Offseason Thread vol. XII - "Stop filling thread with spam posts" Edition

[Xspyrit]

2 bad seasons and 1 good season for Greening. He's an AHLer without a healthy Spezza.

Thing is Colin Greening (and he is the player I dislike the most on the team) has NEVER been overpaid. Please try to have a bit of perspective people...

http://www.capgeek.com/player/1711

2010-11 : $735,000 (in his first (partial) season, so pro-rated on the number of days he was with the team, not a lot of money and had some pretty good stats for a fresh NHL player)
2011-12 : $700,000 (one of the best bargains in the NHL)
2012-13 : $800,000 (not as good as his rookie season, but still a great bargain. 8-11-19 in 47 games, pro-rated as 14-19-33 over a full 82 games season. Also, great showing in the playoffs)
2013-14 : $950,000 (not a great year and was barely worth his contract, even under a million. Still not overpaid)

Greening is not an AHLer, he's a bottom-6 player on a team that has little depth after 6-7 great forwards eating much of the cap space. However, if he plays like last year, he is not worth keeping on your team based on his new salary. If he plays more like he did the rest of his NHL career, he is a good LW to move between your 3rd and 4th line. I remember a few years ago, when "some" people were hyping Greening. I was among the crowd saying he was a glorified bottom-6 player, 3rd LW at best.

For the Sens, it makes sense to move him to "lighten" the budget and give more opportunity room to younger players. We don't need Greening anymore, was a good serviceable player for 4 years but not a guy you hang onto. In hindsight, it would have been better to not sign him. No management is perfect and even the best HF rated ones get "fire the GM" threads...

You're laying it on a bit thick with the hyperbole. Greening's had as many points or more than Bolland in every season where they've both been NHL regulars. And before you point me to games played, part of a player's worth comes from how often he's actually on the ice. Whether he was on pace to best him or not isn't particularly relevant at this stage.

Not to mention an unsustainably low shooting percentage for Greening last year, an unsustainably high one for Bolland, and the fact that Greening's 225 hits in 76 games far outstrips Bolland's 38 in 23.

Greening's been crucified all offseason for his rough season. And yeah, he had a bad one. Not defending that. But the hyperbole is rapidly reaching "Phillips only points," "Filly don't do rebounds" and "Matt Gilroy eats babies" status.

Thank you for inserting a bit of common sense on this board, always needed.

It really is. There seems to be some kind of group mentality around here where people get off on hating the same guys that others hate.

It's odd.

Im all for being critical of a player, but when it comes to Greening its going way overboard. Saying that he doesn't even belong in the league is a tad ridiculous.

Sucks because I can't "hate" Greening in peace... Now I have defend him because it goes beyond ridiculous.

I have always been very critical of Greening, being one of the first (if not the first) to say "plays die on his stick". It's so badly worded that it's a proof it comes from me

I dislike Greening because outside of one season playing with Spezza he's been a 4th liner at best. Not good defensively, cant do offense and cant PK. He's only good for hitting consistently but not hard and the occasional fight.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/greenco01.html

My Gawd, give me 4th liners that can produce at a 0.40-0.54 pace any day of the week. That's what Coling Greening has done all the time prior to last year, even without Spezza.

IMO, this debate is a good example that shows who base their opinion on HF perceptions.

All that being said, I'm in the crowd that badly hope we trade him.

meh. Big negative about Greening is the contract. Makes him hard to move. Guys like him are a dime a dozen at this level.

He's basically just a placeholder until the kids force themselves onto the roster.

The bad part is we may have to eat his contract if we can't trade him when the time comes....but even Eugene should be able to afford that.

Best way to describe guys like Greening and Condra. Remember when they first made the team, our prospect still wasn't built up, mainly drafted/traded D-men with upside (Karlsson, Cowen, Wiercioch, Rundblad). We had not much depth when we started the rebuild.

omg, some people will moan about everything. Whats a good salary for Greening like a million less? give me a break. You will never be happy if you nitpick to such an extent. especially when its all predicated on some mystical internal cap value

This. Exactly. Imagine if people do that in real life... Sad thing is that some people do.

 

[BondraTime]

And the team not being allowed to trade without sending equal salary out... That sucks when needing to improve an area like the blue line last season and being unable to

A Bobby Ryan re-signing would be huge for confidence... If the team has to trade him, then getting him in the first place was a huge waste of time

Exactly. "If" they don't resign him, it shows how little they thought ahead of the move. You trade for a guy like Bobby Ryan when you intend to have him as part of your core moving forward. He is 27 years old, not a rental.

If/When he is resigned, the Sens will have a better picture of where they are going, what they are doing in creating a winning environment. They will have a Number 1 D, Great Number 2 Center with room to improve, Great number 3 Center with room to improve, Top line goal scoring winger, and young potential number 1 goalie.

If Cowen turns it around and becomes the player he looked to be becoming 2-3 years ago, there is a very strong core coming through, and potential free agent signings in 1-2 years to fill out a scoring winger, another top 4 D, this team could look very dangerous in 2 years.

 

[Quo]

Melnyk posts to the Melnyk thread s'il vous plait.

 

[Canop]

Today i went to an arena in streetsville where some NHL,OHL, and AHL players were holding scrimmage and i saw some player with a helmet that had a Senators' logo and the number 13. Number 13 was worn by Peter Regin but it couldn't be him. I was not able to recognize his face either so i was wondering if you guys may know who it was.

I also saw Spezza there. Among others present were Giordano, Skinner, Mcdavid, M. Subban, Coliacovo, Stuart Percy, Strome, Brett and Nick Ritchie.
Spezza by far was the best player present and he ended up scoring 2 goals on Malcolm Subban.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Today i went to an arena in streetsville where some NHL,OHL, and AHL players were holding scrimmage and i saw some player with a helmet that had a Senators' logo and the number 13. Number 13 was worn by Peter Regin but it couldn't be him. I was not able to recognize his face either so i was wondering if you guys may know who it was.

I also saw Spezza there. Among others present were Giordano, Skinner, Mcdavid, M. Subban, Coliacovo, Stuart Percy, Strome, Brett and Nick Ritchie.
Spezza by far was the best player present and he ended up scoring 2 goals on Malcolm Subban.

Where's Streetsville? I know Regin is engaged to a local Ottawa girl who is great friends with my sister. So, if it was Ottawa, I wouldn't be surprised if he was present.

 

[HSF]

And Hemsky. Not in the same class as those other two but they still low balled the crap out of him and never gave themselves a chance to sign him with those financials.

Hemsky wasn't staying if Spezza wasn't

he pretty much confirmed it

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Sucks because I can't "hate" Greening in peace... Now I have defend him because it goes beyond ridiculous.

I have always been very critical of Greening, being one of the first (if not the first) to say "plays die on his stick". It's so badly worded that it's a proof it comes from me

I don't think anyone defending Greening was happy with how he played last year. The same way that people defending SPezza last season were happy with how he was playing.

Its just about trying to balance out the hyperbole and bandwagoning that can go on around here. It's funny though, that if somebody goes against the flow and says "hey lets not go overboard" they can be labelled as a cheerleader when they're anything but.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Hemsky wasn't staying if Spezza wasn't

he pretty much confirmed it

Yeah I remember that interview. They pressured him about whether he wanted to stay in Ottawa and he said he wanted to play with a 'high end center'. Said pretty much the exact same thing every time. He all but said he wanted to play with Spezza.

Nobody was surprised when Dallas signed him.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Hemsky wasn't staying if Spezza wasn't

he pretty much confirmed it

Easy fix would be to keep Spezza then. 2 top line players for 8M next year would have been a bargain.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Easy fix would be to keep Spezza then. 2 top line players for 8M next year would have been a bargain.

I would have loved to see it. I always thought that with Spezza and TUrris this team was ready to compete if they brought in a couple guys to plug the holes. They already had one in Hemsky.

I guess the team, or Spezza felt differently. WHo really knows what's going on there.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I would have loved to see it. I always thought that with Spezza and TUrris this team was ready to compete if they brought in a couple guys to plug the holes. They already had one in Hemsky.

I guess the team, or Spezza felt differently. WHo really knows what's going on there.

I feel the same way. I think the team was just being cheap though. Could have competed in this weak ass conference.

 

[Super Cake]

I feel the same way. I think the team was just being cheap though. Could have competed in this weak ass conference.

Honestly, this conference is giving gms false illusions. This conference being weak can possibly be making gms think their team is better than it really is. Yes, having spezza and hemsky may make us a better team that can compete in the east, but it wouldn't bring us closer to a cup. We need to start building a team that can compete in the west as well as the east.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Easy fix would be to keep Spezza then. 2 top line players for 8M next year would have been a bargain.

Murray says they offered Spezza an extension and he said he didn't want to stay

 

[BigRig4]

Easy fix would be to keep Spezza then. 2 top line players for 8M next year would have been a bargain.

Might have looked good for next year, but after that you've gotta either give Spezza a huge extension as a 32 year old or lose him for nothing to free agency. Good complimentary player to a team looking to compete but not the cornerstone to build a young team like the Sens around.

 

[Super Cake]

Sens should package Chaisson, Weircioch and a pick to try to get either another top 6 winger or a top 4 dman.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Easy fix would be to keep Spezza then. 2 top line players for 8M next year would have been a bargain.

Easy fix for next year(maybe not lol), terrible fix for future.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Easy fix for next year(maybe not lol), terrible fix for future.

Quite possibly. If they make real commitments to Ryan and the rest, I won't freak out.

 

[Flamingo]

Where's Streetsville? I know Regin is engaged to a local Ottawa girl who is great friends with my sister. So, if it was Ottawa, I wouldn't be surprised if he was present.

Mississauga

 

[The Fuhr*]

Murray says they offered Spezza an extension and he said he didn't want to stay

Spezza said that's because the team was not committed to winning and looking at what the Sens Are spending this season and last, can't say I disagree with him.

Even Melnyk agrees got to spend money
“To be competitive you have to be at least in the top half of spenders. That’s a stat, it’s not just something I’ve made up . . . if you’re not you don’t have much of a chance, it’s just not going to happen.†(2013)
----

So Spezza wanting to leave makes sense... Teams not committed to winning

 

[Mr Invidious]

Spezza said that's because the team was not committed to winning and looking at what the Sens Are spending this season and last, can't say I disagree with him.

Direct quote, eh?

 

[The Fuhr*]

Direct quote, eh?

When he went to Dallas he said this.
"Yeah, I think there's a lot of positives to this move for me. First and foremost, I think it gives me a chance to compete for the Stanley Cup and at this point in my career is all I'm looking for."

On why Dallas has become a desirable destination for players:

"I think the opportunity to compete, I think it's paramount to be in an organization that's committed to winning. I think that word gets around the League fast that when a team has made a decision to try to be a team that tries to compete every year and win. This city and they've had success in the past and the fans have been great in the past and kind of the total package makes it a desirable place to be."
-----

He rejected the Sens offer...because Ottawa is none of that right now

 

[JoeSakic]

I can't wait for Ottawa to trade Spezza so we can stop talking about Spezza.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Those are some big words from a guy that refuses to play at both ends of the rink. I loved Spezza in his time here, but he needs to accept that he was part of the problem here, especially last year.

 

[HSF]

Easy fix would be to keep Spezza then. 2 top line players for 8M next year would have been a bargain.

Spezza wasn't staying


Did you miss the whole off season?

 

[Xspyrit]

I don't think anyone defending Greening was happy with how he played last year. The same way that people defending SPezza last season were happy with how he was playing.

Its just about trying to balance out the hyperbole and bandwagoning that can go on around here. It's funny though, that if somebody goes against the flow and says "hey lets not go overboard" they can be labelled as a cheerleader when they're anything but.

I guess it makes no sense to be a neutral rational even keel type of person in this world. Reality is always closer to the middle than the extremes. No player is close to perfection, and no player is close to be crap, this is the NHL. The best of the best play here.

I would have loved to see it. I always thought that with Spezza and TUrris this team was ready to compete if they brought in a couple guys to plug the holes. They already had one in Hemsky.

I guess the team, or Spezza felt differently. WHo really knows what's going on there.

Yeah, really wanted to see a full season of Spezza + Hemsky (like if he signed a 1 year deal)

Problem is if they walk for nothing at the end of the season, would have been even more harder on the fanbase.

That being said, I'm moving on already. Life's too short

Might have looked good for next year, but after that you've gotta either give Spezza a huge extension as a 32 year old or lose him for nothing to free agency. Good complimentary player to a team looking to compete but not the cornerstone to build a young team like the Sens around.

Yup, I thought that was very risky... particularly if he puts up good numbers in a "healthy year"