Speculation: Offseason Thread #3: Literally Summer / Nothing Is Superior to Something Dumb

[New York RKY]

My favorite part of bernie's proposals was when he traded AV to Ottawa (I think).

I kinda just want to know what he's going to do if they decide to trade Kreider.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Not really liking Larry's ideas.

Well aside from Kreider for Faulk which would never happen.

Stepan and Klein for Coyle/Grablund and Brodin/Dumba? What is the incentive for that. Maybe I just am not high enough on Dumba.

Am I crazy for being skeptical of Stepan for RNH?

Mostly disappointing that it looks like a pure deck chair reshuffling. Barring a ridiculous steal of a deal like Kreider for Faulk.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I don't like how the direction of this team has to do with Hank's window.

He's a hall of fame goalie, but the team shouldn't be making bad decisions just to accommodate him.

He's part of the problem as well. Into his mid 30's, declining, makes a lot of money. We can still win with Hank, but we should be trying to rebuild, and I think that should include trading Hank.

I love the guy, but whatever happened to it being about the name on the front of the sweater.

Cynically I see this as more of an excuse to keep on with the same ol', remain competitive / sell tickets / get ratings than a true mantra.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

1) Nash for Shattenkirk

2) Klein for Pouliot

3) Sign Vesey


Kreider Stepan Vesey
Pouliot Brassard Zuccarello
Miller Hayes Buchnevich
Hrivik Lindberg Fast

McDonagh McIlrath
Staal Shattenkirk
Skjei Girardi

Lundqvist
Raanta

Would that really be so bad?


Final thought: I just love how lineups look without Dan Boyle in them.

Goodnight all!
See ya in the morning when we acquire Stamkos's rights for Ryan McDonagh.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

Not really liking Larry's ideas.

Well aside from Kreider for Faulk which would never happen.

Stepan and Klein for Coyle/Grablund and Brodin/Dumba? What is the incentive for that. Maybe I just am not high enough on Dumba.

Am I crazy for being skeptical of Stepan for RNH?

Mostly disappointing that it looks like a pure deck chair reshuffling. Barring a ridiculous steal of a deal like Kreider for Faulk.

No, you're 100% spot-on.

Aside from Kreider for Faulk which is unrealistic, those are all lateral deals at best. Just reshuffling as you said. Those are all "change of scenery" trades that make no real sense.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I think vesey is a pipe dream... He wants Boston.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

I think vesey is a pipe dream... He wants Boston.

Not saying you're wrong. Just saying that's what they said about Hayes when he was in the same position.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him on a number of different teams.

 

[Raspewtin]

Kreider is a funny way to spell McDonagh + Hayes for Faulk.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Read Brooks article on the train back from the Yankee game and I'm not really sure what to say about it. The team wants a reset, which is fine, but doesn't seem to want to move the players that actually cause the issues.

It's actually a little mind numbing

 

[darko]

Kreider is a funny way to spell McDonagh + Hayes for Faulk.

Exactly.

 

[Leetch3]

Read Brooks article on the train back from the Yankee game and I'm not really sure what to say about it. The team wants a reset, which is fine, but doesn't seem to want to move the players that actually cause the issues.

It's actually a little mind numbing

can't and don't want to are different

 

[kovazub94]

First, we are part of "hockey industry" according to uncle Larry since I believe the debate title "rebuild vs retool" regarding Rangers originated here.
Second, I do feel sceptical of Larry's trade proposals but he got right (or was told) the assets that are on the table seems right. With one exception that surprised me: Larry not once mentions Brassard who shouldn't be among the untouchables. Why?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

can't and don't want to are different

They can move their problems, it's a cop out to say "oh well the Rangers can't move their problem guys, so let's forget about it". It can be done. They just aren't giving any indication they are willing/want to address the issues.

Even if it was rumored they were shopping Staal/Girardi, I would be so sastified. At least that shows they are trying. Instead we get before the summer even starts that Girardi won't be bought out/asked to waive his NMC, and Staal won't be moved for god knows what reason.

It's frustrating.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I appreciate Brooks' generally honest take in his articles, and the info he provides, but man does he ever need to stop with the trade proposals. Faulk for Kreider? Stepan for RNH? Does he have any semblance of understanding of other team's needs? Jesus.

And as much as I hate to take a turn beating that drum, there's just no way this team stays competitive next year if they're carrying Staal and Girardi on the blue line unless they're getting extremely sheltered minutes.

Well said. This is my issue too. You can call it whatever you want, but no plan that includes keeping G and Staal as the D-core is anything but window dressing.

This team isn't getting better if they're not moving out. If you can't move them, you're rebuilding. It's not a retool when you exchange players in other positions and leave that gaping hole. Period.

Stepan and Nash or Kreider out to bring in Shatty or Barrie or Dumba and Coyle, etc etc doesn't change a thing if those two remain a major part of the cap and lineup.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Lmao at Justin Faulk for Kreider. I don't even know what to say to that.

Justin Faulk is pretty much on the same level as Ryan McDonagh and Brooksie thinks Kreider could land him.

Edit - pretty much beaten to it. Point stands though.

And I don't like the fact that he hints that the D is going to stay the same. If that's the case they should really be conceding next year. They're not going to win with a defense of McDonagh, Staal, and Girardi as your "top three."

 

[Leetch3]

They can move their problems, it's a cop out to say "oh well the Rangers can't move their problem guys, so let's forget about it". It can be done. They just aren't giving any indication they are willing/want to address the issues.

Even if it was rumored they were shopping Staal/Girardi, I would be so sastified. At least that shows they are trying. Instead we get before the summer even starts that Girardi won't be bought out/asked to waive his NMC, and Staal won't be moved for god knows what reason.

It's frustrating.

its been said that they are shopping every one except hank, skjei and buchnevich. does it need to be repeated every article when there is zero interest in the players you want to see moved?

 

[East Coast Bias]

1) Nash for Shattenkirk

2) Klein for Pouliot

3) Sign Vesey


Kreider Stepan Vesey
Pouliot Brassard Zuccarello
Miller Hayes Buchnevich
Hrivik Lindberg Fast

McDonagh McIlrath
Staal Shattenkirk
Skjei Girardi

Lundqvist
Raanta

Would that really be so bad?


Final thought: I just love how lineups look without Dan Boyle in them.

Goodnight all!
See ya in the morning when we acquire Stamkos's rights for Ryan McDonagh.

Not trying to be a jerk but that's just painting the house a different color, when mold has destroyed the inside.

That team is no better than last years ending. It's a 6-10th in he East, 1st round KO

I just don't see a point to moving a ton of pieces for the same thing. That Shattenkirk walks next year bc we don't have cap space? It's just Shatty in for Yandle, addressing none of the D issues

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Lmao at Justin Faulk for Kreider. I don't even know what to say to that.

Justin Faulk is pretty much on the same level as Ryan McDonagh and Brooksie thinks Kreider could land him.

Edit - pretty much beaten to it. Point stands though.

And I don't like the fact that he hints that the D is going to stay the same. If that's the case they should really be conceding next year. They're not going to win with a defense of McDonagh, Staal, and Girardi as your "top three."

I'd argue our best three dmen next year will be mcdonagh, skjei, and mcilraith..

The first two is easy to see.. But I'm also a big mcilraith believer. I still think he's got top 4 potential..
He's already better than girardi(not hard) but he looked just as good or better than Klein at times last year. Another year older more ice time and he'll improve

 

[aufheben]

Not really liking Larry's ideas.

Well aside from Kreider for Faulk which would never happen.

Stepan and Klein for Coyle/Grablund and Brodin/Dumba? What is the incentive for that. Maybe I just am not high enough on Dumba.

Am I crazy for being skeptical of Stepan for RNH?

Mostly disappointing that it looks like a pure deck chair reshuffling. Barring a ridiculous steal of a deal like Kreider for Faulk.

I don't think anyone is, people talk about him like he's Bobby Orr.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

If the 3 D we have to protect are DG, Staal, and MCD and lose one of Kein or McIlrath, I'm gonna throw up. Might as well trade Klein now then unfortunately.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

They can move their problems, it's a cop out to say "oh well the Rangers can't move their problem guys, so let's forget about it". It can be done. They just aren't giving any indication they are willing/want to address the issues.

Even if it was rumored they were shopping Staal/Girardi, I would be so sastified. At least that shows they are trying. Instead we get before the summer even starts that Girardi won't be bought out/asked to waive his NMC, and Staal won't be moved for god knows what reason.

It's frustrating.

If they were/are trying to move Staal and Girardi, would it be smart to let their mouthpiece (Brooks) report "Rangers Desperately Looking To Cap-Dump Staal & Girardi?"

And honestly to move Girardi, you'd need to get him to waive and you'd have to trade something valuable with him just to get a 5th rounder, given his contract.

Datsyuk's contract (an empty 7.5M space) is more valuable than Girardi because it's only one year. That's still absurd though. 7.5M in DEAD CAP SPACE for a year is more appealing than having Dan Girardi play for your team for 5.5M for four more years.

Staal can certainly still be traded. I think Roussel & 2nd or 3rd (depending on the retention).

But even finding a miracle way to get rid of both Staal & Girardi, then what?

How do we get better? We go out and sign UFA's? UFAs always cost more than fair value because it's an open market with multiple suitors competing like an auction.

It makes more sense to hope Girardi bounces back and can play 3rd pair minutes adequately, and actually trade one or two of Stepan/Nash to bring back real assets: young, cost-controlled prospects, draft picks, young NHL-ready players on ELCs.

Otherwise we don't improve. We just clear cap-space to spend on more overpriced players.

 

[NikC]

AV should have been let go. They're going to move non-AV players and then he'll end up being canned by December. AV will be gone with CK and McI flourishing on their new teams. Perfect.

This. It's BS if they move Kreider and Mcilrath to appease that clown? Glass is staying? Gimme a break!

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Let's pull a Logan's Run and send everyone over 30 to carousel.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If they were/are trying to move Staal and Girardi, would it be smart to let their mouthpiece (Brooks) report "Rangers Desperately Looking To Cap-Dump Staal & Girardi?"

And honestly to move Girardi, you'd need to get him to waive and you'd have to trade something valuable with him just to get a 5th rounder, given his contract.

Datsyuk's contract (an empty 7.5M space) is more valuable than Girardi because it's only one year. That's still absurd though. 7.5M in DEAD CAP SPACE for a year is more appealing than having Dan Girardi play for your team for 5.5M for four more years.

Staal can certainly still be traded. I think Roussel & 2nd or 3rd (depending on the retention).

But even finding a miracle way to get rid of both Staal & Girardi, then what?

How do we get better? We go out and sign UFA's? UFAs always cost more than fair value because it's an open market with multiple suitors competing like an auction.

It makes more sense to hope Girardi bounces back and can play 3rd pair minutes adequately, and actually trade one or two of Stepan/Nash to bring back real assets: young, cost-controlled prospects, draft picks, young NHL-ready players on ELCs.

Otherwise we don't improve. We just clear cap-space to spend on more overpriced players.

Hate too break it to you, but the chances of Girardi rebounding are almost zero. The only reason he seemingly is being kept is because they may have a chance to lose him via expansion, but even that logic is iffy with his clauses. They should be buying him out. People can whine about dead cap space all you want, but Girardi isn't going to get better, and I'll take the dead cap hit if it means getting him off the team.

They can trade Stepan and Nash and Kreider and god knows who else to get assets and ELC players, but if Staal and G are still on the team, it will make no difference.

They should just come out and say they're rebuilding. This reset thing with trading good players and keeping garbage ones isn't going to work. At least if they say they're rebuilding, that's something I can get behind.

 

[aufheben]

Jeez this is past 1k already?

Continue here guys and gals: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2093577