News Article: Oiler's Prospect Pool Cannot Support Rebuilding

[Fixed to Ruin]

^ it's the same mentality that says we shouldn't "waste" a high 1st round pick on a d-man either, because d-men as well as goalies are "too hard to predict". the Oilers have decent d-men in the system because they were willing to gamble on Nurse and Klefbom in the 1st and Marincin in the 2nd. and to me, it's worth the gamble to take Fucale or this year, Demko high-ish at the bottom of the 1st or around the top of the 2nd. this organization needs to continue to take high risk/high reward picks along the lines of the Nurse pick from last year if we EVER want to find another Carey Price or Alex Pietrangelo. just my opinion, but I want us to take these kinds of risks for the potential huge payoff.

Fucale got drafted last year by the Habs.

 

[ManByng]

Fucale got drafted last year by the Habs.

^yup, I know. I was just using him as an example of a good risk at the top of the 2nd round. (stupid Habs....I KNOW they took Fucale last year just to spite us!!! )

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

That's because most of our best prospects have graduated to the NHL. We're still going to improve a ton as a result of (anticipated) regular progression. If our young guys don't improve, then yea, we'll be near the bottom for a while.

We have one of the, if not the, youngest cores in the league.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Our picks graduated right away because they were good enough to and there was room for them on the team. If we had enough depth on our team that we could afford to send them to junior we probably wouldn't have been in the position of drafting those players in the first place.

And yes, HF's prospect/team ranking is pretty terrible so doesn't really matter.

When I read the exchange between you and Liquor, it's really weird. It's almost as if you guys agree with each other, but you'll be damned if you agree with each other.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

^ it's the same mentality that says we shouldn't "waste" a high 1st round pick on a d-man either, because d-men as well as goalies are "too hard to predict". the Oilers have decent d-men in the system because they were willing to gamble on Nurse and Klefbom in the 1st and Marincin in the 2nd. and to me, it's worth the gamble to take Fucale or this year, Demko high-ish at the bottom of the 1st or around the top of the 2nd. this organization needs to continue to take high risk/high reward picks along the lines of the Nurse pick from last year if we EVER want to find another Carey Price or Alex Pietrangelo. just my opinion, but I want us to take these kinds of risks for the potential huge payoff.

Yup, those are the kinds of picks that make a franchise. The mid-to-late 1sts / 2nds (or even lower) that become stars. Either that or FA pick ups.

Chicago: Keith (54th) / Seabrook (14th) Hossa (FA)
Minnesota: Parise (FA) / Suter (FA)
Anaheim: Getzlaf (19th) / Perry (28th)
Los Angeles: Kopitar (11th) / Quick (72nd)
Boston: Chara (FA) / Bergeron (45th) / Lucic (50th) / Rask (21st)
Montreal: Subban (43rd)
Pittsburgh: Letang (62nd)
New York (R): McDonagh (12th, prospect trade) / Lundqvist (205th)

Pittsburgh is kinda the exception but they have two of the five best players in the world.
We have Eberle but we need another (and he's not the same calibre as most of those guys). At least one of the Gagner/MPS/Nurse-level picks need to pan out for us.

 

[Petes2424]

WTH is this..

Last thing EDM needs is more prospects challenging for roster spots.. With all the young firepower we need veterans to surround the skill.. Our prospect pool is perfect for rebuild.. Let them ripe in AHL for a couple years and jump up into bottom 6 role on the main club.

They need 20 more prospects. For where they've been drafting it's a joke what they have.

They are not in any position to build through UFA. Development has been the major flaw with the team for ten years plus. The Oilers will never be relevant until they build their system up. Fans always want to add this player or that player through UFA but there's one major road block to making it that simple.

Players just would rather go somewhere else. So were left with guys like Gordon and Ference. The best we can hope for this July is Kyle damn Quincey. It's not going to work long term. The 5-8 guys they have now need to take that next step and they need to concentrate on building and developing their system. This team is still 3-5 years away from being really competitive and that's IF they evolve and build their system.

 

[ManByng]

^the Oilers though have been burned by a few picks that would be paying off for us now if they had developed. 2nd rounders like Lander, Pitlick, C. Hamilton from 4 and 5 drafts ago were players we needed to be contributing by now and they just aren't and that has hurt this club a lot.

 

[Broilers]

You have to remember that most of these teams still have their 1st rounders from recent years in their prospect pools... ... the Oilers are seriously lacking in forward prospects, but one of the main reasons for that is that their high draft picks from recent times are all playing in the NHL. I'd like to see more forward depth in the prospect pool though, for sure.

You are quite right. The problem is not only drafting but how we develop our prospects. We should keep prospects longer time in the farm. I would consider following things in order to develop prospect properly so they can really chaleenge real NHLers for the roster spots.

1. To sign 2 UFA top 9 wingers
2. Bring 2 top 5 defense men through the UFA route
3. To sign 2 UFA 4th liners
Conclusion: less spots for younger guys more time for them to delop, shich makes following moves possible:
1. Klefbom can stay the whole season OKC and become all situation 25 minute defense man in the AHL level.
2. Nurse can stay one more year in juniors
3. 2014 top pick can stay one more year in juniors
4. Competition for roster spots is effective way to develop players.
5. Some veterans need to go to OKC. We need not to call up kids first to fill the void

 

[ManByng]

^what the Oilers really need is a 3rd line that can score. guys like Hendricks, Gordon, Pitlick and Larsen aren't those kind of players, they are 4th liners so we don't need any more of them. Jones can't score anymore and won't be re-signed and Smyth has retired, so MacT must find us a 3rd line. that will be tough!

but i agree that Nurse should stay 1 more year in junior and Klefbom a full year in OKC. will do nothing but good for both of them.

and the 2014 #3 pick, if we don't trade it, can play here if he's NHL ready. i have read in the past online, in papers and heard on the radio that some scouts feel that Ekblad and Reinhart are NHL ready, and even Draisaitl might be. if they are, you have to play them on the big club.

 

[rockinghockey]

I think our dmen are the biggest need to improve the team. Some dmen we should be looking at on 1 yr or 2 yr max contracts are:
Willie Mitchel
Ron Hainsey
Matt Greene
Derek Morris
These are the type of dmen we need for one or two years to add some size, toughness and experience to the back end. This will allow our young dmen to properly develop in the AHL. They are not top pairing dmen but they are legit NHL experienced dmen that will add the toughness and grit to this team that we require on the back end.

As for our prospect pool that is what happens when you draft with the top picks and they jump into the NHL immediately.

 

[ManByng]

^a couple of Markov, Morris, Hainsey, Engelland, Niskanen, Gilbert and Quincey are the likely targets.

 

[Tyrolean]

They need 20 more prospects. For where they've been drafting it's a joke what they have.

They are not in any position to build through UFA. Development has been the major flaw with the team for ten years plus. The Oilers will never be relevant until they build their system up. Fans always want to add this player or that player through UFA but there's one major road block to making it that simple.

Players just would rather go somewhere else. So were left with guys like Gordon and Ference. The best we can hope for this July is Kyle damn Quincey. It's not going to work long term. The 5-8 guys they have now need to take that next step and they need to concentrate on building and developing their system. This team is still 3-5 years away from being really competitive and that's IF they evolve and build their system.

Oilers will never win the SC if they do not add at least 1 or 2 great UFAs. Nowadays they have to hope a generational player breaks thorough from all their drafting.

 

[Zaddy]

As I wrote in the other draft thread I whole-heartedly agree with this sentiment. If we had guys from 2009-2011 drafts being developed properly and just now entering the NHL we'd be in a much, much better position.

2009: Pääjärvi and Lander were both rushed and could very well be solid middle-six players by now. Hesketh and Abney were taken in the 3rd round and are complete busts at this point.

2010: Pitlick, Marincin and Hamilton were all taken in the 2nd round. Only Marincin is looking like an NHL player at this point.

2011: Klefbom was a solid pickup at #19. Musil at #31 and 3rd rounders Perhonen and Ewanyk will not be NHLers.

I think the picks in themselves has been discussed to death already but it paints a pretty good picture of why we are where we are and where we'll be in the future if our drafting and development of players doesn't improve. I'm hopeful though, I think the 2012 and 2013 drafts, although not amazing, has been quite a lot better.

As I mentioned in the other thread I'm pretty worried about not having any 2nd or 3rd rounders in this years draft. We still really need to boost our prospects pool, as weird as that sounds after all these years of being a lousy team, but we're going to continue to be just that if we can't improve in this area.

 

[CorpseFX]

imagine we broke taylor hall in at 23?

i would call the Oilers idiots in the opposite direction if they did that.

the drafts are too obscured in final conclusions to judge prospects so i dont care. what's the the ultimate fail of this franchise is getting a roster together that fosters proper development of young players. the teams execution is horrid night in and night out.

way too many mental errors, poor fundamentals, reactive play and certain players being promoted to roles they are qualified for talent-wise (which has been going on for well over a decade).

the team was suppose to "change it's culture" when Katz bought it but that's been an illusion. theyre still dependent on an "over-achieving" mentality and management model. this time they just replaced the system from defensive hard work to "we wish we could execute fancy" offense...

 

[McDoused]

^ it's the same mentality that says we shouldn't "waste" a high 1st round pick on a d-man either, because d-men as well as goalies are "too hard to predict". the Oilers have decent d-men in the system because they were willing to gamble on Nurse and Klefbom in the 1st and Marincin in the 2nd. and to me, it's worth the gamble to take Fucale or this year, Demko high-ish at the bottom of the 1st or around the top of the 2nd. this organization needs to continue to take high risk/high reward picks along the lines of the Nurse pick from last year if we EVER want to find another Carey Price or Alex Pietrangelo. just my opinion, but I want us to take these kinds of risks for the potential huge payoff.

It's not the same at all... Goaltenders are limited in the number of spots that they have. You can only have 1 starter at the NHL level. Most people don't take dmen because they take a while to develop, not because they are hard to predict. You have to take dmen given the number of spots. It's much harder to trade for 6 NHL dmen then it is for 1 NHL goaltender.

 

[McDoused]

As I wrote in the other draft thread I whole-heartedly agree with this sentiment. If we had guys from 2009-2011 drafts being developed properly and just now entering the NHL we'd be in a much, much better position.

2009: Pääjärvi and Lander were both rushed and could very well be solid middle-six players by now. Hesketh and Abney were taken in the 3rd round and are complete busts at this point.

2010: Pitlick, Marincin and Hamilton were all taken in the 2nd round. Only Marincin is looking like an NHL player at this point.

2011: Klefbom was a solid pickup at #19. Musil at #31 and 3rd rounders Perhonen and Ewanyk will not be NHLers.

I think the picks in themselves has been discussed to death already but it paints a pretty good picture of why we are where we are and where we'll be in the future if our drafting and development of players doesn't improve. I'm hopeful though, I think the 2012 and 2013 drafts, although not amazing, has been quite a lot better.

As I mentioned in the other thread I'm pretty worried about not having any 2nd or 3rd rounders in this years draft. We still really need to boost our prospects pool, as weird as that sounds after all these years of being a lousy team, but we're going to continue to be just that if we can't improve in this area.

The number of players drafted outside the first round since 2010 is really quite small. We don't need more kids in the lineup, we need vets. We can blame scouting for everything. We have one of the best young cores in the NHL.

 

[Jumptheshark]

for about 3 years now I have been banging on about the oilers lack of development of players outside of the first round. Too many reaches and projects--if you are going to reach and draft projects--you need to have a better develpmental system in place

 

[BlowbyBlow]

i would call the Oilers idiots in the opposite direction if they did that.

the drafts are too obscured in final conclusions to judge prospects so i dont care. what's the the ultimate fail of this franchise is getting a roster together that fosters proper development of young players. the teams execution is horrid night in and night out.

way too many mental errors, poor fundamentals, reactive play and certain players being promoted to roles they are qualified for talent-wise (which has been going on for well over a decade).

the team was suppose to "change it's culture" when Katz bought it but that's been an illusion. theyre still dependent on an "over-achieving" mentality and management model. this time they just replaced the system from defensive hard work to "we wish we could execute fancy" offense...

Excellent response, the truth is a player should be brought in when he's ready not because the team has an opening position. Hall would have made it in his first year on any team, RNH, Gagner, Yakupov on any team would have waited 2-3 years before they were on the big club. It creates entitlement it also doesn't give a development program in the mental, and physical aspects of the game

 

[McDoused]

for about 3 years now I have been banging on about the oilers lack of development of players outside of the first round. Too many reaches and projects--if you are going to reach and draft projects--you need to have a better develpmental system in place

It's definitely way to early to say this. Over the past 3 years the only players selected in rounds 3-7 that have made any kind of impact at the NHL are Shaw and Palat. That's 2 players out of 450...

 

[BlowbyBlow]

It's definitely way to early to say this. Over the past 3 years the only players selected in rounds 3-7 that have made any kind of impact at the NHL are Shaw and Palat. That's 2 players out of 450...

i think the bigger problem is that the Oilers need depth scoring and eventually depth defenceman even if the big 3 d (Marincin, klefbom, Nurse) develop. Other teams like a Chicago have the advantage that they can still acquire talent through trading there farm. So its a moot point if Shaw or Saad develop if need be they can go get a player through trade or UFA by using those assets, because those guys develop its a bonus. Oilers ask to much of players because there trying to get guys that rarely develop beyond there projection. it doesn't happen often 2-7th round picks become first line center, and wingers or later round picks become #1-2 d-man. Goalies are the exception you can be picked it seems everywhere

 

[Zaddy]

The number of players drafted outside the first round since 2010 is really quite small. We don't need more kids in the lineup, we need vets. We can blame scouting for everything. We have one of the best young cores in the NHL.

Except if we actually developed the players they wouldn't be 'kids' when they'd enter the NHL. Imagine Pääjärvi and Lander with 2-3 full AHL seasons in their back. They'd be solid, contributing players right now. Just like Marincin this year. You can't expect to plug all your holes with 'vets'. Especially not a team like Edmonton who have a notoriously tough time to attract FA's. You need to have these kind of guys coming up through the system every now and then. It's how you have sustained success. This is the lesson, above all, which the Oilers need to learn.

You're saying we need vets, well we got vets this season with older guys like Grebeshkov, Belov, Ference. That's not the solution. I'd be much more comfortable having a player we developed slowly through the system on our bottom D-pairing for example. That's a guy who's going forward and whose career is trending upwards and might become something more than just a bottom pairing guy, instead of getting these 'vets' to play the role whose careers are trending downwards.

The same goes for our bottom-six. You break in players when they're ready and then put them in a sheltered situation rather than handing them top minutes from the get-go just because we don't have any better players. That's a loser's system. Rather suck for a couple of years with a bunch of stop-gap solutions while the real talent is getting properly developed in juniors/AHL.

If we don't change this philosophy asap, we might need to do a full-scale rebuild again. It's not all bad though. As I said, I'm hopeful we're finally starting to get these guys developed from within to fill out spots when they're ready. Guys like Moroz, Khaira, Yakimov, Chase etc. I'm hoping that continues in this draft but without 2nd and 3rd rounders it'll be hard to get solid prospects.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Except if we actually developed the players they wouldn't be 'kids' when they'd enter the NHL. Imagine Pääjärvi and Lander with 2-3 full AHL seasons in their back. They'd be solid, contributing players right now. Just like Marincin this year. You can't expect to plug all your holes with 'vets'. Especially not a team like Edmonton who have a notoriously tough time to attract FA's. You need to have these kind of guys coming up through the system every now and then. It's how you have sustained success. This is the lesson, above all, which the Oilers need to learn.

You're saying we need vets, well we got vets this season with older guys like Grebeshkov, Belov, Ference. That's not the solution. I'd be much more comfortable having a player we developed slowly through the system on our bottom D-pairing for example. That's a guy who's going forward and whose career is trending upwards and might become something more than just a bottom pairing guy, instead of getting these 'vets' to play the role whose careers are trending downwards.

The same goes for our bottom-six. You break in players when they're ready and then put them in a sheltered situation rather than handing them top minutes from the get-go just because we don't have any better players. That's a loser's system. Rather suck for a couple of years with a bunch of stop-gap solutions while the real talent is getting properly developed in juniors/AHL.

If we don't change this philosophy asap, we might need to do a full-scale rebuild again. It's not all bad though. As I said, I'm hopeful we're finally starting to get these guys developed from within to fill out spots when they're ready. Guys like Moroz, Khaira, Yakimov, Chase etc. I'm hoping that continues in this draft but without 2nd and 3rd rounders it'll be hard to get solid prospects.

Wondering why these players show promise yet Ewanyk will "never be an nhler"?

Im guessing its because you are scouting by stat sheet. Ewanyk has never put up numbers so he will never be an nhler?

 

[VayaConDios]

Flood okc and bakersfield with prospects?

 

[Zaddy]

Wondering why these players show promise yet Ewanyk will "never be an nhler"?

Im guessing its because you are scouting by stat sheet. Ewanyk has never put up numbers so he will never be an nhler?

Not at all. Sure, he might play a few NHL games and be in and out of the lineup for a few years but I don't see him becoming a regular or having any kind of impact. Musil, Ewanyk, Pitlick might all play in the NHL but I think that would say more about the Oilers than the players themselves. Anyway let me rephrase that to: They will not have long-lasting NHL careers, the way I see it.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Kelly Buchberger played 16 seasons in the NHL.