News Article: Oiler's Prospect Pool Cannot Support Rebuilding

[Jumptheshark]

HF ranks Oilers prospect pool 18th

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articl...tem-remains-deep-despite-numerous-graduations

The team is still in the bottom 3 and realistically can improve to bottom 8 team if free agents are not added. Prospect pool lacks high end talent. In the coming draft after 1st pick we will pick in the fourth round.

Rebuilding seems to be in hazard. How we can improve if we do not have enough prospects who start challenge for the roster spots.

I think that next thing is to fire scouting staff or at least Stu MacBastard

I was amused when it said Abney was a key lose

Key Losses: Oliver Roy (trade-CGY), Cameron Abney (trade-TOR), Teemu Hartikainen (trade-TOR), Ryan Martindale (trade-FLA).

Hartinainen was a lose--abney--he was a give away

 

[Jumptheshark]

btw

who is Jordan Oesterle? first I heard of him

other observation-- 5 years of having lots of picks in the top 100--we should be a lot higher

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

btw

who is Jordan Oesterle? first I heard of him

other observation-- 5 years of having lots of picks in the top 100--we should be a lot higher

A College UFA the team signed recently.

And I guess, but the biggest difference between the Oilers and the teams above them is those teams have fewer 1st round picks that are considered "graduated"

1st round picks come with more pedigree and are, obviously, more highly rated, so the teams with those players still considered "prospects" by HF standards, will be higher on the list.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Well the Avs made a great prospect signing at the goaltending position. A guy I talked about for about 3 years on this site. We need goalies yet the Oilers continue with their old ways. This team just makes me shake my head sometimes.

 

[LTIR]

Well the Avs made a great prospect signing at the goaltending position. A guy I talked about for about 3 years on this site. We need goalies yet the Oilers continue with their old ways. This team just makes me shake my head sometimes.

Yeh I guess we should have given up a 1st plus a 2nd for Holtby, Neuvirth or Markstrom.
COL gambled and lucked out. We went the safer route and got Scrivens for a 3rd rd pick.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Well the Avs made a great prospect signing at the goaltending position. A guy I talked about for about 3 years on this site. We need goalies yet the Oilers continue with their old ways. This team just makes me shake my head sometimes.

Brossoit is an extremely good prospect. Bachman looks like he could be a good back up as well.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Yeh I guess we should have given up a 1st plus a 2nd for Holtby, Neuvirth or Markstrom.
COL gambled and lucked out. We went the safer route and got Scrivens for a 3rd rd pick.

This makes no sense. I didn't talk about that at all

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Brossoit is an extremely good prospect. Bachman looks like he could be a good back up as well.

I made my points clear in other threads about Oilers goaltending (drafting & development) However, we didn't draft Bachman and we had to give up assets for Broissoit. Some would argue Smid is a significant asset to give for a goaltender playing in the ECHL right now.

Quickly summerizing my position. Oilers don't draft enough goalies. They do a poor job of developping the ones they have. Having to make many trades to stock up on that positions at all levels is a symptom of a bigger problem. All you have to do is look at what the other organizations are doing.

Ask yourself why the Habs drafted Fucale when they have a 26 year old Price. Why Anaheim are constantly drafting goalies almost every year. Why Nashville always seem to find the Lindbacks, Mazanec and so on. Why Colorado has like 5 AHL level goalies. The answer becomes clear.

 

[Oilfan2]

I made my points clear in other threads about Oilers goaltending (drafting & development) However, we didn't draft Bachman and we had to give up assets for Broissoit. Some would argue Smid is a significant asset to give for a goaltender playing in the ECHL right now.

Quickly summerizing my position. Oilers don't draft enough goalies. They do a poor job of developping the ones they have. Having to make many trades to stock up on that positions at all levels is a symptom of a bigger problem. All you have to do is look at what the other organizations are doing.

Ask yourself why the Habs drafted Fucale when they have a 26 year old Price. Why Anaheim are constantly drafting goalies almost every year. Why Nashville always seem to find the Lindbacks, Mazanec and so on. Why Colorado has like 5 AHL level goalies. The answer becomes clear.

The answer to what? Was there a question that required one?

I agree that the Oil haven't drafted any good goalies in a very long time. That's a disappointment. Hopefully they do a better job going forward.

Development is pretty subjective. Don't see how you can equivocally say the Oilers do a poor job at developing them. Perhaps they're just poor goalies to begin with and what they become is what they would be with other teams. We'll probably never know for sure..

 

[The Big Unit]

The answer to what? Was there a question that required one?

I agree that the Oil haven't drafted any good goalies in a very long time. That's a disappointment. Hopefully they do a better job going forward.

Development is pretty subjective. Don't see how you can equivocally say the Oilers do a poor job at developing them. Perhaps they're just poor goalies to begin with and what they become is what they would be with other teams. We'll probably never know for sure..

I think the point he's trying to make is that if you draft too few goalies then it'll be really unlikely that you'll develop a good one. When you're a team with a terrible development record like the Oilers, it's going to be even less likely.

 

[Lacaar]

I think the point he's trying to make is that if you draft too few goalies then it'll be really unlikely that you'll develop a good one. When you're a team with a terrible development record like the Oilers, it's going to be even less likely.

You can apply that to every position in hockey to the Oilers.

We honestly have sucked balls at drafting and developing for the last 20 years.

Remove our recent 1st overalls and the chickens that haven't hatched yet.

Then look at our lineup of Drafted and developed players.

Jordan Eberle
Jeff Petry
Sam Gagner

That's all the players that will play for us next year drafted before Taylor Hall and his draft company.

I'd be interested to see what other teams have for players that they've drafted and developed that play for them prior to the 2010 draft.

Maybe 3 players is average for all I know but it seems pretty crappy to me.

The good news is Mac T has started what will hopefully be a good trading track record with the Peron trade. We're going to need it.

The other hopeful news is Stu's chickens are starting to hatch with Lander, Marincin, Klefbom etc. Hopefully our past drafting trend is bucked.

The best news is we sucked so bad we had ability taken out of the picture with our 1st overalls. Not even the incompetent Oilers could screw up Hall, RNH, Yakupov aquirements.

Wonder if they can butcher a 3rd overall though.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I think the point he's trying to make is that if you draft too few goalies then it'll be really unlikely that you'll develop a good one. When you're a team with a terrible development record like the Oilers, it's going to be even less likely.

This.

Also more quality goalies = more competition. IMO, that's better environment for development for goaltenders. The best goalies are the ones that steal the job away from the other guy.

The other issue is goaltending is vital to the success of a hockey team but it takes a long time for them to develop. What happens if Broissoit gets injured or loses confidence and can't make it to the NHL. What if you NHL starter starts playing like garbage. Wouldn't you want a younger NHL or near NHL ready in the minors ready to play in the NHL. Forcing your struggling goalie to play better if they want to keep their starting job?

The other issue. What if Broissoit turns out to be a bust or is playing poorly like Bunz. Now what? Are you going to trade another player like Smid to get one goalie and start the process over again? You need a constant flow of goalies coming through the pipeline because its vital to ensure that your NHL club remains successful over a long period of time. That starts with the drafting process.

Another point. All the starting goalies for the remaining playoff teams have been drafted and developed by their respective clubs.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I made my points clear in other threads about Oilers goaltending (drafting & development) However, we didn't draft Bachman and we had to give up assets for Broissoit. Some would argue Smid is a significant asset to give for a goaltender playing in the ECHL right now.

Quickly summerizing my position. Oilers don't draft enough goalies. They do a poor job of developping the ones they have. Having to make many trades to stock up on that positions at all levels is a symptom of a bigger problem. All you have to do is look at what the other organizations are doing.

Ask yourself why the Habs drafted Fucale when they have a 26 year old Price. Why Anaheim are constantly drafting goalies almost every year. Why Nashville always seem to find the Lindbacks, Mazanec and so on. Why Colorado has like 5 AHL level goalies. The answer becomes clear.

The Oilers draft a goalie almost every bloody year. It's not their willingness to draft them that's the problem. It's either their ability to gauge which goalies have the potential to be NHL'ers, or the development of them. Everyone knows goaltending has been a weakness. You aren't saying anything original here.

 

[ManofSteel55]

This.

Also more quality goalies = more competition. IMO, that's better environment for development for goaltenders. The best goalies are the ones that steal the job away from the other guy.

The other issue is goaltending is vital to the success of a hockey team but it takes a long time for them to develop. What happens if Broissoit gets injured or loses confidence and can't make it to the NHL. What if you NHL starter starts playing like garbage. Wouldn't you want a younger NHL or near NHL ready in the minors ready to play in the NHL. Forcing your struggling goalie to play better if they want to keep their starting job?

The other issue. What if Broissoit turns out to be a bust or is playing poorly like Bunz. Now what? Are you going to trade another player like Smid to get one goalie and start the process over again? You need a constant flow of goalies coming through the pipeline because its vital to ensure that your NHL club remains successful over a long period of time. That starts with the drafting process.

Another point. All the starting goalies for the remaining playoff teams have been drafted and developed by their respective clubs.

You do realize that there are only limited number of spaces for goalies in an organization, right? If we start drafting too many, we won't be able to sign most of them anyway.

 

[Oilers10]

btw

who is Jordan Oesterle? first I heard of him

other observation-- 5 years of having lots of picks in the top 100--we should be a lot higher

Ain't that the sad truth. Plus 20 plus years of failure and missing playoffs for most of it.

 

[The Big Unit]

You do realize that there are only limited number of spaces for goalies in an organization, right? If we start drafting too many, we won't be able to sign most of them anyway.

Of the goalies the Oilers have now, the only guys we've drafted are Bunz (5th round 2010) and Frans Tuohimaa (7th round 2011). If there's anyone I'm missing please correct me.

Now I recognize that we've traded away Olivier Roy and Dubnyk but the point is that we're not really keeping whomever we draft, which is a bad sign too. That means we're not developing our draft picks in goal properly to the point where they can be useful to the NHL club. God knows we spent years and years on Dubnyk and Deslauriers and they were both useless.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

You do realize that there are only limited number of spaces for goalies in an organization, right? If we start drafting too many, we won't be able to sign most of them anyway.

You're missing the big picture. There's many details that need to be looked at in this regard. I would gladly show you how i came to the opinion i did. However, it would take some time to write everything down and find all my posts scattered in different threads.

I don't have the time this very second, but i'll try and come back to this thread and articulate my position with all my reference information, ect.

 

[ManByng]

Need moar Oil kings.

^I agree! draft one or two of Pollock, Kulda, Mayo, Irving, Eller, as well as signing 20 year old Petryk and i'd be one happy guy! go after other winning team's players like Portland, Guelph and London and Halifax as examples.

good to see Chase was bumped up half a point to now be at 6.5 C, and that both Khaira and Moroz were bumped half a point to 7.0 C each.

 

[tiger_80]

You worry too much, and that's says a lot coming from me. Read bolded in your quote.

Yeah, if Leafs retain 2M in Clarkson's salary, I'd move Gagner for him without thinking twice. His contract is a dog, but he's a quality 3rd liner who can step up the depth chart.

 

[McDoused]

What a stupid ranking. Who cares of your prospect pools have "balance" when half the guys are borderline players and lack star power.

The Oilers essentially have 3 NHL dmen that have not graduated and are still 18? Nurse, Klefbom and Marincin should automatically put us in the top 10.

 

[ManByng]

Well the Avs made a great prospect signing at the goaltending position. A guy I talked about for about 3 years on this site. We need goalies yet the Oilers continue with their old ways. This team just makes me shake my head sometimes.

^believe me I hear yuh !! they need goalies in the system, yet have drafted NONE the last 2 drafts! and last year, they just missed out on Zack Fucale, so what do they do? they pass on every other available goalie! unbelievable !!

now this year, I thought I had heard that the Oilers are interested in Thatcher Demko? if so, they will have to get ultra aggressive and acquire another 1st rounder in the bottom half of that round, or a high 2nd rounder and hope he's still there. but if they miss out on Demko, PLEASE don't sulk and not take another goalie! just take one....please? just ONE?

 

[ManByng]

You do realize that there are only limited number of spaces for goalies in an organization, right? If we start drafting too many, we won't be able to sign most of them anyway.

^or we don't re-sign the crap (Bunz anyone?) and sign a goalie we pick in this draft? the Oilers already had the foresight to not re-sign Samu Perhonen a few years back.

 

[ManByng]

Yeah, if Leafs retain 2M in Clarkson's salary, I'd move Gagner for him without thinking twice. His contract is a dog, but he's a quality 3rd liner who can step up the depth chart.

I have a feeling that from the scuttlebutt that I have heard out of Toronto, the Oilers are likely interested in Phaneuf, Gardiner, Kadri, Clarkson, and Bolland (who's a UFA and the Oilers could be interested in?)....players who perhaps aren't long term investments with the Leafs?

 

[McDoused]

^or we don't re-sign the crap (Bunz anyone?) and sign a goalie we pick in this draft? the Oilers already had the foresight to not re-sign Samu Perhonen a few years back.

Really? Goaltenders are so hard to predict that I was personally quite happy when Montreal took Fucale ahead of us. They always look good at first and usually struggle down the line. Odds are you are wasting the pick in the first two rounds. After that, you have to be patient with those 3rd round to 7 round goaltenders. They might not make it for another 5+ years.

Given that the going rate for a potential starter is a 3rd round pick (Scrivens and Fasth) it doesn't make any sense to develop them when you can get a developed goaltender at such a cheap price.

Why put all that effort into developing a guy when the stats show that it's poor asset management?

 

[ManByng]

^ it's the same mentality that says we shouldn't "waste" a high 1st round pick on a d-man either, because d-men as well as goalies are "too hard to predict". the Oilers have decent d-men in the system because they were willing to gamble on Nurse and Klefbom in the 1st and Marincin in the 2nd. and to me, it's worth the gamble to take Fucale or this year, Demko high-ish at the bottom of the 1st or around the top of the 2nd. this organization needs to continue to take high risk/high reward picks along the lines of the Nurse pick from last year if we EVER want to find another Carey Price or Alex Pietrangelo. just my opinion, but I want us to take these kinds of risks for the potential huge payoff.