News Article: Oiler's Prospect Pool Cannot Support Rebuilding

[Fourier]

Not at all. Sure, he might play a few NHL games and be in and out of the lineup for a few years but I don't see him becoming a regular or having any kind of impact. Musil, Ewanyk, Pitlick might all play in the NHL but I think that would say more about the Oilers than the players themselves. Anyway let me rephrase that to: They will not have long-lasting NHL careers, the way I see it.

I'd say that all three have a shot at real NHL careers.

Pitlick has the tools to be a bottom six forward. He is a very good skater, hits hard and actually has a pretty decent shot. For him the issue is staying healthy and playing to his strength consistently.

Musil is very good defensively. He could easily end up as a 5/6 defenseman whose job is to shut things down. If he was a marginally better skater, something he can still improve on I'd say his chances are pretty good.

Ewanyk is never going to be a top 6 forward but he has a lot of the characteristics you would want in 4th line guy. He is tenacious, fearless, solid defensively, good on the dot, and is great at getting under guys skin. In a couple of years I could see a 4th line of:

Gadzik Ewanyk Pitlick

It might not be pretty but if you are on the ice against those guys you better keep you head up.

 

[Zaddy]

I'd say that all three have a shot at real NHL careers.

Pitlick has the tools to be a bottom six forward. He is a very good skater, hits hard and actually has a pretty decent shot. For him the issue is staying healthy and playing to his strength consistently.

Musil is very good defensively. He could easily end up as a 5/6 defenseman whose job is to shut things down. If he was a marginally better skater, something he can still improve on I'd say his chances are pretty good.

Ewanyk is never going to be a top 6 forward but he has a lot of the characteristics you would want in 4th line guy. He is tenacious, fearless, solid defensively, good on the dot, and is great at getting under guys skin. In a couple of years I could see a 4th line of:

Gadzik Ewanyk Pitlick

It might not be pretty but if you are on the ice against those guys you better keep you head up.

My point is that I'd like us to be able to draft and develop players who will become more than fringe NHL players. I want guys who'll fit into the middle-six up front and be a #4 or #5 on the backend.

Chicago has Hjalmarsson, Kruger, Shaw, Saad, Bickell who fit into these roles and were all drafted outside the 1st round.

Anaheim has Palmieri, Etem, Beleskey and more on the way with Smith-Pelly, Rakell and Karlsson, with the earliest pick being Palmieri at #26.

Boston is filthy to even look at with Marchand, Lucic, Bergeron and Krejci all being picked in the 2nd and 3rd round.

Kings have Quick, Martinez, Voynov, King, Pearson, Toffoli with Pearson at #30 as the earliest pick.

You see where I'm going with this? If you want to be successful over a long period of time you have to be able to draft and develop good players outside of the top20-25. Something we haven't been able to do all these years. You need these depth players. You can't just build a team around a bunch of 1st overall kids and leftovers from the FA market. You need to be able to find depth players especially in round 2 and 3. And, as I said, with depth players I don't mean only 4th liners or #6/#7 D's.

EDIT: Actually, Pittsburgh is an excellent example of this. They may have the 2 best players in the world on their team but without being able to draft forward/goalie depth they aren't seeing the success you'd expect out of their franchise. There was a pretty good article/thread about it somewhere on the main board about Pittsburgh and only drafting D men. No doubt it has had a big impact on their team.

 

[victor]

My point is that I'd like us to be able to draft and develop players who will become more than fringe NHL players. I want guys who'll fit into the middle-six up front and be a #4 or #5 on the backend.

Chicago has Hjalmarsson, Kruger, Shaw, Saad, Bickell who fit into these roles and were all drafted outside the 1st round.

Anaheim has Palmieri, Etem, Beleskey and more on the way with Smith-Pelly, Rakell and Karlsson, with the earliest pick being Palmieri at #26.

Boston is filthy to even look at with Marchand, Lucic, Bergeron and Krejci all being picked in the 2nd and 3rd round.

Kings have Quick, Martinez, Voynov, King, Pearson, Toffoli with Pearson at #30 as the earliest pick.

You see where I'm going with this? If you want to be successful over a long period of time you have to be able to draft and develop good players outside of the top20-25. Something we haven't been able to do all these years. You need these depth players. You can't just build a team around a bunch of 1st overall kids and leftovers from the FA market. You need to be able to find depth players especially in round 2 and 3. And, as I said, with depth players I don't mean only 4th liners or #6/#7 D's.

EDIT: Actually, Pittsburgh is an excellent example of this. They may have the 2 best players in the world on their team but without being able to draft forward/goalie depth they aren't seeing the success you'd expect out of their franchise. There was a pretty good article/thread about it somewhere on the main board about Pittsburgh and only drafting D men. No doubt it has had a big impact on their team.

To take the Chicago example:
- Hjalmarsson drafted in 2005, taken after Evan Brophey, Dan Bertram, and Mike Blunden
- Marcus Kruger drafted in 2009, taken after Byron Froese, Dan Delisle, Brandon Pirri, and Dylan Olsen.
- Andrew Shaw, drafted in 2011, taken after Maxim Shalunov, Klas Dahlbeck, Michael Paliotta, Brandon Saad, Adam Clendenning, Phillip Danault, and Mark McNeill
- Brandon Saad, taken after Adam Clendenning, Phillip Danault, and Mark McNeill
- Bryan Bickell, taken 2nd round, 45th overall, in 2004, after Dave Bolland.

I think that you have to draft a talented core, which these teams have done. Then, you have to draft and develop complementary players.

Chicago has, in my opinion, the best drafting and development program. From a drafting perspective, they draft for a wide range of skills, and develop those skills. That said, hindsight being 20-20, shouldn't they have picked Hjalmarsson earlier? Look at the players taken before Andrew Shaw - how many will be NHL'ers?

I think that it shows that developing a wide range of talents is more important than a singular focus on drafting.

When Edmonton selected players like Mitch Moroz and David Musil, people here groaned. Now, Moroz looks like he could be a fit for the current core, and Musil has improved enough that his coach speaks to him earning time in the NHL, and with him playing on the right side, could be a fit for the current core.

Edmonton has been working on their development program, with the creation of the Barons, purchase of the Condors, and the Oil Kings providing scouting on upcoming WHL prospects. I've seen improvement, as evidenced by the play of players like Martin Marincin, Oscar Klefbom, even Tyler Pitlick (who showed well before his injury.)

If I were Darryl Katz, I'd buy Todd Nelson a mansion in Oklahoma. Now.

 

[Zaddy]

To take the Chicago example:
- Hjalmarsson drafted in 2005, taken after Evan Brophey, Dan Bertram, and Mike Blunden
- Marcus Kruger drafted in 2009, taken after Byron Froese, Dan Delisle, Brandon Pirri, and Dylan Olsen.
- Andrew Shaw, drafted in 2011, taken after Maxim Shalunov, Klas Dahlbeck, Michael Paliotta, Brandon Saad, Adam Clendenning, Phillip Danault, and Mark McNeill
- Brandon Saad, taken after Adam Clendenning, Phillip Danault, and Mark McNeill
- Bryan Bickell, taken 2nd round, 45th overall, in 2004, after Dave Bolland.

I think that you have to draft a talented core, which these teams have done. Then, you have to draft and develop complementary players.

Chicago has, in my opinion, the best drafting and development program. From a drafting perspective, they draft for a wide range of skills, and develop those skills. That said, hindsight being 20-20, shouldn't they have picked Hjalmarsson earlier? Look at the players taken before Andrew Shaw - how many will be NHL'ers?

I think that it shows that developing a wide range of talents is more important than a singular focus on drafting.

When Edmonton selected players like Mitch Moroz and David Musil, people here groaned. Now, Moroz looks like he could be a fit for the current core, and Musil has improved enough that his coach speaks to him earning time in the NHL, and with him playing on the right side, could be a fit for the current core.

Edmonton has been working on their development program, with the creation of the Barons, purchase of the Condors, and the Oil Kings providing scouting on upcoming WHL prospects. I've seen improvement, as evidenced by the play of players like Martin Marincin, Oscar Klefbom, even Tyler Pitlick (who showed well before his injury.)

If I were Darryl Katz, I'd buy Todd Nelson a mansion in Oklahoma. Now.

Yep, I agree. I said it in earlier posts that it's starting to look up and I'm really hoping it will continue this way. If it does then we'll have a good shot at success in 3-5 years. What you're mentioning is also why I've been emphasized having more draft picks and wanting to trade down in order to do so. The more picks you have the better chance you got of getting good players. The ironic thing is with us rebuilding for quite some time you'd expect us to have the farm teeming with prospects, but that's not really the case. We're full on LHD guys but we have little to look at in other areas and that's a major concern. As evidenced by this seasons performance we're still miles away from being a playoff team, let alone a contender, so I think it's time to embrace the fact that the rebuild might take another 3 years before we can truly contend, so why not try and acquire some more picks? It would be different if there was a sure thing at #3 or if somehow Reinhart/Ekblad falls to us but if they don't then I'd rather trade down and acquire more picks than taking my chances that Bennett/Draisaitl becomes the #2C we so desperately want/need.

 

[hawks889]

Oilers will never win the SC if they do not add at least 1 or 2 great UFAs. Nowadays they have to hope a generational player breaks thorough from all their drafting.

No top tier UFA will come here now, they can get similar money and term from someone else. the oilers cant compete in the ufa market, as older top players want to win, and not be part of a rebuild. Need to make a bold trade, move the 1st rounder, move one of the younger high end draft picks they have made last 4 years. Its the only way to get the changes necessary for this team to be more competitve. it was evident that trading Sam gagner will get you nothing of value, unless Mact willing to eat some of that ridicoulous contract .

 

[Broilers]

^what the Oilers really need is a 3rd line that can score. guys like Hendricks, Gordon, Pitlick and Larsen aren't those kind of players, they are 4th liners so we don't need any more of them. Jones can't score anymore and won't be re-signed and Smyth has retired, so MacT must find us a 3rd line. that will be tough!

but i agree that Nurse should stay 1 more year in junior and Klefbom a full year in OKC. will do nothing but good for both of them.

and the 2014 #3 pick, if we don't trade it, can play here if he's NHL ready. i have read in the past online, in papers and heard on the radio that some scouts feel that Ekblad and Reinhart are NHL ready, and even Draisaitl might be. if they are, you have to play them on the big club.

You are right. I would start build up the third line from the pivot. Here is Nation's blog evaluation of the center position

http://oilersnation.com/2014/5/17/the-oilers-centre-depth-chart

So what we have

1st RNH
2nd ??
3rd ??
4th Boyd

Both number 2 and 3 positions should be fulfilled both immediately and then replace the immediate help with the prospect in the system. Number 2 will find the solution but number 3?? we do not have guys in the system. Boyd will need replacement too in 2 years and that position can be fulfilled with some of the following: Arco, Lander Moroz

Thin position What you guys think?

 

[oilerbear]

HF ranks Oilers prospect pool 18th

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articl...tem-remains-deep-despite-numerous-graduations

The team is still in the bottom 3 and realistically can improve to bottom 8 team if free agents are not added. Prospect pool lacks high end talent. In the coming draft after 1st pick we will pick in the fourth round.

Rebuilding seems to be in hazard. How we can improve if we do not have enough prospects who start challenge for the roster spots.

I think that next thing is to fire scouting staff or at least Stu MacBastard

Doom Gloom!

Did you look at our record this year!

Can we agree goaltending was a problem!

Versus the east with out Gagner
4-3-1. .563
Versus the east without
Hall; Perron; Smyth; Gagner
1-5 .167
With Hall; Perron; Smyth; Gagner; RNH in the line-up
9-5-3 .618

We were 6-2-3 .682 versus NSH; CGY; WPG

We were 1-18-2 versus the rest of the east with Dubnyk; Labarbera; bryz in net.

With Scrivens and Faasth
we were 8-10 versus the upper west.
6-3 .666 Against ANA; VCR; PHX; MIN
2-7 versus STL; LAK; SJS; COL

our problem teams with the end of season roster.
STL; LAK; SJS; COL; BOS; NYR.

The best teams in the west and east. were bettter than us with Goals.

EDM 36PP goals was there with the best teams.

Fwds 1-3 Perron; Hall; Eberle 60 evengoals was 3 EVG short of best teams average of 63.
Our 3-6 fwds
RNH 13; Gagner 9; Yakupov 7 29 even goals is 16 EVG short of the best teams avg of 45EVG

Our 7-9 forwards
Gordon 6; Smyth 5; Hendricks 4 15 EVG is 14 EVG short of Best teams average.
These guys were given a 4th line tough comp and tough zone start role.
there production was worth every cap $.

MacT says we need to improve our Goal production.
Pretty obvious 4-9 fwds
though historically
Healthy Gagner the last 2 seasons produces at a 14Evg/season pace.
RNh is a 14-15 EVG production when healthy
Yakupov was top 35 for EVg his 1st year.
Can we expect bounce backs I think So.
we need 3 3rd line Forwards with 12 evg/season each.

We sucked with our origional Goalies.
Our worst EVGA dmen for the Season were.
Smid
N. schultz
Fraser
Belov
Ference after he tore his PEC.
we saw 3 major pairings face the other teams best over the year.
the league average for EVGA/60 is 2.33 EVGA
the avearage for Dmen facing 1st line competion is 2.47 EVGA/60

At the start of the year:
Ference-Petry 2.37 EVGA/60
once petry tore his Pectoral
Marincin-Petry 2.34 EVGA/60
Marincin-Schultz 2.11 EVGA/60
Larsen was 1.54 EVGA/60 facing 2nd/3rd comp with Petry; marincin; Ference; Klefbom.

Mact said only elite Dmen.

so we sit with
Hall-XXX-Yak
Perron-RNH-Eberle
XXX-gagner-XXX
Hendricks-Gordon-XXX

Ference-petry
Marincin-Schultz
Klefbom-XXX
larsen

Scrivens
Fasth

so we ist here and wehave in our Org.

Mitch Moroz 6'3" 215lb 35G 150Pim CHL Forward.
most ar at least 12evg/season career. At the least

Jujhar Khaira 6'4" 215lb 19 yr old Center who played tough comp tough ZS at the end of the season in the AHL.

.20+ GPG and .30+ PPG 18 year old seasons in KHL are rare.
Semin; Ovechkin; Malkin; Tarasenko; Kuznetsov; Slepyshev; Yakipov; Nischuskin; Yakimov; Buschevich.

Bogdan Yakimov 6'5" 220lb Center .21GPg .36 PPG KHL russia WJC A
Anton Slepyshev 6'2" 195lb LW .27 GPG .36 PPG

Now go to Michael schuckers Draft pick chart St. lawrence univ) that looks at what % of 200gm players a pick gets.

you will see how much of an idiot the author of the article is.

 

[NikF]

The reason why the rebuild has to be so "extended" is because of the poor asset management from the years before. Thought you guys might be interested in this http://sbcpuckstorming.blogspot.com/2014/05/edmonton-oilers-2006-roster.html

 

[Raab]

The reason why the rebuild has to be so "extended" is because of the poor asset management from the years before. Thought you guys might be interested in this http://sbcpuckstorming.blogspot.com/2014/05/edmonton-oilers-2006-roster.html

The reason it was extended was Tamboloney's inability to add anything of value to the roster besides 1st overall picks.

 

[nexttothemoon]

It's going to be interesting to see how Yakimov does in OKC. Hopefully Slepyshev will come over sometime in the near future as well.

Oilers haven't had a whole lot of success with many of their European draftees in recent years but hopefully that tide will start to turn.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Doom Gloom!

Did you look at our record this year!

Can we agree goaltending was a problem!

You dont say.

Did you know...........that we havent drafted a starting goaltender since 1981?

 

[The Nuge]

You dont say.

Did you know...........that we havent drafted a starting goaltender since 1981?

I don't care if we get one through the draft as long as we have them. Goalies are a tough one to predict

 

[Groucho]

I'd rather the team just kept drafting skaters. Or at the very least take goalie prospects with late picks. Goaltending can be addressed later.

 

[The Nuge]

I'd rather the team just kept drafting skaters. Or at the very least take goalie prospects with late picks. Goaltending can be addressed later.

Ya, I'm a big fan of using one late round pick on your favourite diamond in the rough goalie

 

[I am the Liquor]

I don't care if we get one through the draft as long as we have them. Goalies are a tough one to predict

Montreal and LA dont seem to have any problems.

 

[McQuixote]

The article does make a good point in that the Oilers are seriously lacking in forward prospects, but one of the main reasons for that is that their high draft picks from recent times are all playing in the NHL. I'd like to see more forward depth in the prospect pool though, for sure.

Yeah, this ranking is built on incomplete information. The team is penalized by the arbitrary "rules" of the ranking. A 19 year old in the NHL is no less a part of a team's future or a piece of a rebuild than one still in the OHL.

Now, the Oilers do seriously need to look at injecting some more skill into their pipeline, but there's no call to panic because of the HF Boards ranking.

Going forward right now, the Oilers are set for the next half-decade at 1st line LW, 1st line RW, , and one top 6 center. They are likely probably set at 2nd line wing positions too.

That's pretty deep, future-wise. And that doesn't even look at the defense, which currently has 3 guys who are basically rookies that have top-4 potential or higher, plus the guy in the OHL. Plus a handful of really promising others in the minor system.

There's almost an entire top 6 and basically a top 4 of "future" in the system right now and that's before the 3rd overall pick is made next month. There aren't insurmountable holes to fill in the system.




The real problem is the holes in the roster now, not the future.

 

[ManByng]

I'd rather the team just kept drafting skaters. Or at the very least take goalie prospects with late picks. Goaltending can be addressed later.

Ya, I'm a big fan of using one late round pick on your favourite diamond in the rough goalie

^i'm not! we end up with too many guys like Bunz, Roy, Perhonen and the like. the Oilers should bite the bullet, try to make a trade for a low 1st rounder or get back the high 2nd rounder they traded away and take a chance on Thatcher Demko. the Oilers already suck so what do they have to lose?

 

[Bangers]

Montreal and LA dont seem to have any problems.

To be fair, Price was a once in a decade (ok, once every 5 years) type goalie pick, and nobody predicted how well Quick would turn out (Bernier was the higher pedigree goalie prospect).

And to counter that, Fleury had a similar pedigree to Price and his career has been pretty uneven thus far.

 

[I am the Liquor]

To be fair, Price was a once in a decade (ok, once every 5 years) type goalie pick, and nobody predicted how well Quick would turn out (Bernier was the higher pedigree goalie prospect).

And to counter that, Fleury had a similar pedigree to Price and his career has been pretty uneven thus far.

Ken Dryden, Patrick Roy, Carey Price, Zach Fucale. Need I go on? That doesnt even take into consideration guys like Mathieu Garon, Jose Theodore, Tomas Vokoun, or Halak.

 

[McTedi]

Ken Dryden, Patrick Roy, Carey Price, Zach Fucale. Need I go on? That doesnt even take into consideration guys like Mathieu Garon, Jose Theodore, Tomas Vokoun, or Halak.

Fucale?? You might want to wait before adding him to that list. I agree 100% the Oilers have done very little to draft and develop goalies, they seem more content trying to get goalies through trade or FA. Considering the nature of the position maybe the Oilers find it more comfortable taking a chance on developed goalies (Salo, Cujo or Scrivens for instance) than they do on projecting 18 year olds (i.e.. Dubnyk). I do think the Oilers wanted Fucale so maybe they are trying to change their ways…maybe??

 

[McArthur]

Doom Gloom!

Mact said only elite Dmen.

so we sit with
Hall-XXX-Yak
Perron-RNH-Eberle
XXX-gagner-XXX
Hendricks-Gordon-XXX

Ference-petry
Marincin-Schultz
Klefbom-XXX
larsen

Scrivens
Fasth

so we ist here and wehave in our Org.

Mitch Moroz 6'3" 215lb 35G 150Pim CHL Forward.
most ar at least 12evg/season career. At the least

Jujhar Khaira 6'4" 215lb 19 yr old Center who played tough comp tough ZS at the end of the season in the AHL.

.20+ GPG and .30+ PPG 18 year old seasons in KHL are rare.
Semin; Ovechkin; Malkin; Tarasenko; Kuznetsov; Slepyshev; Yakipov; Nischuskin; Yakimov; Buschevich.

Bogdan Yakimov 6'5" 220lb Center .21GPg .36 PPG KHL russia WJC A
Anton Slepyshev 6'2" 195lb LW .27 GPG .36 PPG

Now go to Michael schuckers Draft pick chart St. lawrence univ) that looks at what % of 200gm players a pick gets.

you will see how much of an idiot the author of the article is.

wouldn't hurt my feelings to see yakipov and yakimov in a fourth line setting to start the season next year. Gordon would get us to the dance in a third line role. not sure what he looks like in the playoffs. gadzic and Hendricks on that line could be exactly what we need out of a third line. unless there is an elite defenseman available, can't see gagner going anywhere. even with the draft coming up, we need guys that are experienced at the faceoff dot at a nhl level. pick bennet, put on wing with gagner and perron, and lets get the season started already. its tough to say this, but we can't abandon the rebuild now

 

[Groucho]

Ken Dryden, Patrick Roy, Carey Price, Zach Fucale. Need I go on? That doesnt even take into consideration guys like Mathieu Garon, Jose Theodore, Tomas Vokoun, or Halak.

Zach Fucale hasn't even played a game in the NHL yet.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Zach Fucale hasn't even played a game in the NHL yet.

What about the other seven guys?