Post-Game Talk: Oilers outplayed, only McDavid and Hyman show up

[Arpeggio]

Game 2 is going to be huge because we're going to find out if the Oilers were shell-shocked in game 1, or if they can settle into this series and stick with Calgary.

I do want to say, last night is why everyone has Calgary as the heavy favourites. They will likely outshoot the Oilers every game of this series, it's going to come down to goaltending/defence and timely goals. If the Oilers come out and take it to Calgary in game 2, I would be shocked.

I think the reason so many people want to see Holloway is because we can see where this series is going with a line like Archibald - Nuge - Ryan getting a regular shift. It's not unheard of for a playoff team to inject a rookie with great raw tools into their lineup to get a little boost, and there's clearly a spot where he would fit.

We're going to see McDavid play 25 minutes a night in this series because Nuge can't get it going offensively. If the Oilers win this, it's going to go down as maybe the best two series run by any player ever.

 

[T-Funk]

I'm not disagreeing. But as soon as we lay a finger on Lindholm, Gaudreau, there will be hell to pay. Whoever does it will be out of the game. Injured. not like our PP is up to much anyway. Which Flames are also noting. So nothing really deters the mayhem. Flames have learned even to target Nuge and Bouch on the PP because they'll cough up the puck like hairballs. Looks like the Flames have scouted. At least one team did.

The Flames know our PP better than some of our players appear to.

I expected at least a giggle for the chainsaw comment.

Gotta take the risk imo, this is the second round, and who knows the next time we'll be back. 5 years again?

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

It's really weird. We have so many people clamouring for Skinner to get in and then we also seem to have a lot of posters lamenting this teams trash track record of player development. Venn diagram must be practically a circle at this point.

Shiny toy syndrome. Change for the sake of change. A new saviour to the team. You can add lots of different narratives that fans are begging for.

They've seen what Caufield, Jarvis, Oettinger, Durzi, Byram, Makar and Demko did for their respective teams. The latter 2 guys were instrumental for their playoff runs a couple years ago. They assume the success from those prospects would somehow translate the same for our guys in Holloway, Skinner, Broberg, and Niemo.

 

[Oilhawks]

What huge Powerplay? Flames have injured multiple star players this season and little ever happens to them. Zadorov went up for suspension for the last one and nothing happened to him. Afairc there wasn't even a penalty. Count the number of charging penalties lucic has got this season and get back to me. The NHL likes to let the Flames pull their dirtbag shit. They let them do it. Zadorov was screaming at the Stars bench "you're dead" But he's a fine broth of a lad according to the minister of player safety (sarcasm, orwell)

The flames are the anointed team this season that the NHL wants to make something out of. they've been granted license all season. its not like they get penalize proportionally to their egregious actions. nah, once in awhile to make it look good. There could be a game between the Flames and the Byng trophy allstars and the NHL would even up calls as much as possible. Flames would get an extra penalty if a chainsaw was spotted..

Dirtbag flames vs refalanche would be something to behold

 

[McShogun99]

Throw this game out. I wanted Calgary even though they’re a strong team; prove you deserve to be among the best. At the top of their game the oilers can hang with anyone. In the playoffs there is no room for error and you need to bring it every night. No excuses. The boys need to focus on their game and not Calgary’s, play oilers hockey.

If you can't beat Calgary then you stand zero chance against Colorado, Tampa or Florida.

 

[Oilhawks]

If you can't beat Calgary then you stand zero chance against Colorado, Tampa or Florida.

One of these things is not like the other. I picked them to go all the way, but they need to be a lot better than they have been. They didn’t look amazing against the Caps and looked mostly like shit in game 1 against the Bolts. Coach Brunette looks frustrated.

 

[McShogun99]

Niemelainen and Malone are with the big club now. There is no salary cap in the playoffs and their season in Bako is over. They are available if Woodcroft needs their services.

It will always be part of the game (intimidation). We need someone bigger and badder than Kassian to be our top dog here. Deslauriers would've been a good fit IMO. He may not kick Lucic's butt, but he could do some damage to him and make him answer the bell. Niemelainen would be in just to hit guys, make them uncomfortable, etc. It's something that we don't have enough of.

You don't even need to fight Lucic, he's just a glorified 4th liner at this point in his career. You want Lucic on the ice as much as possible or get him taking meathead retaliatory penalties. The same goes for Gudbranson and Zadarov. Just keep hitting Calgary's star players and let them take bad penalties in retaliation. I'm sure they have a similar game plan for us.

 

[redgrant]

It's also a safe career play tbh, there's a bit of strategy with the goal tending decisions. Woodcroft needs to re-up and get a long term contract before he goes all in on his own ideas. People that want him to jam Skinner out there into the wolf den are out to lunch.

The coach is going to go with the proven vet and if it doesn't work, who gets blamed? It ain't him. It's Holland, because Holland chose to run this duo back instead of upgrading goal tending. Is Skinner better? Possibly, but it's a hell of a lot easier to get into a presser at seasons end and say "I played the team I was given by the GM", than "I took a risk and it didn't work".
I would reference the scene in Moneyball where the coach is not doing what the GM wants and his explanation is "I need to coach this team in a way that I can explain in job interviews next summer"... No rookie HC who's job isn't even cemented is going to put his faith in a rookie goalie, that's a good way to not get another HCing job, the risk is far too high.

Not to mention, the last thing you want to do is bring the guy in and be like here ya go - the hottest rivalry in the league, round 2 playoffs with everything on the line. Goodluck kid! Lmao, we saw what happened to Rittich and he had more NHL experience. He got domed, then never recovered and now he's a backup.

Tenders are the most mental of all positions, let's not put a potential franchise goalie into the meat grinder and risk a permanent regression. Skinner needs a real legitimate stretch of games before he's ready for something like this.

Agree with most of this and much to the detriment of the vocal smith cheerleaders ive more than anything been vocal about the team Woodcroft has been handed - I've been critical of Holland and his poor goaltending procurement.

What a lot of us are saying is why is Mikko - not Hollands hire - even sitting on the bench. Hes clearly done mentally as an Oiler and you could see the lack of comfort the team felt when they tied it up at 6.

Would Skinner let in goals 7 and 8? I like to think he wouldnt. I'm by no means saying we go with him as our starter but clearly Mikko is done as an Oiler and I see no point in Ty Conklining this any further. Actually it looks like they already have. Skinner should be on the bench as the backup and that is the smart coaching move for a rookie that wants a contract next year.

 

[McShogun99]

Shiny toy syndrome. Change for the sake of change. A new saviour to the team. You can add lots of different narratives that fans are begging for.

They've seen what Caufield, Jarvis, Oettinger, Durzi, Byram, Makar and Demko did for their respective teams. The latter 2 guys were instrumental for their playoff runs a couple years ago. They assume the success from those prospects would somehow translate the same for our guys in Holloway, Skinner, Broberg, and Niemo.

Does it hurt to have Holloway in over Archibald? Outside of his hitting he's a negative in every other aspect of the game. I wouldn't want to see all those players in at the same time but having Holloway over Archibald could be a positive. Skinner should only be in if there's an injury to Smith/Koskinen and one of Broberg/Neemo should only be in if we go 11/7.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

You don't even need to fight Lucic, he's just a glorified 4th liner at this point in his career. You want Lucic on the ice as much as possible or get him taking meathead retaliatory penalties. The same goes for Gudbranson and Zadarov. Just keep hitting Calgary's star players and let them take bad penalties in retaliation. I'm sure they have a similar game plan for us.

Niemelainen could crush Lucic with a clean hit and that would have Lucic looking for blood and should result in an Oilers PP. If Lucic injured or further injures our top players it is not a good thing. I 100% agree that we should be hitting their star players every chance that we get but our team clearly as a whole is either unwilling to do so, or not wanting to have Lucic come calling.

 

[McShogun99]

Niemelainen could crush Lucic with a clean hit and that would have Lucic looking for blood and should result in an Oilers PP. If Lucic injured or further injures our top players it is not a good thing. I 100% agree that we should be hitting their star players every chance that we get but our team clearly as a whole is either unwilling to do so, or not wanting to have Lucic come calling.

Just turtle on the ice and take the 7 minute PP. After that happens once I doubt Sutter will let Lucic do that again unless he wants to sit in the PB.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Just turtle on the ice and take the 7 minute PP. After that happens once I doubt Sutter will let Lucic do that again unless he wants to sit in the PB.

Agreed, he wouldn't let him unless the game is a blowout. Niemelainen should treat him the same way that he did the Islanders goon earlier this season.

 

[Draino]

Because whoever on any club goes after and targets Gaudreau would be eating out of a straw for the next month. Nobody it appears is up to the task. The Flames have a handfull of lunks that will answer the bell if you touch the gnome. Plus given NHL officiating it would be a suspension for anybody doing it. The NHL and enforcers protect Gaudreau. Nobody is protecting our stars.

im not sure if this is true, especially in the playoffs. I see d men backing down from drilling him with a clean hit all the time, when there is a scrum give him a face wash, get in his face. Hes given a free pass game after game. Whats Lucic going to do, jump everyone that gives the gnome a jab? Welcome to the penalty box. It would be so easy drawing retaliation penalties. Best case would be for McD or Drai to drill him, star vs star.

If Tkachuk or the biggest fake tough guy in the league Backlund are giving McDavid a hard time , dont go after them, go after the gnome!

 

[Fourier]

How much of Danault and Kopitar was Nuge facing in the first 7 games. AFter that the cliff is steep in LA. Nuge beating rookies for change?

Nuge is not good on the dot, and rarely has been. Quote the limited game sample, it doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't change that Ryan is often on Nuge's line for the exact reason the poster stated.

I am not arguing he is a faceoff specialist and as you know I am the last person to put much stock in FO%. It just seemed like a bad time to be suggesting that he is playing with Ryan in the playoffs because he can't win a draw. If someone wants to criticize a player's play , at least check to see if the criticism holds water.

And for the record, he was 10/21 vs Kopitar and 6/10 vs Danault. So a combined 16/31 = 51.6% vs those two.

 

[redgrant]

How much of Danault and Kopitar was Nuge facing in the first 7 games. AFter that the cliff is steep in LA. Nuge beating rookies for change?

Nuge is not good on the dot, and rarely has been. Quote the limited game sample, it doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't change that Ryan is often on Nuge's line for the exact reason the poster stated.

I dont even really know what Nuge does at this point. We got the following players that are making 5M+ or will.
Mcdavid, Drai who can carry their own lines. Hyman and Kane (soon) that are relentless around the net.

Then you got Nuge, not good on the dot. Not a shut down centre. Poor 5v5 point producer. Not tenacious around the net.

So hes 5m a year for special teams? Danault would have been a much better allocation of that 5m a year.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I dont even really know what Nuge does at this point. We got the following players that are making 5M+ or will.
Mcdavid, Drai who can carry their own lines. Hyman and Kane (soon) that are relentless around the net.

Then you got Nuge, not good on the dot. Not a shut down centre. Poor 5v5 point producer. Not tenacious around the net.

So hes 5m a year for special teams? Danault would have been a much better allocation of that 5m a year.

The apathy around these boards for Nuge is real. He's that kid brother that everyone let's tag along on their team and nobody expects him to do anything because he's always been there and everyone likes him.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

It will be predictable if the little brother syndrome rears its head and the Flames sweep then get swept.

Preferably not though.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

So I keep saying this. Its a massive mountain for the Flames. Beating us has been their usual mountain to climb. With the Oilers its never been the same and I see no indication that the Oilers approach the series the same. I said before the series. I say it now. The Flames hate the Oil. The reverse seems not to be true. Maybe by game 2 or 3...a guy can hope.

Like somebody else said the Oilers didn't even look upset last night not one.


Exactly as expected. Some battle. One team was battling. Could be we hate the Flames more than our players seemingly do. You were projecting BOA last couple days. Did you get it?

It’s Sutter’s MO. His first go around with the Flamers he put the bullseye directly on beating the Oilers. Focus and program that team to beat its arch rival. It worked as he build a hard, physical team around Iginla and Kipper. I saw alot of that ovee the two decades I lived in Cowtown.

Smart coach. Give his team clear direction and target then drill the tools to go about it. Two time Cup winner, the formula works.

The 80s Oilers were lethal finishers both on the scoreboard and in the alleys. The post 2006 teams have been challenged to create an identity and sustain it with a world of sustained losing aided by horrible mabagement groups.

Team has finally added players like Hyman and Kane to jolt next level competitiveness to support its elites. But still much work to be done to build up the quality support pieces.

 

[Magnum23]

You don't even need to fight Lucic, he's just a glorified 4th liner at this point in his career. You want Lucic on the ice as much as possible or get him taking meathead retaliatory penalties. The same goes for Gudbranson and Zadarov. Just keep hitting Calgary's star players and let them take bad penalties in retaliation. I'm sure they have a similar game plan for us.

Exactly my thoughts, no need to play Lucic and Zadarov’s game. Sure they might get us with a few big hits but we should just skill it up and make them chase us around all night.

Eventually it will lead to penalties, which equals a bigger advantage for us

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

He did, but by that point you had to see what you had with Smith and there was some promise showing that he would be healthy as well. You play a rookie goaltender earlier in the season when there’s less on the line, unless you have to because of injury or it’s Spencer Knight level talent. Woody was already behind the 8 ball so he had to pray that Smith - Koskinen could get them to the playoffs.

As for the rest, I’ve said it in another thread and not going to rehash it here. I’m not going to simp for Sutter, Treliving or the Flames. They had an absolutely blessed season with regards to luck which helped them immensely. Their first actual adversity was in the first series and they were a bounce away from blowing it. The unfortunate thing is that it looks like they match up better against this finesse team (a team that doesn’t have the depth or balance of a similar finesse Avs to overcome physical teams). I wouldn’t be shocked if the Kings managed to win last night in the Oiler’s place.

Essentially, I think we agree in that roster construction is still an issue, but I think that the Flames roster is nothing special. They’ll get shut down against a team that is committed towards defense and can run an appropriate counter attack when the impatient forwards (Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane) get frustrated and try to force plays.

The Flames are not as good as this team makes them look.

A strength of Woodcroft’s hire was familiarity with personnel both NHL and AHL roster. This helped a guy like McLeod and the AHL d guys who platooned during the crazy injury run. Clearly he was savvy enough not to run with an unknown in net. That Skinner needed more seasoning in the A (despite many in fandom decrying this probably easy decision to make).

Regarding the Flamers I can hate them but still respect what they achieved after flatlining last season. I don’t consider it simping. I was worried about that Dallas series with a historic level goaltending performance masking significant shot attempts and expected goal efforts of that team. Felt it could lead into the dam breaking in a next series in without a .966 save% tender and a looser defense and own zone goal suppression group. It looked like the Oil and their horrible first period no show was a perfect tonic. Oil will have to significantly reset to fight back momentum in all facets lost through a leaky game 1. Teams have to be good and lucky to win in this parity age of NHL. Sadly the Flamers have aced it with great health and their play and results have been there the full 82 games with only minor blimps when its slipped.

The Oiler habits crept back in game 1. Poor own zone play, flaccid stars to games, and leakage by both goalies. Game 2 is vital beginning with just matching the wOrk rate and give a shit meter of its arch enemy.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

It's also a safe career play tbh, there's a bit of strategy with the goal tending decisions. Woodcroft needs to re-up and get a long term contract before he goes all in on his own ideas. People that want him to jam Skinner out there into the wolf den are out to lunch.

The coach is going to go with the proven vet and if it doesn't work, who gets blamed? It ain't him. It's Holland, because Holland chose to run this duo back instead of upgrading goal tending. Is Skinner better? Possibly, but it's a hell of a lot easier to get into a presser at seasons end and say "I played the team I was given by the GM", than "I took a risk and it didn't work".
I would reference the scene in Moneyball where the coach is not doing what the GM wants and his explanation is "I need to coach this team in a way that I can explain in job interviews next summer"... No rookie HC who's job isn't even cemented is going to put his faith in a rookie goalie, that's a good way to not get another HCing job, the risk is far too high.

Not to mention, the last thing you want to do is bring the guy in and be like here ya go - the hottest rivalry in the league, round 2 playoffs with everything on the line. Goodluck kid! Lmao, we saw what happened to Rittich and he had more NHL experience. He got domed, then never recovered and now he's a backup.

Tenders are the most mental of all positions, let's not put a potential franchise goalie into the meat grinder and risk a permanent regression. Skinner needs a real legitimate stretch of games before he's ready for something like this.

Clearly Woodcroft was never going to temp fate with a young, development goaltender. As he says in all his pressers its about the players and not Jay Woodcroft. He is not going to compromise his integrity to make a selfish decision over the extensive work he does to assess his team and gameplan their deployment.

The poor goaltending was a massive pressure point for the extended losing period. A clear issue that both analytics and eye test aligned to reinforce its negative effect on this team.

I love Moneyball book and movie. The scenario you referwnce was largely fictionalized in characterizing Art Howe as a non-believer and obstacle over which to overcome in this heroic journey.

I don’t perceive Woodcroft as someone that would skirt around all efforts to help this team win especially as a rookie, intern coach. He would not risk losing his crediibility with sekf service over best decisions for team success.

 

[Cloned]

They all were horrid. They’re a team. They laid a turd at the start as they were nowhere near ready to play second round playoff hockey at the drop of the puck and the Flames curb stomped them for three goals..

The thread title reflects this. The OP reflects players I thought were especially bad.

Was it the system or the personnel that was the problem?

Both.

I expect both will be better the next game.

 

[KCC]

Missed the game because of a power outage. Glad I did I guess. seems like Edm got their butts handed to them . Lol. Oh well. game 2 let’s hope for a win or this series is probably over.

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

I bet Kane has a monster game after those Tkachuk chirps. Tkachuk scores 3 goals last game but has been invisible in almost every playoff game he's played in. Take the body on him and the guy disappears.

McDavid led the team in hits last game which is f***ing embarassing. Kassian had ZERO hits last game. The guy should be glued to the press box for the rest of the series.

 

[brentashton]

Thread on the mains, I think it’s fate that I got the 99th vote…