hangman005
Mark Stones Spleen
I'd like to see him under a better coach before I decided anything. I think he can rebound, and I still like his defensive game.
Speculation: Official Offseason Thread
- Thread starter VEGASKING
- Start date
Vegas07
Registered User
- Dec 6, 2018
- 2,753
- 1,913
At this point I’d be happy if he could score goals at the rate he did in year 2.
But it’s not so much that anyone is happy to dump him. It’s more like we prefer to keep him but with the salary cap issues someone has to go and the team looks much stronger at center now.
The situation with Smith was different because the cap situation wasn’t the same last year. It was a problem, but now it’s much worse.
The Duck Knight
Henry, you're our only hope!
Center depth is far more important than wing depth. You can move a center to the wing if necessary, not vice versa. Centers also cost more to acquire when you need one.
Dadonov is very obviously the first guy out the door as far as the forwards go. As fun as it was to watch after the failed trade we can't get caught up in a 20 game hot streak.
Lehner and Pacioretty should be the next in line as cap casualties for the simple fact that we need guys that can stay healthy. It doesn't matter what you do on the ice if you're always hurt or playing hurt. Seems like we'll have enough injury concerns going forward between Martinez and Stone.
From an outsiders view looking in I wonder if the Knights are going to continue their strategy of "win now at all costs". They just acquired Eichel so it seems to me they are still going to move in that direction in the foreseeable future; deal high draft picks and get players in their prime to try and contend every year.
The question that everyone is asking today is "Is this the right strategy?" I wonder if the Knights current management is the right group to consider an alternative, perhaps as early as next off season if they falter and miss the playoffs again.
Vegas might need to build a team through the draft. I won't use the term rebuild because Vegas has never had to do that in the classic NHL sense. They might never hit the heights of the cup finals again if they continue on this course.
They don't have to take ten years like the Oilers did. Competent organizations can do it in 3-4.
The question that everyone is asking today is "Is this the right strategy?" I wonder if the Knights current management is the right group to consider an alternative, perhaps as early as next off season if they falter and miss the playoffs again.
Vegas might need to build a team through the draft. I won't use the term rebuild because Vegas has never had to do that in the classic NHL sense. They might never hit the heights of the cup finals again if they continue on this course.
They don't have to take ten years like the Oilers did. Competent organizations can do it in 3-4.
The Duck Knight
Henry, you're our only hope!
There's no use in speculating. They're a win now team because Foley wants to win before he dies. They'll build through the draft when this group's window is closed. Now that doesn't mean they're going to make big moves this offseason. Because of the cap they can't, but they're not going to just start tearing things down for futures either. They don't need to deal their high picks and prospects now. They have their core (Stone/Petro/Theo/Eichel/Marchie/Karlsson/Stephenson) locked in for a minimum of 2 years. The holes on the roster now are really only the bottom 6 forwards.
Like I said, they are in win now mode for the foreseeable future. I think speculating is what we all do on these boards, including you.
I don't think the only holes in their roster are in the bottom six. I think the make up of the team isn't quite right and they'll have to move some guys out. Probably for players who don't get hurt as much. This includes goaltending.
That of course is just speculation.
The Duck Knight
Henry, you're our only hope!
You questioned if they would continue on the same course as opposed to building through the draft. I explained why there is no chance they're going to build through the draft anytime soon. That's what I said there's no use in speculating about. The plan is all in for at least the next 2 years, probably a bit longer even.
Selling low on high cap players only to turn around and buy high on replacements doesn't seem like a realistic possibility. They're going to just need to get under the cap and rely on bounceback years from Karlsson and Stone.
Marchessault-Eichel-Roy (3m per)
Pacioretty-Stephenson-Stone
Smith (4.5m per)-Karlsson-Amadio
Carrier-Howden (900k)-Kolesar (900k)
Martinez-Petro
Mcnabb-Theo
Hague (1.25m per)- Whitecloud
Hutton
That is pretty easily a playoff team in the Pacific assuming good health. The most obvious hole being at 3RW.
I did not even comment on his ppg production, as the value of Karlsson is as an all-around player/defensive forward/pk'er. I said the eye test indicates he's not the same player he was. All things considered I'd like to see if he reverts to form under a different coach, as the PDB style isn't conducive to his game before I would move him, but I wouldn't consider him an untouchable if the right deal came along, and if I had to chose between him and Smith for cap reasons, I'd go with Reilly (assuming his money demands are reasonable).
VEGASKING
Registered User
Stone and Pacioretty have only shown chemistry with Stephenson. Eichel hasn't really shown any chemistry with anybody but he is going to be playing over 20 minutes a night which essentially makes Karlsson your third line center. Obviously that is great depth, if you can afford it. At this point in time they cannot. If you find a taker for Dadonov and Pacioretty then his salary isn't such a burden. If you can't get rid of those guys without too much sweetener then WK is a guy you can sacrifice with Nic Roy waiting in the wings to replace him at 1/3 the cost. Eichel, Stephenson, Roy, Howden down the middle is still pretty good.
Whoever is behind the bench next year needs to find a way for Patches/Eichel/Stone or a Marchy/Eichel/Smith line to work. A player of Eichel's supposed caliber should be good enough to play with Dadonov/Roy/Janmark or any other third liners but it is a waste of their talent to not be playing with other top 6 skilled players.
Whoever is behind the bench next year needs to find a way for Patches/Eichel/Stone or a Marchy/Eichel/Smith line to work. A player of Eichel's supposed caliber should be good enough to play with Dadonov/Roy/Janmark or any other third liners but it is a waste of their talent to not be playing with other top 6 skilled players.
MayorofWBS
Registered User
Those are some optimistic hometown discounts for multiple players. What do you want for Kolesar?
GoldenKnight
Registered User
In the end, I think the big picture is a case of "too soon, junior" for this team. Instead of building through the draft they got caught up in the hype and sent solid young players like Suzuki out for vets, which quickly became useless. I feel next year with healthy Jack they should go for it one more time, but start selling at the deadline if another playoff miss appears in store in early Feb. There are some pieces that could fetch a killing in trade and the 2023 draft will be a very good one.
The Duck Knight
Henry, you're our only hope!
The only discount there is for Smith. I think that's realistic because it's rumored they already have a deal agreed upon and have since before the deadline. Just don't have the tagging space to make it official. 4.5m in a no tax state is just as good as 5m in a high tax state. The rest are RFA's with very little leverage to demand more. Kolesar is a guy who if he won't take under a million I have no issue giving away for a late round pick. Same with Howden.
Kolesar walking wouldn't bother too many. Pretty much a veteran body at this point, every team has that so can't see how you get anything for him in a trade. Howden has value at the right contract. Thought he showed potential to even be a third line winger with more grit than most of the roster, could end up being a nice little piece they got in the trade.
If the only offseason signing of significance is Smith then its a good thing. I sure hope they finally accept they are truly cap strapped and stop chasing high priced shiny toys. Make a move or two to get space and then hold it for inevitable deals in a barely rising cap. If guys get healthy in the longer offseason this team surely can be back in the playoffs next year. If they don't, well not much can be done anyways. Guys like Stone and Patches need to show up healthy and with a plan to keep them that way.
RapidKnight
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2021
- 994
- 563
I think it would be a mistake to trade Dadonov (again). His playing style complements Eichel well and Eichel tends to have better chemistry with lefties. Pacioretty doesn’t complement Eichel because they are both quantity shooters who prefer to attack from the same side.
One of the major flaws of our roster is our lack of two dimensional players, it makes us rather predictable and easy to shut down in critical moments. No player is more predictable than Pacioretty. All things considered I would much rather see Pacioretty go.
One of the major flaws of our roster is our lack of two dimensional players, it makes us rather predictable and easy to shut down in critical moments. No player is more predictable than Pacioretty. All things considered I would much rather see Pacioretty go.
LadyStanley
Registered User
As of today, the team has 18 (NHL) bodies signed for next season and are already over the cap by more than $1m.
They need to add about five more bodies, so need to clear out at least six million in cap space.
That means for every pending RFA or UFA (re-)signed, that amount or more has to be subtracted from the cap by moving/buying out other guys.
They need to add about five more bodies, so need to clear out at least six million in cap space.
That means for every pending RFA or UFA (re-)signed, that amount or more has to be subtracted from the cap by moving/buying out other guys.
LadyStanley
Registered User
Leaving Las Vegas & Craig Conroy Leaving Las Vegas & Craig Conroy 32 Thoughts: The podcast
32 Thoughts podcast recorded Thursday night. Beginning 15+ minutes speculating on Vegas' off season.
32 Thoughts podcast recorded Thursday night. Beginning 15+ minutes speculating on Vegas' off season.
I'd start by getting rid of Pacioretty, Lehner and Janmark for whatever we can get for them in draft choices. That's about 15 million right there. I also think Stephenson can easily fill the Karlsson role, another 5.5 or so. Gets us out of cap hell.
It's actually $566,000 over with 20 bodies since the salary figure includes the 2 signed players on LTIR in Brossoit and Patrick.
LadyStanley
Registered User
LadyStanley
Registered User
May have to eat up to 50% of salary on Patches and perhaps some of Panda (especially as the actually $$s increase the next two seasons). That will eat up some of the "savings" projected.
VEGASKING
Registered User
Concerning neither coaching and/or management changes have been made yet?
Looking at that capfriendly link we are set on defense and in net we are only short of forwards. Let Janmark walk and trade Dadonov and replace that 5m with Reilly Smith. Luckily the RFA's should all come pretty cheap. Howden was having a good year but he only played 47 games. 1.5m for him at most? Roy averaged .50ppg. 1.5-2 for him? Hague to fight with Hutton for #6 D. 1.25-1.5? Kolesar is fine on the 4th line. 1.2 for him? Just depends on how much of a raise all these guys making 700-900k are looking for. Trade Brossoit for a bag of pucks and Lehner if you can get a decent option to replace him with to save another million or two. One of Pacioretty or Karlsson gone covers all the RFA signings and we're back to a full roster under the cap.
Patrick has one more year at 1.2 left. Recoup any draft picks you can get for him or does he get another shot? Unfortunately for him it looks like he is done health wise and has no place on the team anyways. No room in the top 6 and not a good fit in the bottom 6. Cody Glass had 1 point in 8 games with Nashville. Not looking god for him either. Despite how injury plagued Patrick has been in his career he still has 3 times as many games played and points as Glass does to this point.
Looking at that capfriendly link we are set on defense and in net we are only short of forwards. Let Janmark walk and trade Dadonov and replace that 5m with Reilly Smith. Luckily the RFA's should all come pretty cheap. Howden was having a good year but he only played 47 games. 1.5m for him at most? Roy averaged .50ppg. 1.5-2 for him? Hague to fight with Hutton for #6 D. 1.25-1.5? Kolesar is fine on the 4th line. 1.2 for him? Just depends on how much of a raise all these guys making 700-900k are looking for. Trade Brossoit for a bag of pucks and Lehner if you can get a decent option to replace him with to save another million or two. One of Pacioretty or Karlsson gone covers all the RFA signings and we're back to a full roster under the cap.
Patrick has one more year at 1.2 left. Recoup any draft picks you can get for him or does he get another shot? Unfortunately for him it looks like he is done health wise and has no place on the team anyways. No room in the top 6 and not a good fit in the bottom 6. Cody Glass had 1 point in 8 games with Nashville. Not looking god for him either. Despite how injury plagued Patrick has been in his career he still has 3 times as many games played and points as Glass does to this point.
I've already heard a few people report that Lehner is still viewed as one of the best goalies in the league when healthy by GMs. I don't think we should have to retain when he's viewed as being on a good contract around the league, even in real dollars of 6 million for a few years.
Pacioretty wouldn't be retained by us unless a 1st is coming back. I saw a post that mentioned Pacioretty to Anaheim for Comtois or Jones, two disappointing power forwards that could at least give us some size and that seems like a good deal for both.
Anaheim can retain and get the 1st for Pacioretty that helps their rebuild, we get the cap space and a big body at least.
I don't think we'll get anything big for them but I really don't think there will need to be much retaining from Vegas.
Janmark is a UFA and not counting toward that total already.
But this seems like knee jerk overreaction.
This is the first year of their careers that Stephenson has outperformed Karlsson. He's also only a year younger and he's only signed two more years and Karlsson is signed for five.
Stephenson will need a new deal at 30 and he's already got a Cup and will be looking to cash in for as much as he can for as long as he can considering how relatively little he will have made compared to other players at that point. And his game is reliant on his speed which will likely catch up to him in year one of that new deal.
Not to mention dumping Karlsson after all he's done and meant to the team because of one tough season for the whole team where you want maybe 8-10 more points from him in the 67 games he played isn't a great look or locker room chemistry move at all.
LadyStanley
Registered User
And the other teams know they'll be taking part of VGK's cap pain away so won't be as generous with the return.
I agree, but that's what Pacioretty for Max Jones and Lehner for nothing would be.
Pacioretty has been nearly PPG his last three seasons with us, almost even on goals and assists.
(158 GP, 154pts. 75g, 79a)
Getting that for 3.5 is probably even worth a 1st plus and all Anaheim has to give up is the equivalent of like Jack Dugan to get access to it? That is us eating some value, in my opinion.
Lehner would return something to us if we weren't in cap trouble. The Leafs, Devils, Wings, Oilers probably more after the playoffs shake out would all have some interest in a starting goaltender. Giving him away for free is us eating some value because of our situation.
