HF Habs: Official Montreal Canadiens Off-Season Thread

[Spring in Fialta]

Who are you... HF Habs Police? He is NHL ready. What you waiting for? He's age 24/25 next year and has shown potential in his small sample size. McNiven is not NHL ready.

Your opinion don't trump my and vice vera. It's a conversation, discussion, debate. But here you come again thinking that your opinion is fact. When are you going to learn?

Everybody's opinion trumps yours on this board. Lindgren hasn't shown anything that a million goalie prospects - like our very own Mathieu Garon at a time when goalies went for a better price - haven't shown before and his NHL value is insignificant.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Everybody's opinion trumps yours on this board. Lindgren hasn't shown anything that a million goalie prospects - like our very own Mathieu Garon at a time when goalies went for a better price - haven't shown before and his NHL value is insignificant.

So tell me... what do you think my opinion is? And yes, there are many goalies like Garon, Condon, etc. Probability that Lindgren will turn into one of them vs a Anderson or Schneider is high. It's the nature of the game. Most fail vs becoming NHL regulars.

Do you not agree there is things to like about Lindgren in his small sample size? Are we not allowed to talk about these things? I am fully aware that the pessimistic approach wins more often than not right? Just like saying we will not win the draft lottery and we will not be able to sign Tavares.

How did it start? Adding a promising goalie like Lindgren in a package with Path sweetens the deal. Then it blows up that Lindgren is not worth anything. Sorry if I hurt your feelings but I disagree and no opinion trumps any other... even after you factor in popularity

 

[Laurentide]

Rask is not a good fit for our team. I shadow the Canes board and they're quite disappointed with his play in general this year.

Then he'll fit right in with the rest of our underachievers.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I would try Rask before Skinner and it would be more realistic

I'm not touching Rask unless Shaw or Alzner go the other way.

 

[Scriptor]

gone. Don't see him back next year.

I think I wrote it earlier, but I could be wrong. According to the Fucales' neighbour, the kid is going back to school to study engineering before he gets to old to want to go back. I believe that will be the reason for the hire.

 

[Laurentide]

Look, goalies in general, no matter what their name might be, aren't worth much anymore. The way the game is played today makes goalie-centric team-building obsolete. Every year there's an average goalie who got hot at the right time hoisting the Cup. You don't need Hall of Fame caliber goaltending to win anymore. If Patrick Roy and Marty Brodeur were both in their prime today they would be nothing but salary cap anchors for their teams. They would be the reason why their teams couldn't afford to load up on the players you need to win Cups.

The Habs could put Price on the trading block today and offer to absorb 100% of his salary and they still wouldn't get great offers for him. Even a decade ago you could have got a king's ransom for a top flight goalie. Today? Not so much.

As an example, I recently tried to shift some antique furniture, a mid-1930's art-deco style bedroom suite. The dealers I spoke with all agreed it was good quality, well made furniture but they also told me that it's essentially worthless because it's not a style that is popular right now. Quality doesn't matter if there's no one willing to buy it. Right now, the hot seller in the antique market is Scandinavian style, mid century stuff from the 50's. That's what sells. Is it as well made as my 1930's pieces? Probably not but that doesn't matter. What matters is what people are willing to spend money on.

Goalies right now are no different. Nobody builds a winning team around their goalie anymore. You want a good one, not an overpriced great one who will eat up too much of your cap. They don't need to singlehandedly win games for you like Roy and Brodeur used to do. They only need to not lose games for you.

So no, sorry, but Charlie Lindgren is a useless asset as far as trades go. He has zero value around the league and is only worth something (just barely) to the team which currently employs him. It's not that other teams wouldn't take him as a throw-in, just that they aren't going to pay any sort of premium for him. Adding him to a trade proposal does nothing to bump up the value of that proposal. He's a non-factor. When you trade a goalie today his last name may as well be "Future Considerations" because that's about all he's worth.

If Pacioretty alone won't get you the 10th pick from the Oilers or Borgstrom from the Panthers, Pacioretty and Lindgren won't get it for you either.

 

[montreal]

I don't think Lindgren has much value, but I do think he's NHL ready, just would be better for him to start out in the AHL and then at some point get NHL games.

 

[Kriss E]

Who are you... HF Habs Police? He is NHL ready. What you waiting for? He's age 24/25 next year and has shown potential in his small sample size. McNiven is not NHL ready.

Your opinion don't trump my and vice vera. It's a conversation, discussion, debate. But here you come again thinking that your opinion is fact. When are you going to learn?

You are never interested in discussing anything. You always ignore all the points brought up to you and simply repeat your own. Every single time.
Just look now, you did it again, completely ignoring the fact that if Lindgren was indeed ''ready'', we would not have signed Niemi.
Could he be ready? That is possible, but it is far from being a certainty. Yet you keep repeating that he is, as if it's a known fact. It isn't.
And when this is brought up to you, well it's ignored.
Fact that every other team pretty much has a young prospect goalie in their ranks - ignored.
Fact that outside 2 shutouts, he hasn't looked particularly good and his AHL stats are anything but impressive - ignored again.

All you do is repeat how he had 2 shutouts, as if that is some amazing feat.

You want to have a discussion, start by acknowledging the points brought up that counter your opinion/idea.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You are never interested in discussing anything. You always ignore all the points brought up to you and simply repeat your own. Every single time.
Just look now, you did it again, completely ignoring the fact that if Lindgren was indeed ''ready'', we would not have signed Niemi.
Could he be ready? That is possible, but it is far from being a certainty. Yet you keep repeating that he is, as if it's a known fact. It isn't.
And when this is brought up to you, well it's ignored.
Fact that every other team pretty much has a young prospect goalie in their ranks - ignored.
Fact that outside 2 shutouts, he hasn't looked particularly good and his AHL stats are anything but impressive - ignored again.

All you do is repeat how he had 2 shutouts, as if that is some amazing feat.

You want to have a discussion, start by acknowledging the points brought up that counter your opinion/idea.

The only one being disingenuous here is you. I counter your aggressive approach with more of the same and you act like I’m the one being unreasonable. Just look how you replied to my post lately... proof is there.

I have perfectly good conversations with many on these boards. I can with you as well but you seriously needs to drop the grudge

As far as Lindgren.. I have spoke my peace and backed up my opinion. Once again you don’t like it and go on attack.

 

[Kriss E]

So tell me... what do you think my opinion is? And yes, there are many goalies like Garon, Condon, etc. Probability that Lindgren will turn into one of them vs a Anderson or Schneider is high. It's the nature of the game. Most fail vs becoming NHL regulars.

Do you not agree there is things to like about Lindgren in his small sample size? Are we not allowed to talk about these things? I am fully aware that the pessimistic approach wins more often than not right? Just like saying we will not win the draft lottery and we will not be able to sign Tavares.

How did it start? Adding a promising goalie like Lindgren in a package with Path sweetens the deal. Then it blows up that Lindgren is not worth anything. Sorry if I hurt your feelings but I disagree and no opinion trumps any other... even after you factor in popularity

Nobody is pessimistic with Lindgren. I think he can become a good goalie but he hasn't shown some special skills that make him a hot commodity.
We are talking about his trade value and how you keep repeating adding him to Patches sweetens the deal. It doesn't. He has no value at this point. He hasn't proven anything at the NHL level and even in the AHL.

The kid has no value at this point in time.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nobody is pessimistic with Lindgren. I think he can become a good goalie but he hasn't shown some special skills that make him a hot commodity.
We are talking about his trade value and how you keep repeating adding him to Patches sweetens the deal. It doesn't. He has no value at this point. He hasn't proven anything at the NHL level and even in the AHL.

The kid has no value at this point in time.

I disagree and my original point was combining him with Patch to sweeten the deal (2nd time I remind you this). And I commented about how hard it is to evaluate him alone. At this point with his small sample size in the NHL and the promise he showed, I think he is NHL ready for a backup role and it’s anybody’s guess what direction he goes.

Saying Lindgren has no value is a pessimistic evaluation IMO. He is an intriguing young goalie on a very good 3 year contract. He has value and I’ll let you decide what you think I think it is

 

[Kriss E]

The only one being disingenuous here is you. I counter your aggressive approach with more of the same and you act like I’m the one being unreasonable. Just look how you replied to my post lately... proof is there.

I have perfectly good conversations with many on these boards. I can with you as well but you seriously needs to drop the grudge

As far as Lindgren.. I have spoke my peace and backed up my opinion. Once again you don’t like it and go on attack.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[sheed36]

I can't see Tavares signing with the Habs if he does make it to UFA July 1st but how much money do you guys think MB will throw JT's way if he gets a chance to do so? McDavid money X 7 years? More?

 

[Kriss E]

I disagree and my original point was combining him with Patch to sweeten the deal (2nd time I remind you this). And I commented about how hard it is to evaluate him alone. At this point with his small sample size in the NHL and the promise he showed, I think he is NHL ready for a backup role and it’s anybody’s guess what direction he goes.

Saying Lindgren has no value is a pessimistic evaluation IMO. He is an intriguing young goalie on a very good 3 year contract. He has value and I’ll let you decide what you think I think it is

Max Pacioretty has value. Brendan Gallagher has value. A 3rd overall has value. Zadina has value.
Charlie Lindgren has pretty much no value. He has close to no NHL experience, his stats in both the AHL and NHL are not very interesting.
What he has is 3 NHL games a few years ago where he did well. He has 2 shutouts last year. Beyond that, we rely on his junior days. Now considering the terrible make up of our teams here and in the AHL, he still showed some interesting things but nothing outwordly. That's about it.
If Lindgren was NHL ready, we would not have re-signed Niemi. He is still a question mark at this point.

If you take things too literal, then yes he has value. The value of a young goalie prospect that has not proven anything yet with rather mediocre stats in AHL-NHL thus far, in a time where goalies have a rather lower market value.

 

[Steve Shutt]

Condon got traded two years ago for a 5th (Pitt --> Ott)
He was 26 at the time, good AHL track record, and had just played 55 nhl games

Experienced back-up Montoya got us a 4th

Lindgren's age, contract and NHL numbers (17 games) look decent but I don't think he can fetch more than Condon or Montoya. My guess is a 5th at best. I prefer to keep him, have him play a tonne in Laval (waiver exempt). If opportunity knocks (other team injury) we can unload Lindgren or Niemi and hopefully score a young prospect or better draft pick.

 

[Chili]

A key consideration with Lindgren is his waiver status (which I believe is still exempt).

As Lou Lamoriello says, `when there is time, you use it`.

 

[mariolemieux66]

A key consideration with Lindgren is his waiver status (which I believe is still exempt).

As Lou Lamoriello says, `when there is time, you use it`.

43 or games or one more season before being waiver eligible.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I disagree and my original point was combining him with Patch to sweeten the deal (2nd time I remind you this). And I commented about how hard it is to evaluate him alone. At this point with his small sample size in the NHL and the promise he showed, I think he is NHL ready for a backup role and it’s anybody’s guess what direction he goes.

Saying Lindgren has no value is a pessimistic evaluation IMO. He is an intriguing young goalie on a very good 3 year contract. He has value and I’ll let you decide what you think I think it is

Giving Tavares $12,5m is crazy. Personally, I think he's more $9m territory, but someone will give $10,5m.

 

[HabsQC]

Giving Tavares $12,5m is crazy. Personally, I think he's more $9m territory, but someone will give $10,5m.

If you want him in Montreal, it's going to be at least 11 IMO

 

[Runner77]

I can't see Tavares signing with the Habs if he does make it to UFA July 1st but how much money do you guys think MB will throw JT's way if he gets a chance to do so? McDavid money X 7 years? More?

He'll throw enough money at JT to help him get leverage with other teams. Like you said, he won't sign here but his agent is sure to use a convenient sucker where he can find one.

 

[Beer and Chips]

He'll throw enough money at JT to help him get leverage with other teams. Like you said, he won't sign here but his agent is sure to use a convenient sucker where he can find one.

What I find odd is that tactic keeps working when everyone knows no one really wants to sign with Montreal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Giving Tavares $12,5m is crazy. Personally, I think he's more $9m territory, but someone will give $10,5m.

Not sure what this has to do with a Patch/Lindgren trade package value but if we want to talk about Tavares... It's not about what he is worth, it's about what you have to pay to get him to sign as a UFA. For example, $13M in Montreal is equal to about $10M in Nashville when you look at take home pay. That could be a factor between two cities that Tavares is considering. The other factor is Tavares wants to win so he might not go for the max deal and sign a deal that allows the team to fit him in their cap... so your $9M might end up being the number in the end.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If you want him in Montreal, it's going to be at least 11 IMO

I think it might be higher than that. Bergevin is likely going to throw a max deal at him. Won't be surprised he offers him $15M and Tavares signs for $12M somewhere else. All teams have an extra $5M (+/-) of cap space but we will find out the real salary cap after final revenue is calculated and they figure out the escrow with the players. With extra revenue from Vegas and another expansion team to be announced, the cap is going to go up more than the previous $2M annual average over the last 3 or 4 years. Inflation needs to be factored in with all new contracts. Look at what E Kane just got

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think Lindgren has much value, but I do think he's NHL ready, just would be better for him to start out in the AHL and then at some point get NHL games.

My original comment was adding Lindgren to Patch in a trade package. A team like Florida could use him. Look at their goalie depth charts. Could help us sweeten the deal and we are able to get the futures return we are looking for. I also think he is NHL ready but we signed Niemi. I suspect we are trying to make our Laval team more competitive and Lindgren as the starter with a better team and coach helps. However, I also like running with McNiven and Marcoux if we are able to trade Lindgren with Patch. Options are a good thing.

You worded it right... He don't have much value. Saying he has no value is BS