OHL Expansion

[razor ray]

Just curious with the success of the WHL "American Division" would you think the OHL might consider one as well? This was posted earlier this year:

When the OHL’s board of governors approved the Plymouth Whalers sale, which kept the franchise in Michigan, a logical followup question popped up: will there ever be an all-American division?

Saginaw Spirit president Craig Goslin is fascinated by the notion of creating a division that mirrors the WHL’s U.S. Division. The Otters, although in the process of being sold, appear primed to stay in Erie after the book closes on the Connor McDavid era.

Factor in Flint, plus two more, and there’s your division. Not as easy as it sounds, of course, but there have been whispers about folks in both the Chicago area and New York state expressing interest in the OHL."

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/02/26/ohl-has-no-desire-or-design-to-expand-david-branch

Fort Wayne, Toledo, Dayton, Indianapolis, Battle Creek MI, were just some thoughts.

Just curious what the people that follow the OHL close think.

Click to read more...

 

[three dog night]

Interesting read but would it not be better for a new America junior hockey league that can compete for the cup may solve the round robin tourney and have the league winners go in a best of five to determine the cup.

 

[NTDP]

Dayton, OH would be a long, long trip coming from places like Sudbury, Ottawa, North Bay, even from Owen Sound, the Soo, and Flint who are all in the west, let alone the teams in the far eastern part of Ontario. Who knows, it could happen, just look at the WHL as it spans across 4 provinces and as far south as Portland. I think Toledo could support a team for sure. They have a really nice arena that the ECHL's Toledo Walleye play in.

I think western NY could sell and OHL team also, as more kids are getting drafted and coming into the league from that state. However, the New York team would most likely be in the Eastern Conference and I'm not sure if the OHL would want the possibility of not having a Canadian based team in the final. (for example if Flint played Rochester). Maybe they wouldn't care, as this wouldn't be the norm. Idk, what are some of your guys thoughts?

 

[NTDP]

Interesting read but would it not be better for a new America junior hockey league that can compete for the cup may solve the round robin tourney and have the league winners go in a best of five to determine the cup.

I think it'd be best to just expand the USHL into a few different markets to add a few more teams to the league. As the teams are primarily based in the midwestern part of the country. Flint was in the running for a USHL team and probably would have gotten it if they OHL offer didn't come through when it did.

 

[ZinErie]

Teams like Sudbury, North Bay probably wouldn't be traveling to Dayton for a game. The league would probably schedule their trip to Dayton with a game in Erie. Having said that, a team in NY state eventually makes more sense.

 

[stormfanone]

It would just water down the league. 20 teams is enough.

 

[h10*]

It would just water down the league. 20 teams is enough.

I agree. With 20 teams after all trades are said and done there is generally only 3-4 teams that have a chance to win it all. Usually another 5 are solid average teams and the rest of the teams really have no chance. I think the competition in the league is solid but adding even 1-2 more teams would further separate the great teams from the bad teams and there is already a noticeable difference in that

 

[Stingland]

I agree. With 20 teams after all trades are said and done there is generally only 3-4 teams that have a chance to win it all. Usually another 5 are solid average teams and the rest of the teams really have no chance. I think the competition in the league is solid but adding even 1-2 more teams would further separate the great teams from the bad teams and there is already a noticeable difference in that

Totally agree. Don't water down the level of competition even more than it is now.

 

[frontsfan2005]

I don't see Dayton getting an OHL team at this time, I think if the league were to expand into Ohio, Toledo is the best bet. They have a nice new arena that seats close to 7500 for hockey, and the city does have a rivalry with places like Flint and Saginaw. It's also about 200 km closer than Dayton. Does anyone know if there is much of a junior hockey fan base there though? The ECHL Walleye draw very well.

I really think the league should try to get into NY State though. I think a city like Buffalo would support a team pretty well, however, they don't have a junior hockey sized rink. They did host an Otters game this past season that was very well attended at First Niagara Center, and other junior hockey teams that share an arena with an NHL team (Vancouver Giants, Edmonton Oil Kings and Calgary Hitmen) usually draw pretty well.

In Ontario, I think Cornwall is at the top of the list right now, they have an OHL ready rink that seats 5000 and would fit in nicely in the Eastern part of the province, now with the Bulls gone to Hamilton. If a city like Brantford and Chatham could get an OHL calibre rink built, they'd be favourites to get a team too. Same with Belleville.

 

[From Up Top]

With the NHL looking to expand in the near future, I wouldn't be surprised if the OHL follows suit with a pair of teams of their own. I remember reading somewhere that the league had considered an All-American Division, but I don't really see it working considering the league is focused on geography, and reducing travel. Putting Saginaw in the same division as a team in New York State wouldn't make much sense because of travel reasons.

 

[bobber]

Expansion is a risky venture in the US. Hockey is not the most popular sport like here in Canada. You have to have owners with deep pockets that can that can absorb losing money. Some Ontario teams are struggling to keep fans as prices go up. It's all about the bottom line in this business.

 

[BenchedGuy]

For something like this to work, relocation is much more feasible than expansion.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Anything in the US would probably need to be in upstate New York. As long as the ECHL is in Toledo that is not an option, and Battle Creek is only 15 minutes from Kalamazoo (NCAA hockey) and a little over an hour away from Grand Rapids (AHL) and East Lansing (NCAA). Traverse City is probably the only viable market currently in Michigan, and that would add 3 hours of additional travel from the nearest team (Saginaw). Getting any further west (Indiana, Illinois, etc.) or south (Dayton) changes the travel dynamics of the league.

 

[willy29]

Don't think expansion will happen in the next few years as there are a few teams having problem getting 1500-2000 people consistently to an OHL game. Peterborough, Mississauga, etc.

Plus teams with aging buildings with little or poor amenities.

 

[h10*]

I don't see Dayton getting an OHL team at this time, I think if the league were to expand into Ohio, Toledo is the best bet. They have a nice new arena that seats close to 7500 for hockey, and the city does have a rivalry with places like Flint and Saginaw. It's also about 200 km closer than Dayton. Does anyone know if there is much of a junior hockey fan base there though? The ECHL Walleye draw very well.

I really think the league should try to get into NY State though. I think a city like Buffalo would support a team pretty well, however, they don't have a junior hockey sized rink. They did host an Otters game this past season that was very well attended at First Niagara Center, and other junior hockey teams that share an arena with an NHL team (Vancouver Giants, Edmonton Oil Kings and Calgary Hitmen) usually draw pretty well.

In Ontario, I think Cornwall is at the top of the list right now, they have an OHL ready rink that seats 5000 and would fit in nicely in the Eastern part of the province, now with the Bulls gone to Hamilton. If a city like Brantford and Chatham could get an OHL calibre rink built, they'd be favourites to get a team too. Same with Belleville.

75% of that crowd in buffalo for the otters game this past year was the mcdavid factor. Buffalo practically thought he was already on their team as fans lined up to watch him and buy jerseys. The rest of the fans were largely fans from back in Erie who made the 1.5 hour trip to buffalo to watch the team

 

[SeniorJuniorFan]

BenchedGuy nailed it - re-lo rather than expand. The talent level is thin enough and 20 seems to be the optimum number for now. There are enough potential casualties in the league and it is just a matter of time. I also believe it would be a dream come true for the Commissioner.

 

[battfan888]

A US division works in the WHL because all 5 of their American teams are all relatively in the same area. If there was a WHL team in North Dakota or Minnesota I don't think they would be in the same division as Seattle and Portland.

You can't stick a OHL team in update New York and another in Toledo and go ok you guys are in a division with Erie, Saginaw and Flint.

Also people keep saying Toledo but that aint happening while they have an ECHL team. The Walleye would have to be out of the picture before the OHL can step in there.

Also put me in the "20 is enough" camp

 

[Hammer9001]

A think a US division is a bit of a non-starter. I mean, where do you go where there isn't either an NHL team, an AHL team or are already too close to an existing OHL team? Only three spots that come to mind are Toledo (who already has an ECHL team to Toledo Walleye), Lansing (who is awfully close to Flint) and Jamestown (who would need a new arena). I think Dayton is just too far a distance from the rest of the OHL. I mean that's a LONG drive to Ottawa, North Bay, Sudbury. 10 hours+

If I was going to expand (and I don't think I would at this point, given how many kids the NCAA seem to now be snaring) I'd be looking at Cornwall (who might have a population issue), Belleville/Trenton (who has arena issues), Chatham (who has arena issues) and Brantford (who has arena issues).

 

[Beast Mowed]

A think a US division is a bit of a non-starter. I mean, where do you go where there isn't either an NHL team, an AHL team or are already too close to an existing OHL team? Only three spots that come to mind are Toledo (who already has an ECHL team to Toledo Walleye), Lansing (who is awfully close to Flint) and Jamestown (who would need a new arena). I think Dayton is just too far a distance from the rest of the OHL. I mean that's a LONG drive to Ottawa, North Bay, Sudbury. 10 hours+

If I was going to expand (and I don't think I would at this point, given how many kids the NCAA seem to now be snaring) I'd be looking at Cornwall (who might have a population issue), Belleville/Trenton (who has arena issues), Chatham (who has arena issues) and Brantford (who has arena issues).

I don't think Jamestown would be able to support a team. Johnstown on the other hand.....If they didn't have another team at the War Memorial would be a different story. Still 3 hours South of Erie because of the way the roads go in & out of there.

Akron has always been compared "similar to Erie" as far as size, 2 hours from Erie. As stated maybe Toledo if the other team wasn't there. Buffalo or upstate NY maybe. The problem is, a lot of "Great Lakes" towns are actually losing population.

 

[buzzworthy]

Snowmover, I agree with you. Jamestown to too small of a population, and even with a new arena, they are too close to Erie. The Jamestown Savings Arena is very nice, but only holds 2,500. They could not support an NAHL team. They would not build a new arena. Johnstown is an intriguing possibility, but again, travel distance, a declining population, and economic issues would make it very difficult for them to sustain a franchise. Even though they have supported their NAHL franchise very well (over 2,000 per game), the increase in ticket prices would doom them to failure. Expansion is a non-starter. I wouldn't be surprised if the OHL lost a franchise or 2 over the next few years and pare down to 18 teams. There is simply nowhere else to go.

 

[bobber]

In hockey size doesn't matter. Look no further than Hamilton who had what four teams or so and never supported them. This is probably their last kick at the can. Waterloo Ontario has a couple of people that keep popping up every year or so saying they have the money to put a team there. When the Rangers had their camp and a few exhibition games there only a few Ranger fans showed up. You really have to do your due diligence before laying out money for a venture like OHL hockey. More US teams will not work at this stage in the game.

 

[Beast Mowed]

The one thing to consider about Johnstown is the Pittsburgh connection. If you have Pittsburgh draft picks there or visiting, you'll get the spectators. Another factor is entertainment value for the money. Way less expensive than attending an NHL game.

There used to be a couple that traveled from what I would call "near" (100 mile or so drive) Johnstown that sat by us at EIA a few years back, maybe someone that posts here? They said they did the trip to & from without staying overnight. That right there is dedicated hockey fans.

 

[buzzworthy]

Snowmover, I am originally from Johnstown. I watched the Jets, then the Chiefs, and even attended a few Panther games. I hate to brag, but my wife and I drive 230 miles round trip to all the Otters games. We now live near Smethport, PA. Even before I retired, we drove during weeknights to attend the games. Both of us worked full time. Now we don't have to worry about those late night blizzard drives through the snow belt of I-86. I would be curious to see if anyone else drives as far to every game as we do. We do have friends who sit behind us from Ashtabula, OH. Their drive is about 100 miles r/t. Still, that is some serious dedication!

 

[Beast Mowed]

It's not bragging if you can back it up! Smethport is a hike as well for taking in a game & driving back the same night. Fans like you keep the team going. Thank you!

 

[Whalers Fan]

Snowmover, I am originally from Johnstown. I watched the Jets, then the Chiefs, and even attended a few Panther games. I hate to brag, but my wife and I drive 230 miles round trip to all the Otters games. We now live near Smethport, PA. Even before I retired, we drove during weeknights to attend the games. Both of us worked full time. Now we don't have to worry about those late night blizzard drives through the snow belt of I-86. I would be curious to see if anyone else drives as far to every game as we do. We do have friends who sit behind us from Ashtabula, OH. Their drive is about 100 miles r/t. Still, that is some serious dedication!

There was a group of Saginaw fans who would always sit in front of us at the Plymouth games. A subset of them would travel to almost all the team's away games, as well as attend their home games. Now that's dedication! They were very nice people, and I always looked forward to the games versus the Spirit just so we could visit with them.