the team better because they don't want Chicago to end with that 1st or 3rd overall pick (or 9th overall with Sharp) that we would have had. Giving Chicago a high pick is the last thing this team needs to do. They will be fizzling in the next few years, we don't need to give them something that will help stop that.

 

[Phenomenon]

Did not see this coming. I was expecting him to go to the Oilers. The price for The Great Pumpkinhead is not bad, but he is not the answer for Preds' center forward needs.

 

[Enoch]

I am stumped because I am only about three years into really being a hockey fan - so I need help from Enoch and the rest of the gang that says it's Poile's fault UFAs don't want to come here, or players wont take Nashville off of their NTC lists.

Guys - please name the GM that would be better. OR provide an example of a GM in a similar small hockey market/no media presence/no deep playoff history that landed a big name in free agency.

I can read and re-read all of the Poile should be accountable for the lack of results. What I would like to read is who are the alternatives, or is there a track record out there from a team in a similar situation having dramatically different results that forms the basis of your logic?

It is not my job to hand pick the Predators GM nor is it my job to figure out where David Poile is "failing" or "struggling". As many others have pointed, I cannot truly know what Poile is or isn't doing behind the scenes. Fair enough. All I can do is judge him based on the results of his tenure and the comments he himself makes. I am doing so. Railing for me and others to propose a better plan/etc is a straw man argument being used to deflect away from the criticisms being handed out on Poile.
"I don't like what you are saying so .... " Insert response claiming I should just be the GM or present my GM plan. Debates don't work that way. If you don't like what I say, debate the argument, not your feelings about the argument (that is, if you truly want to debate - feel free to express emotions, this is a message board after all).

To answer partially:

I think the results of David Poile's career speak for themselves. I do not need to elaborate or go into to much detail. A quick google search will tell you all you need to know about his playoff record, offer sheet and negotiating history, and difficulty obtaining offensive stalwarts.

As for his negotiating tactics specifically. Look only to the past few weeks to enlighten yourself on his mindset on talking with players and their representatives. I can assure you, I can think of no other GM in any sport that has pubicly admitted that multiple free agents (I can think of three) had to call him to get his attention, that he is too busy to meet with people during an exclusive negotiating period this year ... maybe a phone call would occur (there is no coincidence at the record in terms of money and fast paced nature of this free agency), that he wouldn't sell a city to a player but they could always call him ... At the very least, these comments aren't helpful and paint us negatively.

This post is coming off very negative, so let me back track and say a few things. Poile has a great hockey mind. He acquires defensive and goaltending talent at an exceptionally high rate. He has drafted multiple defensive superstars - Scott Stevens, Shea weber, Ryan Suter .... As well as goalies, Olaf kolzig and pekka rinne. He is good at finding scouts and organizational talent.

He is a solid GM. He is not a championship GM. He is also passive and patient by nature for better or worse.

Lastly, to name a few players that were traded to smaller markets, off the top of my head quickly - spezza and seguin to Dallas, carter to Columbus. I would need to do more research and have your criteria to define small markets bc some teams have had a poor team with poor attendance, others have a big market but poor attendance good team ... It's a jumble.

Edit: solid response Byrd. Also, I would say that if Poile was truly able to fill his own self appointed goals, this team very well could win a cup. The problem is, he fails to meet them ... I.e, we struggle to get that offensive piece year after year (this is not necessarily unique to the Predators although it does feel like a situation we find ourselves in annually in comparison to other teams).

 

[bdub24]

Thanks Byrddog - if we had someone even approaching the marketing/results perfect storm that is Crosby, I can see how any GM would look like a genius here in Nashville.

My perception is that Pittsburgh is a pretty solid/traditional hockey market - so it's weird they sunk so low to get him via draft. Given the temperature in these rooms - I think there would be suicides on Broadway if the Preds ever sunk low enough to qualify to pick so highly.

 

[Byrddog]

It's not dismissing a chance to make the team better for a 14% chance at a lottery pick, it is dismissing a chance to make the team better because they don't want Chicago to end with that 1st or 3rd overall pick (or 9th overall with Sharp) that we would have had. Giving Chicago a high pick is the last thing this team needs to do. They will be fizzling in the next few years, we don't need to give them something that will help stop that.

I can see that point and it is a valid one. I think the Preds must address there needs at this point rather than worry about the long term Chicago situation. It is becoming more critical that top players need to be brought in to attract more top talent. Neal was a start they need to double down and bring another in. And not a Vinny on a terrible career ending contract. Waiting on the kids in the pipeline to fill the positions only worsens the situation. Right now Weber and Rinne are in there prime both will drop off in 3 or 4 years. This removes one selling tool to F/A's and other players to want to be here. So I can't see how the GM be it Poile or someone else just glides along. I have to think Poile is still working on a big deal somehow some way to land a nice piece.

 

[PredsV82]

No way I'd give up our 2015 1st, the draft is stacked with talent and right now I think we'll be in the top 10.

Im sorry but thats ridiculous logic.

If we get Partick Sharp(who is signed for 3 more years) we are a playoff team and that 1st round pick will be in the high teens or twenties.

I would move Wilson, our first, and even Forsberg for Sharp

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I can see that point and it is a valid one. I think the Preds must address there needs at this point rather than worry about the long term Chicago situation. It is becoming more critical that top players need to be brought in to attract more top talent. Neal was a start they need to double down and bring another in. And not a Vinny on a terrible career ending contract. Waiting on the kids in the pipeline to fill the positions only worsens the situation. Right now Weber and Rinne are in there prime both will drop off in 3 or 4 years. This removes one selling tool to F/A's and other players to want to be here. So I can't see how the GM be it Poile or someone else just glides along. I have to think Poile is still working on a big deal somehow some way to land a nice piece.

One would hope. Would love it if it was Staal.

 

[bdub24]

Thanks Enoch -

I really wasn't meaning to address anything having to do with feelings or emotions. I was looking for some evidence that anyone in Poile's shoes has done better. Dallas doesn't strike me as a small market (nothing about that city strikes me as small), but Columbus certainly does (Carter is a good name). I will have to search around. I wasn't even thinking of contemporary examples, so thanks for calling that one out.

He is literally not a championship GM (since we have no Cup here), but I guess few are with all the repeat champs there have been lately. I can see what you mean by the passive comments, he always seems to come across so milqtoast.

Still would like to see some other names from you and the gang on who would be a better fit for us. I think changing up for the sake of new blood is viable (if it's logical for Trotz, its logical for the GM too), but just don't know who would do a demonstrably better job (assuming the reins are just handed over to Fenton).

 

[Byrddog]

Thanks Byrddog - if we had someone even approaching the marketing/results perfect storm that is Crosby, I can see how any GM would look like a genius here in Nashville.

My perception is that Pittsburgh is a pretty solid/traditional hockey market - so it's weird they sunk so low to get him via draft. Given the temperature in these rooms - I think there would be suicides on Broadway if the Preds ever sunk low enough to qualify to pick so highly.

You are correct the entire fanbase is on suicide watch right now. Pittsburgh had the advantage of being a long established team when Mario Lemieux's playing days were over and the team went iinto the toilet.

I recall one year they finished with 60 points that may have been the year prior to getting Crosby I would need to look that up. I could not imagine the Preds only garnering 60 points now we would be back top the days of 6,000 to 7500 butts in seats on any given night.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Thanks Enoch -

I really wasn't meaning to address anything having to do with feelings or emotions. I was looking for some evidence that anyone in Poile's shoes has done better. Dallas doesn't strike me as a small market (nothing about that city strikes me as small), but Columbus certainly does (Carter is a good name). I will have to search around. I wasn't even thinking of contemporary examples, so thanks for calling that one out.

He is literally not a championship GM (since we have no Cup here), but I guess few are with all the repeat champs there have been lately. I can see what you mean by the passive comments, he always seems to come across so milqtoast.

Still would like to see some other names from you and the gang on who would be a better fit for us. I think changing up for the sake of new blood is viable (if it's logical for Trotz, its logical for the GM too), but just don't know who would do a demonstrably better job (assuming the reins are just handed over to Fenton).

FWIW, there are some great GMs in good situations that have struggled to bring in UFAs as well. Lombardi struck out on Hossa, Chara, Kovalchuk, Brad Richards, and Parise, among others, over the years, and even after two Cups, LA doesn't seem to be the most attractive UFA destination. He's been able to make up for that through some solid trades, though admittedly part of that was facilitated by them dwelling in the cellar for a few years.

 

[Enoch]

FWIW, there are some great GMs in good situations that have struggled to bring in UFAs as well. Lombardi struck out on Hossa, Chara, Kovalchuk, Brad Richards, and Parise, among others, over the years, and even after two Cups, LA doesn't seem to be the most attractive UFA destination. He's been able to make up for that through some solid trades, though admittedly part of that was facilitated by them dwelling in the cellar for a few years.

I hear you and agree. I'm not as down on Poile as some believe, but I am holding him accountable to his own self acclaimed goals, especially since the Phoenix series. I truthfully believe that Poile is a very good GM, but I think the time has come to be critical of the lack of results.

 

[Cashville]

Im sorry but thats ridiculous logic.

If we get Partick Sharp(who is signed for 3 more years) we are a playoff team and that 1st round pick will be in the high teens or twenties.

I would move Wilson, our first, and even Forsberg for Sharp

Yeah, I would move a moon or two for Sharp. Really love him; reminds me of a younger Elias on whom I also have a massive man crush despite his age.

 

[Jarnberg]

It is not my job to hand pick the Predators GM nor is it my job to figure out where David Poile is "failing" or "struggling". As many others have pointed, I cannot truly know what Poile is or isn't doing behind the scenes. Fair enough. All I can do is judge him based on the results of his tenure and the comments he himself makes. I am doing so. Railing for me and others to propose a better plan/etc is a straw man argument being used to deflect away from the criticisms being handed out on Poile.
"I don't like what you are saying so .... " Insert response claiming I should just be the GM or present my GM plan. Debates don't work that way. If you don't like what I say, debate the argument, not your feelings about the argument (that is, if you truly want to debate - feel free to express emotions, this is a message board after all).

To answer partially:

I think the results of David Poile's career speak for themselves. I do not need to elaborate or go into to much detail. A quick google search will tell you all you need to know about his playoff record, offer sheet and negotiating history, and difficulty obtaining offensive stalwarts.

As for his negotiating tactics specifically. Look only to the past few weeks to enlighten yourself on his mindset on talking with players and their representatives. I can assure you, I can think of no other GM in any sport that has pubicly admitted that multiple free agents (I can think of three) had to call him to get his attention, that he is too busy to meet with people during an exclusive negotiating period this year ... maybe a phone call would occur (there is no coincidence at the record in terms of money and fast paced nature of this free agency), that he wouldn't sell a city to a player but they could always call him ... At the very least, these comments aren't helpful and paint us negatively.

This post is coming off very negative, so let me back track and say a few things. Poile has a great hockey mind. He acquires defensive and goaltending talent at an exceptionally high rate. He has drafted multiple defensive superstars - Scott Stevens, Shea weber, Ryan Suter .... As well as goalies, Olaf kolzig and pekka rinne. He is good at finding scouts and organizational talent.

He is a solid GM. He is not a championship GM. He is also passive and patient by nature for better or worse.

Lastly, to name a few players that were traded to smaller markets, off the top of my head quickly - spezza and seguin to Dallas, carter to Columbus. I would need to do more research and have your criteria to define small markets bc some teams have had a poor team with poor attendance, others have a big market but poor attendance good team ... It's a jumble.

Edit: solid response Byrd. Also, I would say that if Poile was truly able to fill his own self appointed goals, this team very well could win a cup. The problem is, he fails to meet them ... I.e, we struggle to get that offensive piece year after year (this is not necessarily unique to the Predators although it does feel like a situation we find ourselves in annually in comparison to other teams).

Perfect.

FYI just because people post frustration at a move or two or comment on Poile's failure to reach his own goals does not automatically mean that people think he's the worst GM or that someone could do better here. Things aren't so binary. You can be a good GM and still fail to accomplish the tasks necessary to land a cup. You can be a good GM and still make a bad signing or a bad trade. Just because we do a deal that gives us Jarnkrok doesn't mean that all trades are now good.

We have a very real problem in forward scoring. We've had it for years. I'm of the opinion of that it has held us back in winning more. Some disagree. Fine. But that's my opinion on what the team needs. For whatever reason, David Poile struggles to get offensive forwards. That doesn't mean he's never done it (look at 2005-2007) but you'd be kidding yourself if you said he does it consistently. Some are just tried of every excuse being used for Poile not landing a center. Whatever the real reason is, he just hasn't gotten it done. The season hasn't started yet and he has time but considering his inability to do it in the past and similar type comments made by him, sorry if some of us are skeptical.

No matter what, the usual excuses are busted out. No one wants to sign here and they were overpaid anyway. There is no one to trade for in the league. No one wants to play here. We cannot give up anything to land that player. That team wouldn't want what we have to offer. We don't really need offense anyway. After a while it just starts to become amusing. Yeah a lot of the above can be said about a lot of deals. But when they happen so often for every player that could improve us, you just have to scratch your head.

Plenty of teams have been able to address their needs for whatever reason. David Poile right now hasn't addressed our need for a center to play with Neal. And that's a real concern. And yes, there is plenty of offseason to go. But I don't think Poile can or will do it. And I hope 100% I'm dead wrong.

 

[jwhouk]

In related news, here's something to feel warm and fuzzy about:

https://www.twitter.com/MrsJoki/status/484713291223019521

And she just got herself a new follower.

Sending flowers to the free agents' wives - classy, DP.

 

[Phenomenon]

Class act

 

[jwhouk]

Unless something drastic happens, I think he's capable of 16-17 goals, around 40 points, and maybe 3-4 PPG with a PIM total somewhere in the 40's.

Solid, not spectacular.

 

[NSH615]

so Lavy did indeed push for Jokinen. Jokinen also said that he was attracted to us by the hiring of Lavy.

Wrong kind of forward to push for Lavy, we already had enough of these types!

Laviolette pushed for Nashville to pursue the 35-year-old centerman, and his pitch paid off with the 6-foot-2 Jokinen deciding on the Predators.
...
“I think playing against his teams, as a player you were like ‘I’d love to play for this guy. I’d love to play for his teams,’ ” Jokinen said. “His teams have always been high-tempo with good skating and they create a lot of chances and a lot of offense. At the same time his teams were hard to play against. They were very organized and stuck with their gameplans.”

http://www.tennessean.com/story/spo...7/05/offense-attracts-jokinen-preds/12256161/

 

[Privy]

so Lavy did indeed push for Jokinen. Jokinen also said that he was attracted to us by the hiring of Lavy.

Wrong kind of forward to push for Lavy, we already had enough of these types!

 

[glenngineer]

He also talked with Rinne at the world championships so that helped too. That was thru THN.

 

[alexmanu]

I like what Jokinen said but I'm still not enamored with the signing. If he plays in one of our PP units he could contribute 40-50pts but I would prefer the young guys to get a shot if I'm honest. Certainly Iron Hook and Wilson.

 

[NSH615]

Press Conference

 

[kypredsfan]

Press Conference

Thanks for posting. He seems very humble and willing to do anything he's asked.

 

[cleangene63]

Thanks for posting. He seems very humble and willing to do anything he's asked.

I hope they ask him to score 40 goals, then Seriously, I think he will be a great replacement for the "team player" intangible the Preds will miss without Horns and Spalls to the Wall.

 

[nomorekids]

It's not that Jokinen is a bad signing, or that I don't expect him to score 18-22 goals, it's just that this can't be considered "the fix." At the draft, Poile was bullish in his "we need a top center." In the days following, he toned it down to "we would like a top center, but if we can't get one, we like our youth," then signing Jokinen and saying "We see him on the wing, but who knows, maybe he's a center."

It reminds me a bit of when Ryan Suter left and a very green Roman Josi was a question mark. Initially the plan was "We have a plan B, we need a top 4 defenseman until Roman is ready," and then, without a game being played, "Roman is ready to play with Shea."

In hindsight, that worked out eventually...but not before the worst season the team has experienced in over 10 years.

I don't know if the solution is a trade for VL, a stop-gap signing of Derek Roy\Mike Ribeiro...or something else...but I think we're not taking advantage of an asset like James Neal with one of Colin Wilson\Jarnkrok\Fisher\Jokinen as the number one center.