Salary Cap: Offseason Hypothetical: Would you spend 20% of the Leafs cap on one player?

[Hurt]

Not going to lie if the Leafs picked up either Kane or Toews in free agency I'd probably be stoked. Even for that price

Going to vote yes

Well they both signed for 10.3 (or was it 10.5?) a year so they're off the table. Of the people who aren't signed to long term deals, I'd pay for Stamkos.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If Stamkos REALLY has his sights set of Toronto(he probably doesn't but it's nice to imagine it.....) then Tampa and Toronto should work out a trade soon, before he walks away from them as a free agent and they get nothing for him.

To Toronto: Steven Stamkos

To Tampa: Kessel, Kadri, 2015 1st, 2016 2nd



Boom.



JVR - Stamkos - Santorelli
Lupul - Bozak - Clarkson
Komarov - Kontiola - Frattin
Bodie - Holland - Ashton

This team probably misses the playoffs and giving up those picks in the bargain pretty much guarantees another decade of irrelevance for the Leafs.

Did'nt you earlier say something about the fan base and patience?

 

[Holymakinaw]

This team probably misses the playoffs and giving up those picks in the bargain pretty much guarantees another decade of irrelevance for the Leafs.

Did'nt you earlier say something about the fan base and patience?

Nah. You're just taking the opposite point of view. It sure is predictable.

And what.....are you following me around or something?



I think any team should do just about anything to get a young Steven Stamkos on it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nah. You're just taking the opposite point of view. It sure is predictable.

Of course it's predictable I don't agree with you. Your opinions are so ridiculous that it's rare for anyone on this boards to agree with you on anything.

Nah. You're just taking the opposite point of view. It sure is predictable.

And what.....are you following me around or something?



I think any team should do just about anything to get a young Steven Stamkos on it.

And that's your problem right there. Stamkos is very valuable but overpaying for him (or anyone for that matter) is not a good idea.

 

[Holymakinaw]

And that's your problem right there. Stamkos is very valuable but overpaying for him (or anyone for that matter) is not a good idea.

LMAO at you, if you think Kessel & Kadri(and picks) for 24 year old Steven Stankos would not be a fantastic idea.

 

[Gary Nylund]

LMAO at you, if you think Kessel & Kadri(and picks) for 24 year old Steven Stankos would not be a fantastic idea.

LMAO huh. Well that's a comprehensive, well thought argument.

 

[The Magic Man]

For Crosby, I'd do it in a heartbeat. It really has to be a top 2 or 3 player. I think Stamkos needs to learn some D to be there. But I'm not sure who I'd put ahead of him. Malkin on a good year, I suppose. But he is getting old to sign for 8 more years at max. (not that this isn't only hypothetical anyway)

Someone else brought up the point that if your gonna be paying 5-6M for 3rd liners, we'd be better off having spent 13M on one premier player and have a few smarter kids sprinkled through the lineup. This situation is forced on the Blackhawks and is why the have to give away some decent players. But it also allows them to stock up quality picks and keep the cycle of ELC and RFA players in the loop.

I think a few of our prospects would shine a little brighter if they were forced on our coaches. .......well maybe not with Randy.

But I will say, I don't have a lot of interest in trading for Stamkos. I think it will gut the team and we won't be any further ahead. Especially if we have to trade Kessel, Rielly or Bernier.

 

[Stephen]

Throw everything at Stamkos in 2016 if he's a free agent and see what he says. Hopefully the Leafs make some major inroads building their team up in the meantime and Tampa sputters.

 

[Mess]

Throw everything at Stamkos in 2016 if he's a free agent and see what he says. Hopefully the Leafs make some major inroads building their team up in the meantime and Tampa sputters.

TB is in a much better position to be successful so I don't know about sputtering.

 

[diceman934]

TB is in a much better position to be successful so I don't know about sputtering.

Goaltending is not a given, same boat as us!

 

[Stephen]

TB is in a much better position to be successful so I don't know about sputtering.

Yes and no. The Leafs are pretty deep in the wilderness, but so were the Lightning two years ago.

They rebounded last year with big years from Palat and Johnson, but those types of rookie success stories are often followed up with some sophomore struggles, and they don't have St. Louis anymore, who was a big part of the success story last year.

 

[Territory]

TB is in a much better position to be successful so I don't know about sputtering.

They certainly look strong on paper, but so did Ottawa last season. Everyone thought they would be a top team and look what needed up happening.

You never know what will happen.

 

[Gary Nylund]

They certainly look strong on paper, but so did Ottawa last season. Everyone thought they would be a top team and look what needed up happening.

You never know what will happen.

True enough. The only thing that seems to hold true year after year, is that the season ends with disappointment for Leaf fans. Who knows, maybe that'll change one day and if it does, I hope I'm alive to see it.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Playing the Stamkos Come Home Card - I think this is very very very interesting.

He's admitted - publicly - that he was hoping the Leafs would fall down far enough to draft him, because they were his favourite team. He was surprised that 'some teams didn't offer sheet him, he thought they would." (didn't mention Toronto by name, but given the fact that he's a centre, and all of Christendom knows that Toronto needs a better centre... and whose the only team in the League who could really through their weight around in an offer sheet? (other than NYR?)


He favourited the whole "Will Toronto have a Lebron Moment." (and laugh all you want - he doesn't perceive me to be stupid. He's FROM the area. He had to have known making a favourite hit on a comment like that from him would stir up a LOT of discussions). not to mention there's been a lot of moves that could make him pause - ie: Vinny being bought out (and the Captain), the St Louis drama (and he looked pissed. off. about that whole kit and kaboodle).

And to my way of thinking - it doesn't matter if Tampa is better set now because obvy - we're not ready to do anything. but if Shanahan and Company continue to make the moves that they're doing, and I expect some shrewd trades happening during the season... that's two years to develop a pretty darn good platform for some success.

both teams have good goalies who have potential to be elite but have questions about them (ie: can either one of them do well in the playoffs - I don't know, do you). Tampa gets the check marks in being good now, but we've got a good future coming up (as do they - so that's a wash).

to me - that's a lot to think about. I've never heard Stamkos utter one peep about being a Bolt for life - not like Tavares who said he wants to be a Franchise player with the Isles (who knows how long that will last). You know that Toronto's Lieweke is going to do everything in his legal power to make him come here. (though Tampa's Lieweke will probably do a lot to make him stay).

it's an interesting conundrum - that's for sure. (and i'd give him 20 percent).

he + kessel + jvr
leivo, kadri, nylander.

veeeerrrrrry scaaarrrrrry .

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yes and no. The Leafs are pretty deep in the wilderness, but so were the Lightning two years ago.

They rebounded last year with big years from Palat and Johnson, but those types of rookie success stories are often followed up with some sophomore struggles, and they don't have St. Louis anymore, who was a big part of the success story last year.

and Bishop playing out of his mind amazing.

 

[Mess]

They certainly look strong on paper, but so did Ottawa last season. Everyone thought they would be a top team and look what needed up happening.

You never know what will happen.

TB did this summer many of the things the Leafs needed to do.

Added Nabokov as the backup giving them a reliable 1-2 punch in net and injury insurance this year.

Added Antron Stralman and Jason Garrison to a defense that needed help.

Added veteran leadership and experience in Brian Boyle and Brenden Morrow up front.

About to add a ROY candidate in Jonathan Drouin who had 108 points in 46 games last year in CHL. Adding him to 2 of 3 ROY finalist from last year.

They added offense, defense, goaltending, leadership and experience and if that was an attempt to make a 101 point team stronger and to convince Stamkos they're serious about winning then they checked all the right boxes.

This team finished 3rd in the East with Stamkos himself playing only 37 games last year. Chances are TB themselves would consider matching any contract offer and likely be wiling to go up to 20% themselves.

 

[Stephen]

TB did this summer many of the things the Leafs needed to do.

Added Nabokov as the backup giving them a reliable 1-2 punch in net and injury insurance this year.

Added Antron Stralman and Jason Garrison to a defense that needed help.

Added veteran leadership and experience in Brian Boyle and Brenden Morrow up front.

About to add a ROY candidate in Jonathan Drouin who had 108 points in 46 games last year in CHL. Adding him to 2 of 3 ROY finalist from last year.

They added offense, defense, goaltending, leadership and experience and if that was an attempt to make a 101 point team stronger and to convince Stamkos they're serious about winning then they checked all the right boxes.

This team finished 3rd in the East with Stamkos himself playing only 37 games last year. Chances are TB themselves would consider matching any contract offer and likely be wiling to go up to 20% themselves.

Everything looks good on paper right now for Tampa in the immediate future.

That said, had we added Stralman and Garrison at their price points, I don't think we'd necessarily be jumping for joy in Toronto. Boyle is a decent addition, but Morrow feels like a pretty irrelevant addition.

Nabokov is irrelevant.

They're basically downgrading from St. Louis to Callahan over the course of a season.

Drouin could be great for them.

I have no idea what Palat and Johnson will follow up with: superstardom or sophomore struggles.

Ben Bishop: big wild card in terms of quality of play, durability.

 

[Daisy Jane]

TB did this summer many of the things the Leafs needed to do.

Added Nabokov as the backup giving them a reliable 1-2 punch in net and injury insurance this year.

Added Antron Stralman and Jason Garrison to a defense that needed help.

Added veteran leadership and experience in Brian Boyle and Brenden Morrow up front.

About to add a ROY candidate in Jonathan Drouin who had 108 points in 46 games last year in CHL. Adding him to 2 of 3 ROY finalist from last year.

They added offense, defense, goaltending, leadership and experience and if that was an attempt to make a 101 point team stronger and to convince Stamkos they're serious about winning then they checked all the right boxes.

This team finished 3rd in the East with Stamkos himself playing only 37 games last year. Chances are TB themselves would consider matching any contract offer and likely be wiling to go up to 20% themselves.

but all of that is moot - if Stamkos wants to play for his childhood team, no? taking it to a basketball angle - Cleveland sucked so much, they've won the lottery what 4 times out of six or something like that, and Lebron James - who is fighting to become cemented as the Next Best Thing Since Jordan, decided not to stay in Miami and try to at least get to a final - but to go to Cleveland and play for his home town team.

So it wouldn't be far fetched to go "well you know, Tampa looks good - but Toronto just needs a little sparkle shine in the centre department, woila, here I am." it doens't matter if Tampa can match it - the only way tampa has a contractual edge is that extra year. And that's moot if Stamkos wants to play in Toronto.

 

[Gary Nylund]

20% is just too much, Crosby is the only player where I would even think about it and even that would have to be a short-term thing considering he's not that young any more.

Look at what Toews just signed for, and then calculate what 20% of the caps is and it becomes clear you're over-paying and that is not the path to success.

 

[Mess]

Everything looks good on paper right now for Tampa in the immediate future.

That said, had we added Stralman and Garrison at their price points, I don't think we'd necessarily be jumping for joy in Toronto. Boyle is a decent addition, but Morrow feels like a pretty irrelevant addition.

Nabokov is irrelevant.

They're basically downgrading from St. Louis to Callahan over the course of a season.

Drouin could be great for them.

I have no idea what Palat and Johnson will follow up with: superstardom or sophomore struggles.

Ben Bishop: big wild card in terms of quality of play, durability.

Biggest X factor is Stamkos himself as he played only 37 games.

 

[Mess]

but all of that is moot - if Stamkos wants to play for his childhood team, no? taking it to a basketball angle - Cleveland sucked so much, they've won the lottery what 4 times out of six or something like that, and Lebron James - who is fighting to become cemented as the Next Best Thing Since Jordan, decided not to stay in Miami and try to at least get to a final - but to go to Cleveland and play for his home town team.

So it wouldn't be far fetched to go "well you know, Tampa looks good - but Toronto just needs a little sparkle shine in the centre department, woila, here I am." it doens't matter if Tampa can match it - the only way tampa has a contractual edge is that extra year. And that's moot if Stamkos wants to play in Toronto.

Well Leaf Nation should hold their collective breaths, hoping a star payer like Stamkos does want to come home. If you're going to dream then dream big.

However that is still 3 seasons way.

What might be moot is when has Toronto ever been in a position cap wise to spend the cap max 20% on a player? Toronto is buying out Gleason simply to free enough cap space to fill out their team this year. Kessel, Phaneuf, Clarkon, Bozak, JVR, Lupul etc etc are all still under contract when Stamkos would be potentially a UFA.

You are talking $15-16 mil per at 20% cap ceiling in 2016-17.

 

[Stephen]

In terms of Stamkos and the Leafs, there's a couple of things that indicate he may be more amenable to coming home than Tavares.

STAMKOS ANGLE:

Tavares has openly stated that he wants to do the whole Joe Sakic/Steve Yzerman thing on Long Island. Stamkos has never given us any indication that this is what he intends to do.

Stamkos stated that he wanted the Leafs to tank and draft him back in 2008 leading up to the draft.

Stamkos trains with Gary Roberts, who is a Leaf alumni and famously one of the last GTA area guys to come home and make a major impact. He also helped bring Joe Nieuwendyk home for a year. If anyone is a good example of a successful hometown return, it's him.

In 2011, Stamkos said he was surprised he didn't receive offer sheet attention on the market, which I'd identify as his rich hometown team with a big hole at center.

Stamkos eventually signed for a 5 year contract, which takes him to unrestricted free agency and not a year over. This looks a little short in comparison to the 6-8 year deals Tavares, Seguin, Doughty, Hall, RNH, Karlsson, and other high first round picks. Also, you have to consider this was before the second lockout, so he could have easily signed some ridiculous 11 year deal if he wanted.

I think he stated somewhere that if the Lightning couldn't win a cup he'd be cheering for the Leafs or some obvious statement last year. It was a Cabbie interview, but saying something like that is still kind of unusual.

He liked the Lebron/Leafs/Stamkos article, which seems innocent enough, until you think about how savvy pro athletes are today. Even if he isn't necessarily packing his bags to come home and selling the condo right away, this sends a message to Tampa that maybe all is not well in their arrangement.

TAMPA BAY ANGLE

Tampa is building a really nice program with Yzerman at the helm, but let's face it, their track record with keeping their star players is quite poor. Brad Richards, Dan Boyle, Nikolai Khabibulin were all dumped from their cup winning team under difficult economic times. Richards and Boyle have been rumored to go back to Tampa over the years but it's never happened. Richards picked NYR the first go round, and signed a discount deal to go to Chicago, two Original Six markets, rather than return to Tampa. Boyle chose New York this past summer.

Lecavalier and St. Louis were thought to be lifers until they weren't... In a matter of one calendar year, the Lightning have moved on from two of their captains.

TORONTO ANGLE

We still have a big hole at center, we still have a ton of money in the vault, and we now have Tim Leiweke who made a big financial splash to fix TFC, and Brendan Shanahan, who is building a new program. We also have a centennial coming up in 2016-17 and a fiftieth cup anniversary drought looming that year.

This past winter, it was reported that Lieweke could be looking at Stamkos as a signature addition to his regime.

It's interesting that the Leafs have avoided big ticket free agents this year. Maybe they're saving some cap space and trying to remain flexible for a big fish? What better way than to go about things than to quietly continue to build a good team and supercharge it with a Stamkos addition two summers from now? It's all fun conspiracy theory stuff for now, but hopefully we have a nice surprise in store for us...

 

[Daisy Jane]

I think he stated somewhere that if the Lightning couldn't win a cup he'd be cheering for the Leafs or some obvious statement last year. It was a Cabbie interview, but saying something like that is still kind of unusual.

you just said everything i said. but in all honesty, i don't think this is a "ah Leafs fans dreaming again." scenario for the reasons i've (and you've) pointed out.

the bolded are things i remember as well. And while it's funny and cute while players like Peter Holland are opening tweeting about cheering for their hometown favourite team in the playoffs - players like Stamkos don't. (usually). ...it's like... akin to Jonathan Toews saying "I totally cheer for Winnipeg." or Crosby going "I am team bleu, blanc et rouge, when we're out." they say NOTHING.

and Mess - I don't think they bought out Gleason for cap space reasons - i think he was bought out because Shanahan didn't want him/didn't fit.

annnd. we have something Stamkos no longer has in Florida. We have one, Phil Kessel. His Phil Kessel is playing in New York.

 

[Stephen]

Stamkos, Kessel, Nylander, van Riemsdyk, Kadri?

 

[Holymakinaw]

annnd. we have something Stamkos no longer has in Florida. We have one, Phil Kessel. His Phil Kessel is playing in New York.

Well, that would be the best case scenario for us....for him to walk out of Tampa as a free agent and right into our lineup, to play with Kessel, Kadri, Nylander, Rielly, Gardiner......It would be amazing for us.

But why would Tampa just let him walk away, without getting a ton in return. They'd trade him first, no?