He may be our best player this year, but that doesn't mean he should be absolved of any criticism. He's simply not playing like a top line player right now.
Post-Game Talk: oilers win toilet bowl 2013 3-2 (did only the third line play?)
- Thread starter Jumptheshark
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He may be our best player this year, but that doesn't mean he should be absolved of any criticism. He's simply not playing like a top line player right now.
McGoMcD
Registered User
Fair enough, but he is also 21. To be as defensively reliable as he is at such a young age is huge. most players start out poor to average at defence and eventually progress to average to good. Nuge is already good, so he will get the Patrice Bergeron level.
I agree he needs to produce more offence but at the end of the day he is still leading the team. He needs guys like Ebs and schultz to produce more around him as well.
Approved Variety
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- Nov 14, 2010
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No one on the 29th place team is absolved of criticism.
"Nuge sucks, what a bum, he's doing nothing!" is not criticism. It's stupid and childish.
If we had a proper NHL team around him, I wouldn't have a problem putting money down on him producing 0.8+ ppg, and still be our most defensively responsible forward in the top 9.
Nuge is not at fault for our team being low on offense. Not when he dogs himself every night for 20+ minutes a game as a 21 year old. Most analysts love Nuge this year, it's not just smoke. You can't base his performance on his boxcars.
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Nobody is saying the bolded ftr. To be suggesting that others are stating that is also offputting, adds nothing to the discussion, and is nothing but strawman rebuttal.
What do you want to base it on then? Compete level? He's getting owned by first lines of teams like Minny, Buffalo that are as easy as matchups get at this level.
The first thing I want you or anybody to check out is watching guys like Gaudreau or Monahan in Calgary. Contrast the compete levels of those players vs Nuge right now.
People should note as well I've been a big critic of Eberle's play at times but I give him every credit for turning it around since Nelson has been coach. A lot of players have. Pouliot and Eberle are playing their best games of the season and the line is struggling. When I watch the games I note that Nuge isn't supporting offense very well. Last night we lost a 3 against 2 puck battle in offensive zone last night on the PP. With Nuge essentially being a passenger on that play. You simply aren't being competitive and digging down deep when stuff like that is happening.
I get that Nuge is getting too many minutes, we all agree, but its hard to see this half assing it around the ice. He has nothing close to the pace that he can bring to a game. Its like he's in the wrong gear most of the time. Does light it up on some shifts.
lets be clear again as well. I think Nuge has great potential. I don't think he's delivering presently.
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He doesn't play a great all round game. That's one of the fictions oft stated so that we can be somehow happier about his performance. I keep bringing Monahan up because theres a guy that's figured out what level of compete is required in the NHL. Its sad to see the comparison. Nuge is a lot more talented player, but playing with far less intensity.
This needs to change.
Hall on one good leg has been better than Nuge this year. No disgrace that but just saying. Theres no reason physically for Nuge not to be bringing his game more consistently. We get flashes of it. In rookie season we were getting whole games of it.
I think the push back from people here is just flat out disagreement with your assessment, that's all. You and most others are seeing completely different things when we watch him play, so you can't be too surprised when people are stunned by some of your comments.
On the flipside, I guess it must be equally baffling for you to hear us say we don't see what you're seeing.
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Or alternately you can actually discuss it. What was the point of your post other than to attempt deriding mine?
Oh, wait, that is the intent. Just so everybody reading is clear.
Um huh? I thought my post was merely pointing out that there are two sides seeing things REALLY differently here. Obviously I have my own view of Nuge, but I'm just trying to describe why it can seem frustrating for both sides to try and discuss things.
It's like one side saying that 'That bird is flying sideways' and someone else saying 'What? That bird is flying perfectly fine, not sideways?'
Which one is correct? Well I guess it depends on which one you ask? it's why these internet discussions can be really tricky at times. I actually wasn't deriding your viewpoint in any way at all.
No attack on my end. It's Friday, I'm not in the mood for it..hahah
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Fair enough and cheers.
Given what most of your responses to my posts are you could see how I could take it that way. My comment wasn't in isolation.
Anyway I don't find it frustrating having different takes and opinions, everybody should be able to express that. But I do like when positions are represented.
Now on the other hand, Monahan has 31 points in 49 games while RNH has 29 points in 47 games... And RNH doesn't have the luxury of guys like Giordano backing him up on the blueline, he gets Justin Schultz instead. I know you like to pick these battles but come on, let's not over rate Monahan and underrate RNH.
Agreed. Conversation and a difference of views is pretty much the lifeblood of a forum like this. I personally get very annoyed when a difference of opinion is written off as being invalid, as if you must clearly not watch the games, or not know about the sport if you don't agree with a certain viewpoint. Really frustrating. I've been guilty of it myself as well, for sure.
Your view of Nugent-Hopkins doesn't fit my narrative of what I've seen of him this season at all. It's the exact opposite of what I've seen. Likewise, you watch Nugent-Hopkins and it must be frustrating for you to have people not see the brainfarts on his end that you see.
Seriously, this place will be a much better place to be when this team is winning though.
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Yeah, board would be more pleasant if the topic was better and we were happy campers with where the team is at.
Heres something interesting. Calgary lost a tough hard fought 1-0 game last night with Dubs playing very well and the Wild feeling it defensively lately. Home fan boobirds were out in abundance.
He'll I'd be happy even having a Winning club that played like the Flames do most nights. They were even playing well. It was just a tough game. Puck doesn't always go in.
I think fans would be more positive here if it turned around.
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Monahan also has 7 3rd period goals this season most of which have directly resulted in Wins. I'm not much of a subscriber of the word clutch but this guy has been money with games on the line.
But he's like this all the time. Just watch the level of compete he has and especially in close hard fought games.
I could counter than Monahan doesn't have the luxury of playing with two NHL PPG capable players.
Fact of the matter is everybody on this board is surprised how well Calgary has done. They've done that through hard work, dedication, buy in. No passengers on that club, no half efforts.
McPuritania
LucicDestroyedHaley
I hope the Kings win it (sorry, Sabres fans) so that everyone on the main boards who cried, and *****ed, and threw tantrums about the lottery can choke on it.
If we (Sabres) don't win it I actually hope you do. Put him in the west, make everyone on this board so mad they break the internet...and people won't be talking so much about the Buffalo tank when you guys get the 4th 1st in a short period...this one a generational player.
We aren't fooling ourselves. The odds of us winning the lottery are so so bad. That's why we want to be last so badly. After watching subpar center play forever and never having great offensive players around here...we want to guarantee Eichel as our #1 with Reinhart as our #2 for the next decade plus.
Buffalo has quite a few high skilled players. Like the Oilers, they haven't molded into a cohesive team for some reason.
your argument is still pretty flawed because of all those half efforts and passengers we've seen on the Oilers this year. RNH isn't a passenger, he's one of the hardest working forwards on the team outside of Gordon and Hendricks really. What you're doing is praising one guy for being one of a team of hard workers and slamming another for being one of few hard workers on a team of underachieving slackers. There is a world of difference. It's also a lot easier to play hard defensively when you have a group of defensemen who can get the puck moving up ice the right way. We can all agree that he Oilers defense lacks guys who can do that reliably. It makes a big difference in everything. As we saw when Pronger was in Edmonton having just one high level all around defenseman can make the entire team different. That's what a guy like Giordano does for the Flames. Remember that season with Pronger? Did guys like Horcoff and Hemsky not have career seasons?
It's a poor argument to compare players on a team playing well and on a team playing poorly.
McDeepika
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- Aug 14, 2004
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RNH has been good this year. His even strength scoring isn't much different than a lot of other top centers. He does this despite getting a lot of tough assignments. The fact that he only has 5 PP points is killing his production.
I know some people will say he shares the blame in our PP but he has been a good PP player before. Once the PP turns around, his production will go up.
I know some people will say he shares the blame in our PP but he has been a good PP player before. Once the PP turns around, his production will go up.
LOL we have no skill players in the NHL. Well...Ennis out there by himself. Every single player is forced to play above their heads. Ennis isn't a first liner. I love Girgensons...but he's not a 1st liner...especially not at 21. Moulson needs a skilled C to feed him and we don't have one. Hodgson was supposed to have skill...but boy is he garbage (he's actually going to put up less then Leino last year!). The rest of the forwards are just bottom guys at best or guys like Stafford and Stewart playing out the string until the deadline. Actually Stewart has been our best forward all these losses. Funny he gets the criticisms all the time that he isn't engaged when sometimes he now looks like the only one.
There's talent on D. But we never have the puck so they're always backing up. People always want to know why Myers isn't producing...well...Torey Mitchell is the #2 C half the time. That's why. Same with Ristolainen. He has a whole offensive side to his game that we aren't going to see on this roster.
There's talent on D. But we never have the puck so they're always backing up. People always want to know why Myers isn't producing...well...Torey Mitchell is the #2 C half the time. That's why. Same with Ristolainen. He has a whole offensive side to his game that we aren't going to see on this roster.
Rafters
Registered User
Might be time to start taking some guys off the PP for a while ....make them work harder when they have to opportunity to get pp mins again
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He's barely top 30 in even strength points, while getting more ice time than most of the of the players ahead of him(significantly more in most cases).
Much like the days of Horcoff, if you have to make excuses for why the highest paid center on the team is ineffective offensively(the PP doesn't work!), and search for alternative descriptions for why he isn't performing in his primary role(he plays defense, he's hardworking!) - then the player is probably not as good as people want him to be.
McGoMcD
Registered User
not many players in the NHL plays with more intensity than Nuge. I am not sure what you mean by intensity but nuge plays full out every shift. He is very focused and very hard working. He isn't a banger and a crasher and he knows it. So I am not sure what you mean, his style of game isn't suited for running around but he plays very hard.
McGoMcD
Registered User
Come on the time on ice doesnt' mean that much considering most of that is pentantly killing. Even the best player in the league might get a extra 5 points on the PK and that is generous. So basically all those minutes can be subtracted. Even strenght and powerplay he doesn't play that much, ya he should be more productive, but don't use the ice time as a measure.
