HF Habs: Official Montreal Canadiens Off-Season Thread

[Habs Halifax]

Max Pacioretty has value. Brendan Gallagher has value. A 3rd overall has value. Zadina has value.
Charlie Lindgren has pretty much no value. He has close to no NHL experience, his stats in both the AHL and NHL are not very interesting.
What he has is 3 NHL games a few years ago where he did well. He has 2 shutouts last year. Beyond that, we rely on his junior days. Now considering the terrible make up of our teams here and in the AHL, he still showed some interesting things but nothing outwordly. That's about it.
If Lindgren was NHL ready, we would not have re-signed Niemi. He is still a question mark at this point.

If you take things too literal, then yes he has value. The value of a young goalie prospect that has not proven anything yet with rather mediocre stats in AHL-NHL thus far, in a time where goalies have a rather lower market value.

Patch < Patch & Lindgren in a trade package. Now you say he has pretty much no value. He has value IMO. It's just not much by himself and we would never trade him by himself just to unload him like we did with Montoya

 

[Kriss E]

Patch < Patch & Lindgren in a trade package

Patch < Patch + Fucale.

Yes, Lindgren is worth more than literally nothing. What an argument for value..

 

[Habs Halifax]

Patch < Patch + Fucale.

Yes, Lindgren is worth more than literally nothing. What an argument for value..

Patch & Lindgren > Patch and Fucale.

Fucale is the one who has no value. You try to sweeten the deal with Fucale on top of Patch and they laugh at you. Lindgren is an intriguing young goalie and depending on the team, it might make the difference at getting the futures we are asking for

 

[Lshap]

Giving Tavares $12,5m is crazy. Personally, I think he's more $9m territory, but someone will give $10,5m.

$10.5 sounds about right. And given the cap increase it's workable. We get hung up on cap space like it has inherent value, when it simply represents unused potential. I remember looking at teams' salary structures two/three years ago -- most successful teams back then had about one-third of their cap eaten up by three players. Kane, Toews, Seabrook; Crosby, Malkin, Kessel; Kopitar, Doughty, Quick; Lundqvist, Nash, Stepan; Stamkos, Bishop, Hedman, etc. Cap's going up to, I think, $80M, so that same one-third model now means about $26/27M for your top-3 salaries.

Obviously there's no magic formula, but the best GMs seem to be less concerned with massive salaries than with locking down top talent. Spend money, just make it count. If Tavares even becomes a UFA (50/50) and is interested in Montreal (possible, but unlikely) I'd have no problem with locking down that level of talent for big money. Yeah, we'd have him, Price and Weber using up around $30M, which is high for any team's top-3, but you've finally got three main pillars to build upon.

Of course, there's a catch. A big one. That top-heavy salary model only works if your mid and low-end salaries are really good. Tavares would be a big investment that makes sense only if we have high-value youth on cheap contracts. Every successful team is built on prospects, which has been the Habs worst area. If our awful youth resume turns around, then Tavares is worth it. Dump a couple of unneeded mid-level contracts and we even have room for Pacioretty. It means we're gambling on prospects -- many of which we're only drafting next month. But if we add high-end young talent, we'll start seeing the benefits in two/three seasons while Tavares is still in his prime. On the other hand, if our prospects continue to suck and we blow this upcoming draft, then we're a dumpster fire with or without Tavares.

 

[Kriss E]

Patch & Lindgren > Patch and Fucale.

Fucale is the one who has no value. You try to sweeten the deal with Fucale on top of Patch and they laugh at you. Lindgren is an intriguing young goalie and depending on the team, it might make the difference at getting the futures we are asking for

Yes Lindgren is better than Fucale, he's also worst than a 2nd round pick.
Patch + 2nd > Patch + Lindgren.

All this talking for no reason. Of course Lindgren isn't literally worst nothing. Did not think this needed to be explained.
The argument is that he isn't worth much of anything. You're not going to sweeten anything with him. He isn't a proven or hot commodity, he isn't special, he doesn't set himself apart from many other goalies of his ilk.
If Florida is completely desperate for a goalie, maybe they ask him to be involved in a trade. In no way shape or form would any team back up of a deal because Lindgren is not involved though.
That is the point.
Is he worth a 3rd or a 4th....who gives a crap.

 

[Milhouse40]

Max Pacioretty has value. Brendan Gallagher has value. A 3rd overall has value. Zadina has value.
Charlie Lindgren has pretty much no value. He has close to no NHL experience, his stats in both the AHL and NHL are not very interesting.
What he has is 3 NHL games a few years ago where he did well. He has 2 shutouts last year. Beyond that, we rely on his junior days. Now considering the terrible make up of our teams here and in the AHL, he still showed some interesting things but nothing outwordly. That's about it.
If Lindgren was NHL ready, we would not have re-signed Niemi. He is still a question mark at this point.

If you take things too literal, then yes he has value. The value of a young goalie prospect that has not proven anything yet with rather mediocre stats in AHL-NHL thus far, in a time where goalies have a rather lower market value.

Although you are right for 30 teams.....i think you MIGHT be wrong for 1 team.

Lindgren might not have impressive stats but we only have a small sample size . His 91.4% in the NHL is still better than Darling so far.
It's still better than whatever the Canes has. His stats last year were better than Darlin and Ward. The Canes only have 21-22yo in the pipe, with none of them being good in the AHL yet.

Unless they resign Ward, they don't even have a #2 goalie and Darling was terrible last year.
With Dudley in place, Lindgren might be a very good add-on to a trade for the Canes.
But that's only for the Canes.

 

[Kriss E]

Although you are right for 30 teams.....i think you MIGHT be wrong for 1 team.

Lindgren might not have impressive stats but we only have a small sample size . His 91.4% in the NHL is still better than Darling so far.
It's still better than whatever the Canes has. His stats last year were better than Darlin and Ward. The Canes only have 21-22yo in the pipe, with none of them being good in the AHL yet.

Unless they resign Ward, they don't even have a #2 goalie and Darling was terrible last year.
With Dudley in place, Lindgren might be a very good add-on to a trade for the Canes.
But that's only for the Canes.

Sure, maybe he can be a fit for one team. Heck, maybe more teams would gladly take him on.
That wasn't really my argument. My point was that he isn't all that valuable. He isn't going to fetch you much of anything on the trade market.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes Lindgren is better than Fucale, he's also worst than a 2nd round pick.
Patch + 2nd > Patch + Lindgren.

All this talking for no reason. Of course Lindgren isn't literally worst nothing. Did not think this needed to be explained.
The argument is that he isn't worth much of anything. You're not going to sweeten anything with him. He isn't a proven or hot commodity, he isn't special, he doesn't set himself apart from many other goalies of his ilk.
If Florida is completely desperate for a goalie, maybe they ask him to be involved in a trade. In no way shape or form would any team back up of a deal because Lindgren is not involved though.
That is the point.
Is he worth a 3rd or a 4th....who gives a crap.

A 3rd or 4th is value. You said he has no value. And my point was how Lindgren sweetens a trade package with Patch. I think you understand my point now.

 

[417]

Although you are right for 30 teams.....i think you MIGHT be wrong for 1 team.

Lindgren might not have impressive stats but we only have a small sample size . His 91.4% in the NHL is still better than Darling so far.
It's still better than whatever the Canes has. His stats last year were better than Darlin and Ward. The Canes only have 21-22yo in the pipe, with none of them being good in the AHL yet.

Unless they resign Ward, they don't even have a #2 goalie and Darling was terrible last year.
With Dudley in place, Lindgren might be a very good add-on to a trade for the Canes.
But that's only for the Canes.

Scott Darling's sv % every year in the NHL before he signed with the Canes was as follows.

2014-15: .936%
2015-16: .915%
2016-17: .924%

He averaged a stellar .925% spread over 3 seasons with the Hawks, which amounted to 75 games.

In Carolina this year...his save % was .888%

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Although you are right for 30 teams.....i think you MIGHT be wrong for 1 team.

Lindgren might not have impressive stats but we only have a small sample size . His 91.4% in the NHL is still better than Darling so far.
It's still better than whatever the Canes has. His stats last year were better than Darlin and Ward. The Canes only have 21-22yo in the pipe, with none of them being good in the AHL yet.

Unless they resign Ward, they don't even have a #2 goalie and Darling was terrible last year.
With Dudley in place, Lindgren might be a very good add-on to a trade for the Canes.
But that's only for the Canes.

Canes have tried the "back-up goalie who looks good for short stints" a few times and each time it was a failure.

Khudobin was the best and had 1 good season and then struggled (coincidentally, after Bill Peters arrived).
Lack had 82 games over 2 seasons of solid performance and couldn't beat out Cam Ward for a spot (again, under Bill Peters).
Darling had 75 games over 3 seasons with an overall .922 SV% before failing in Carolina (again, under Bill Peters).

I don't think the Canes are going to give up much for a guy like Lindgren who had poor numbers in the AHL and "meh" numbers in 14 NHL games.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think this off season, outside of the management moves.. could be just as bad as any under Bergevin. Desperation by a bad GM should create some awful awful moves.

 

[Team_Spirit]

I think this off season, outside of the management moves.. could be just as bad as any under Bergevin. Desperation by a bad GM should create some awful awful moves.

How could he do worse than the '16 summer?

yikes

 

[OldCraig71]

How could he do worse than the '16 summer?

yikes

Never underestimate Marc Bergevin, he might make a trade for Lucic.

 

[Vachon23]

Patch & Lindgren > Patch and Fucale.

Fucale is the one who has no value. You try to sweeten the deal with Fucale on top of Patch and they laugh at you. Lindgren is an intriguing young goalie and depending on the team, it might make the difference at getting the futures we are asking for

that’s intriguing because if I’m a DG, I think I would prefer go after Fucale than Lindgren ! Fucale and a better stats and more wins then Lindgren this years in the AHL, he is younger, he was a good prospect in juniors, he won everywhere he’s been, apart in the AHL ( Memorial Cup, Gold Medal in the WJC, Spengler Cup), I don’t really see a futur for Lindgren has a starter in the NHL, maybe a back-up but it’s that. I don’t see a futur in Fucale to, but I would prefer bet on Fucale. I think he didn’t had a real chance to prove himself

 

[Vachon23]

How could he do worse than the '16 summer?

yikes

he did worse in 2017 ! at least in 2016, he had Radulov !

 

[Habs Halifax]

that’s intriguing because if I’m a DG, I think I would prefer go after Fucale than Lindgren ! Fucale and a better stats and more wins then Lindgren this years in the AHL, he is younger, he was a good prospect in juniors, he won everywhere he’s been, apart in the AHL ( Memorial Cup, Gold Medal in the WJC, Spengler Cup), I don’t really see a futur for Lindgren has a starter in the NHL, maybe a back-up but it’s that. I don’t see a futur in Fucale to, but I would prefer bet on Fucale. I think he didn’t had a real chance to prove himself

Who got our AHL team into the playoffs in the last 6 years? Lindgren or Fucale? I know Fucale very well as I am a Moosheads season ticket holder. He is the type of goalie that plays very well under a good defensive team structure. Look at what he did in the Spengler cup last year for example. However, Lindgren has the higher ceiling at the moment. No doubt in my mind Lindgen is the more confident goalie and his mobility is very very good. He raised eyebrows last year in his 14 games... on our team with a horrible team defense. The AHL team was even more of a mess than our NHL team IMO.

 

[Vachon23]

Who got our AHL team into the playoffs in the last 6 years? Lindgren or Fucale? I know Fucale very well as I am a Moosheads season ticket holder. He is the type of goalie that plays very well under a good defensive team structure. Look at what he did in the Spengler cup last year for example. However, Lindgren has the higher ceiling at the moment. No doubt in my mind Lindgen is the more confident goalie and his mobility is very very good. He raised eyebrows last year in his 14 games... on our team with a horrible team defense. The AHL team was even more of a mess than our NHL team IMO.

yes Lindgren last year was really good ! But this year.. if you can’t be good in the AHL, imagine in the NHL

 

[Habs Halifax]

yes Lindgren last year was really good ! But this year.. if you can’t be good in the AHL, imagine in the NHL

NHL is what counts and he was very good except for one game against the Coyotes. As far as the AHL... not putting much value into it cause the entire team we depleted with talent and they had a horrible coach. Our NHL team had Juulsen, Scherbak, DLR, Hudon who would be our AHL teams best players. Think about that. Even Price on his best day couldn't save our AHL team last year

 

[montreal]

that’s intriguing because if I’m a DG, I think I would prefer go after Fucale than Lindgren ! Fucale and a better stats and more wins then Lindgren this years in the AHL, he is younger, he was a good prospect in juniors, he won everywhere he’s been, apart in the AHL ( Memorial Cup, Gold Medal in the WJC, Spengler Cup), I don’t really see a futur for Lindgren has a starter in the NHL, maybe a back-up but it’s that. I don’t see a futur in Fucale to, but I would prefer bet on Fucale. I think he didn’t had a real chance to prove himself

Fucale has zero value since most teams know he can be had for free if the Habs don't give him his QO. He is younger then Lindgren but Lindgren has been much better then him overall and has shown some things in the NHL which make his less risky.

 

[CapSpace]

Never underestimate Marc Bergevin, he might make a trade for Lucic.

I could live with Lucic if we send them Pacio+Shaw and we get Klefbom+10th+Lucic.

 

[Adam Michaels]

According to George Laraque, Kovalchuk has asked Kovalev about Montreal.

Take this with a HUGE grain of salt as Laraque is not the most reliable. But it's what he said today.

 

[The Great Weal]

According to George Laraque, Kovalchuk has asked Kovalev about Montreal.

Take this with a HUGE grain of salt as Laraque is not the most reliable. But it's what he said today.

Kovalchuk would be a great add. 1 year deal and flip him at the deadline, it's perfect. I seriously doubt he would want to come here though.

 

[Fazkovsky]

Kovalchuk-tavares-gallagher
Galchenyuk-Drouin-Zadina


hanifin-weber

 

[WeThreeKings]

According to George Laraque, Kovalchuk has asked Kovalev about Montreal.

Take this with a HUGE grain of salt as Laraque is not the most reliable. But it's what he said today.

Doesn't even make any sense.. Kovalev hasn't been here in what, 10 years? He would just ask Radulov who would no doubt give him some weariness about negotiating with Bergevin.

 

[Zorba]

Kovalchuk would be a great add. 1 year deal and flip him at the deadline, it's perfect. I seriously doubt he would want to come here though.

Lol
Kovalchuk is not signing In Montreal for 1 year when other teams will give him 3-4
Cmon man. You’re smarter than that