Proposal: Oilers and Pens

[Three On Zero]

Delete - accidentally posted when trying to see the proposal

 

[Jarvi]

The sample size is pretty small and he was buns the last two seasons before this one. He'd be an upgrade on Pickard for sure, but not one I'd pay a lot for. Agreed, a 3rd is about my ceiling.

Yeah, but that was on the Wings with a weak D in front of him mostly. Only 28 too, that's still young enough for a goalie to grow their game and consistency.

But yeah, considering our other areas to address I think backup G is lower on the priority list.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Guentzel would score a million with McDavid. He’s insanely good with playing with puck dominant players.

 

[McJedi]

Why is it guaranteed that Guentzel would be a rental? Honestly asking because I'm not paying attention to the Oilers' cap structure going forward.

Same reason Lindholm would have been a pure rental for the Avs. No cap space to give them a raise.

Oilers in must win mode so their GM is probably desperate. So swing for the fences with them.

 

[SEALBound]

Pens fans don't seem to value him at all though, why is that?

We do. Highly.

Fact is though, we aren't making the playoffs and he's a UFA with good value. I'd love to keep and resign him but if he's played his way out of town, we may as well get something for him.

 

[wej20]

I'd pass.

 

[McDoused]

When was the last time a rental of Guentzel's caliber was available?

This deal includes a strong BUG too so...

Say Neds is the 3rd. Then it's Guentzel for a 1st and 2 average prospects. Hell, Jarome Iginla went for that. Chychrun last year got a 1st and 2 2nds.

Chychrun still had term on his deal, he wasn't a rental.

Iginla was traded 11 years ago for a 1st round pick, Ben Hanowski (3rd rounder) and Kenny Agostino ( a 5th round). So if you want a 1st, 3rd and 5th, lets go.

The problem is that he is a rental for edmonton. Honestly Pittsburgh could get a haul if someone is willing to do a sign and trade like the Timo Meier trade.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Reports are he wants 9 million and most Oilers fans are banking on 26-30 million for Draisaitl and McDavid's new deals. Factor in Bouchard needing a big raise after next season, RNH/Nurse/Hyman/Ekholm/Kane all having term on their deals, Edmonton not being at the top of most free agent lists (though it's better than it used to be in that regard) and while it's not impossible, it's bloody unlikely.

Fair enough.

But in any case, it's a bit weird to see Oilers fans against the deal given one of the complaints I've seen from Oilers fans over the years is that Holland (I know it's a different GM now) kept hoarding his 1st round picks and prospects instead of adding impact veterans to help McDavid/Draisaitl win. Wouldn't trading for Guentzel and giving up a prospect/1st be EXACTLY what fans were complaining Holland refused to do?

 

[RipsADrive]

If that's the cost for Guentzel I'm not interested personally.

I'd prefer to make depth additions to the lineup instead of blowing every asset for a big gun rental. The team has enough firepower.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Fair enough.

But in any case, it's a bit weird to see Oilers fans against the deal given one of the complaints I've seen from Oilers fans over the years is that Holland (I know it's a different GM now) kept hoarding his 1st round picks and prospects instead of adding impact veterans to help McDavid/Draisaitl win. Wouldn't trading for Guentzel and giving up a prospect/1st be EXACTLY what fans were complaining Holland refused to do?

A first is fine. A first plus is fine. Multiple firsts is fine for a guy we'd get a couple runs with (Like, say, Claude Giroux)

Two firsts equivalent plus a second that was looking pretty damn good before a shoulder injury de-railed him plus a third for a couple UFA's... even if the money did work, we'd better be damned sure that the resulting team could threaten for a Cup because the cupboard would be pretty freakin' empty after that.

 

[66-30-33]

Oilers don't have anything that interest me.

 

[Fourier]

Why is it guaranteed that Guentzel would be a rental? Honestly asking because I'm not paying attention to the Oilers' cap structure going forward.

The Oilers have Draisaitl, McDavid and Bouchard to re-sign. Even if they could figure out some way to fit him in next year, which would almost surely mean moving out a current key player, I can't see any way that make the kind of financial commitment to a winger that would be required. In the end if Guentzel wants more than $5M he is a pure rental. I think we all know that the chances he signs for that are slim and none.

 

[SEALBound]

Chychrun still had term on his deal, he wasn't a rental.

Iginla was traded 11 years ago for a 1st round pick, Ben Hanowski (3rd rounder) and Kenny Agostino ( a 5th round). So if you want a 1st, 3rd and 5th, lets go.

The problem is that he is a rental for edmonton. Honestly Pittsburgh could get a haul if someone is willing to do a sign and trade like the Timo Meier trade.

I mean, we can also point to guys like Horvat and Giroux who got significant returns as well. They were both UFAs and netted substantial returns.

The "Giroux return" is what Penguins fans are expecting: Owen Tippet (Young, NHL ready prospect with potential), 1st, 3rd.

 

[ElysiumAB]

Look I'm a fan of neither team yet I feel that there is a perfect fit between both teams.

Penguins, are currently on the outside looking in, and could really us a shift rebuild their prospect pool. They mindswell sell a few pieces, and retool for next year.

Is this like next level going from "might as well" to "mines as well" to "mindswell"?

Brain explode.gif

 

[Mitch nylander]

Would you like McDavid as well?

When was the last time a rental went for 2 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick?

Ned is worth the 3rd here. So basically Guentzel for Holloway, Akey & 1st.

Looking at forward deadline deals only. (kept it to recent examples)

• Claude Giroux went for Owen Tippett (1st round pick) + 1st round pick + 3rd rounder.
• Ryan O'Reilly + Noel Acciari went for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, Mikhail Abramov (4th rounder).
• Timo Meier + AHL fodder went for 1st, Shakir Mukhamudullin (1st), cond' 2nd, Nikita Okhotyuk (recent 2nd rounder with NHL games), Fabian Zetterlund (good young player, 3rd rounder
• Taylor Hall for 1st, 3rd, Nick Merkley (1st rounder), Kevin Bahl (2nd rounder), Nate Scharr (3rd rounder)
• Matt Duchene for 2 1sts, Vitaly Abramov (3rd rounder), Jonathan Davidson (late round prospect)
• Worse players like Pageau for 1st, 2nd 3rd, Tatar for a 1st, 2nd 3rd or Coleman 1st and recent 1st round prospect

Gotta pay to get. Especially for a big fish like Jake Guentzel

When was the last time a rental of Guentzel's caliber was available?

This deal includes a strong BUG too so...

Say Neds is the 3rd. Then it's Guentzel for a 1st and 2 average prospects. Hell, Jarome Iginla went for that. Chychrun last year got a 1st and 2 2nds.

My thought process as well.

 

[McDoused]

I mean, we can also point to guys like Horvat and Giroux who got significant returns as well. They were both UFAs and netted substantial returns.

The "Giroux return" is what Penguins fans are expecting: Owen Tippet (Young, NHL ready prospect with potential), 1st, 3rd.

Bo Horvat was signed less than week later by the islanders. Like the Chychrun comparison and Iginla (?) that one also doesn't work.

I will give you the Giroux trade. That was a heck of a return for Philly.

Keep in mind that Giroux and Tippett at that time aren't Giroux and Tippett now. Giroux was a center with one of the best faceoff percentages in the NHL with 61%, I think Giroux also got a bit more because he was the flyers captain that played 1000 games in the league. Giroux also wasn't injured when he was traded.

As far as Tippett goes, he was an unproven commodity. He definitely wasn't the 6.2M he is now. I would say hes pretty close to Dylan Holloway is now. I just don't see the Oilers making that mistake.

Holland has literally never even paid a 1st round pick for a rental let alone add another 1st, 2nd, ++

 

[SEALBound]

Bo Horvat was signed less than week later by the islanders. Like the Chychrun comparison and Iginla (?) that one also doesn't work.

I will give you the Giroux trade. That was a heck of a return for Philly.

Keep in mind that Giroux and Tippett at that time aren't Giroux and Tippett now. Giroux was a center with one of the best faceoff percentages in the NHL with 61%, I think Giroux also got a bit more because he was the flyers captain that played 1000 games in the league. Giroux also wasn't injured when he was traded.

As far as Tippett goes, he was an unproven commodity. He definitely wasn't the 6.2M he is now. I would say hes pretty close to Dylan Holloway is now. I just don't see the Oilers making that mistake.

Holland has literally never even paid a 1st round pick for a rental let alone add another 1st, 2nd, ++

Giroux was largely a wing at that point and that is how Florida intended to use him. Guentzel's injury is irrelevant as he will be back shortly after the deadline.

I would also like to point out that Girouz nor Horvat were 40 goal scorers like Guentzel.

Tippet produced MUCH better than Holloway. Honestly, Holloway does very little to move the needle for me in a Guentzel trade. Not saying he's a throw in but he's hardly a centerpiece. With the 1st being pretty late I'm not sure there's a deal to made. Unless there are a couple other prospects to swap. Like maybe adding Petrov or Lavoie gets it closer but...hard to like 1st+Holloway as a base.

 

[McDNicks17]

Giroux was largely a wing at that point and that is how Florida intended to use him. Guentzel's injury is irrelevant as he will be back shortly after the deadline.

I would also like to point out that Girouz nor Horvat were 40 goal scorers like Guentzel.

Tippet produced MUCH better than Holloway. Honestly, Holloway does very little to move the needle for me in a Guentzel trade. Not saying he's a throw in but he's hardly a centerpiece. With the 1st being pretty late I'm not sure there's a deal to made. Unless there are a couple other prospects to swap. Like maybe adding Petrov or Lavoie gets it closer but...hard to like 1st+Holloway as a base.

Tippett managed a whopping 14 points in Florida's top6 before the Giroux trade.

 

[Seachd]

Ned is worth the 3rd here. So basically Guentzel for Holloway, Akey & 1st.

Gotta pay to get. Especially for a big fish like Jake Guentzel

We need to keep in mind that Holland doesn’t trade first round picks for rentals. It doesn’t mean he won’t, it means he hasn’t. He’s talked about how he doesn’t like the idea of it.

 

[Former Referee 68]

Not a Chance!! way too much

 

[SEALBound]

Tippett managed a whopping 14 points in Florida's top6 before the Giroux trade.

Ah yeah, so like DOUBLE that of Holloway? Cool Cool Cool.

 

[Victor Z]

Ah yeah, so like DOUBLE that of Holloway? Cool Cool Cool.

Holloway is basically a younger version of Drew O'Connor or Jesse Puljujarvi, with even less scoring, but a nice "draft pedigree" (also like Pool Party). If he's the key piece to a deal where the Pens are giving up Jake + Ned.... that's an easy pass.

 

[McDNicks17]

Ah yeah, so like DOUBLE that of Holloway? Cool Cool Cool.

I sure hope someone would have double the points playing with Huberdeau and Bennett instead of Derek Ryan and Connor Brown haha.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Would love to land Guentzel.

Also like the fact Pens fans seem disinterested in Holloway. If they would prefer an additional first over Holloway I would gladly make that sub.

I say drop Ned from the OP’s proposal, just keep it with Guentzel for 2024 and 2025 1st plus Borgault (value diminished to a 2nd at best), plus Janmark going the other way. And we’d need a 3rd team for double retention.

If they’d take that, fantastic, but as previously mentioned, other teams probably beat that. Guentzel is a playoff beast.

 

[spaghtti]

I personally wouldn't trade any of Holloway, Akey or the 2024 1st round pick for a UFA