Speculation: Offseason Thread II: ideas, proposals, general roster discussion

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

It's rough out there on the streets.

But I'll say this ... I don't think the CBJ are worse today than they were when the season ended.

I don't love some of the returns but clearly this isn't just a CBJ problem. I don't think it's bs to speculate that there could be opportunities to pounce on a team in a bad situation down the road. CBJ now have the flexibility to do so.

Might not happen. But I don't think Jarmo's approach is unreasonable.

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[ViD]

It's rough out there on the streets.

But I'll say this ... I don't think the CBJ are worse today than they were when the season ended.

I don't love some of the returns but clearly this isn't just a CBJ problem. I don't think it's bs to speculate that there could be opportunities to pounce on a team in a bad situation down the road. CBJ now have the flexibility to do so.

Might not happen. But I don't think Jarmo's approach is unreasonable.

Our offense got better, but out defense got worse, there’s no arguing Kukan or Peeke are on the same level as healthy Murray

 

[lilfedor]

Im down with that, problem is does our ownership have the stomach for a $10-$11 million contract offer right now?

absolutely.

would you trade pld + 2 first rounders for Barzal for 7 years x 10 million?

That’s essentially what this would be. Of course, pending he’d sign it.

 

[lilfedor]

Our offense got better, but out defense got worse, there’s no arguing Kukan or Peeke are on the same level as healthy Murray

“Healthy” is only there 50% of the time.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

its a flat cap pandemic league... people arent paying full price to take on cap.

If people aren't wanting to spend money because of the pandemic and we basically gave them away, then why is Jarmo afraid of an offer sheet? As pointed out, the Islanders have less cap space than we do and they didn't go clearing assets because they were afraid of a Barzal offer sheet. Lou Lamoriello hasn't gone into a panic. I'm a long time Devils fan and Lou knows what he is doing.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

take the four first round picks, let him go.

Immediately offer sheet Barzal. Done.

Nobody is offersheeting Dubois for 11 million which is exactly what it takes for 4 1st round picks this year.

He probably falls into the $6,544,641 - $8,726,188 AAV territory which is nothing more the a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Viqsi]

Previously: Speculation: - Offseason Thread: ideas, proposals, general roster discussion

EDIT: Moved some of the last few posts from that thread here, so this is no longer the OP. We apologize for the confusion, if there is any.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I have a feeling we won’t be seeing a third offseason thread

 

[lilfedor]

Nobody is offersheeting Dubois for 11 million which is exactly what it takes for 4 1st round picks this year.

He probably falls into the $6,544,641 - $8,726,188 AAV territory which is nothing more the a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

If that’s the amount than cbj immediately matches.

 

[mikeyp24]

Our offense got better, but out defense got worse, there’s no arguing Kukan or Peeke are on the same level as healthy Murray

Keyword healthy. How many full seasons does he play?

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

If that’s the amount than cbj immediately matches.

Exactly. He'll probably wind up in that range anyway in the 6.5 to 7 range.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

It's rough out there on the streets.

But I'll say this ... I don't think the CBJ are worse today than they were when the season ended.

I don't love some of the returns but clearly this isn't just a CBJ problem. I don't think it's bs to speculate that there could be opportunities to pounce on a team in a bad situation down the road. CBJ now have the flexibility to do so.

Might not happen. But I don't think Jarmo's approach is unreasonable.

In some aspects I agree.

I think our offense has gotten better, but not significantly. IIRC we were in the mid to late 20s in offense in the regular season. I say with our moves thus far, we get to the low 20s to late teens. A small step forward, but nothing too crazy. Our offensive depth is meh.

Defensively we're marginally worse. I say marginally because Murray was a solid player when healthy, but we all know that story. Our depth here took a massive hit, because now we rely on Clendening and Carlsson to potentially get decent minutes at the NHL level. Not to mention Harrington is going to play a lot too.

Goalies are obviously the same.

Factor in potential improvement by our younger guys, potential regression from our older guys, and the other additions across the division/Eastern conference, I would say we're basically in the same boat as last year. A playoff bubble team, maybe on the upper end of it, with potential to win a metro spot.

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

We aren’t winning a cup as currently constructed. We’re going into year 7 or 8 in Jarmo’s tenure. It’s unacceptable that we haven’t truly threatened for a cup yet. This team needs to add another quality forward this offseason or we’re looking at status quo results.

 

[ViD]

We aren’t winning a cup as currently constructed. We’re going into year 7 or 8 in Jarmo’s tenure. It’s unacceptable that we haven’t truly threatened for a cup yet. This team needs to add another quality forward this offseason or we’re looking at status quo results.

That’s kinda false though. The 18-19 team was very much capable of winning the cup, we got a bit unlucky with the Bruins.

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

Unlucky they ran into a great team that another great team didn’t take out first? Huh?

 

[lilfedor]

Exactly. He'll probably wind up in that range anyway in the 6.5 to 7 range.

I disagree only because of this was the case than the deal would already be completed.

there’s only two reasons that I can see this contract getting stalemated. First, is PLD is asking for the minimum number of years to take him to UFA status so he can leave Columbus. Which, of course, the organization doesn’t like and is countering. The second is that PLD’s agent is coming in at an alarmingly high number that the jackets just find to be far to much for his current play and development. Say, 9M x 8 years.

neither side is willing to budge and thus, they’re waiting for an offer sheet to come through so that they can simply match.

 

[Dumais]

I said before all this doom and gloom took place:

Kinda thinking Jarmo might be done.

2 Good young centers w/room to grow.
2 Elite young defensemen w/room to grow.
2 Good young goalies w/room to grow.
Good depth
Great coach
Great GM

I think we might be good till TDL. And considering we've made the playoffs 4 straight years...might even be contenders (if everyone keeps developing). Probably be best to wait and see if injuries pop up and see what is needed later. Sorry bummer I know. But good news, this might be the most complete team we've had that isn't full of rentals. Could be the best couple of years yet being a CBJ fan!

And I stand by it.

Murray, Nuti damn, but they were fat. Murray is what he is and I liked him better than most. Nuti, is possible top pairing capable (not going to be) and could become a main stay top 4 (will be for FLA) and have a nice career...but not here. Unlike the players that "hold more value to us, than another team" Nuti is the opposite. I'm glad for him, and Murray. What we got back? Cap space and that's good enough for me. But only if Jarmo does something with it. I don't care much for the current FA (including Hall & Petro) I would still rather wait till TDL. And also see what problems TBL do, not that I expect them to deal directly with CBJ...they probably don't want to make us better =)

Anyways, the new balance (been begging for a 2c) will help everyone out more than any individual player could. Torts being able to juggle lines, PLD/Domi w/ Werenski/Jones on a PP together, late in the game while down a goal (O.M.G). And if Cam (or for that matter any forward) is not having his bounce back year they can play him with a completely different center to get him going. Oh yeah, and which Center is better? Barzal!?!? We have a playmaker in Domi...

Still a playoff team...we have Torts

 

[ViD]

Unlucky they ran into a great team that another great team didn’t take out first? Huh?

Even this year team with Panarin and a center like Domi would definitely have a strong chance of beating the eventual Stanley cup champion

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I disagree only because of this was the case than the deal would already be completed.

there’s only two reasons that I can see this contract getting stalemated. First, is PLD is asking for the minimum number of years to take him to UFA status so he can leave Columbus. Which, of course, the organization doesn’t like and is countering. The second is that PLD’s agent is coming in at an alarmingly high number that the jackets just find to be far to much for his current play and development. Say, 9M x 8 years.

neither side is willing to budge and thus, they’re waiting for an offer sheet to come through so that they can simply match.

I bet Jarmo is trying to get him into the same 3 yr 5 mil (maybe as high as 6 mil) bridge deal that Werenski took. PLD and his agent probably want in the 7 mil range and over a longer term. I can't see them insisting on more than that because his numbers don't warrant it. He's not an established superstar with extremely good numbers. He's got really strong numbers with the potential for better numbers.

I don't think the yearly AAV is the issue. I think the bigger stumbling block is the length of term. I just don't see anyone offer sheeting him for that AAV or more. It's just not worth it.

Either way, this is going to go on for a long time because I'm sure his agent and Barzal's agent want to use each other as a comparable to pin down the other's deal.

 

[Theo Von]

I said before all this doom and gloom took place:

And I stand by it.

Murray, Nuti damn, but they were fat. Murray is what he is and I liked him better than most. Nuti, is possible top pairing capable (not going to be) and could become a main stay top 4 (will be for FLA) and have a nice career...but not here. Unlike the players that "hold more value to us, than another team" Nuti is the opposite. I'm glad for him, and Murray. What we got back? Cap space and that's good enough for me. But only if Jarmo does something with it. I don't care much for the current FA (including Hall & Petro) I would still rather wait till TDL. And also see what problems TBL do, not that I expect them to deal directly with CBJ...they probably don't want to make us better =)

Anyways, the new balance (been begging for a 2c) will help everyone out more than any individual player could. Torts being able to juggle lines, PLD/Domi w/ Werenski/Jones on a PP together, late in the game while down a goal (O.M.G). And if Cam (or for that matter any forward) is not having his bounce back year they can play him with a completely different center to get him going. Oh yeah, and which Center is better? Barzal!?!? We have a playmaker in Domi...

Still a playoff team...we have Torts

I stopped reading your post the second I read "Nuti is possible top pairing capable". I'm known to be extremely optimistic on these boards but good golly, what did I just read.

 

[Dumais]

I stopped reading your post the second I read "Nuti is possible top pairing capable". I'm known to be extremely optimistic on these boards but good golly, what did I just read.

Ok whatever

 

[Antawn]

Either way, this is going to go on for a long time because I'm sure his agent and Barzal's agent want to use each other as a comparable to pin down the other's deal.

Great point that I hadn't seen. PLD is waiting Barzal, and Barzal can't get a deal cause it would take the NYI to the edge of the cap. Please, DET, offer sheet Barzal and get it moving.

 

[Crede777]

Jackets can't make a major move until PLD gets signed.

So if PLD would like a big time winger to play with next season, he should probably take that 6.5 x 3 offer or whatever's on the table.

 

[MAHJ71]

So with Koivu now on board and probable internal cap ..

Let’s say we get PLD and Gav signed up in the next week ... is any target of Cirelli now unrealistic?

 

[DJA]

So with Koivu now on board and probable internal cap ..

Let’s say we get PLD and Gav signed up in the next week ... is any target of Cirelli now unrealistic?

once PLD and Gav are signed, the off-season moves will be done. But sounds like Jarmo is willing to wait months to get these done.
I’m guessing total $9M for both of these guys and marginal raises for Stenlund and Carlson, leaving us $5M short of the cap (not counting Dubi)
So I’m guessing the internal cap is set around $76M
(If we find a taker for Dubi contract with a draft pick sweetener, even better for ownership, they’ll come in right around $70M which is probably ideal for the FO)