Official Coyotes 2019-20 Season Roster Discussion

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Per David Pagnotta on Twitter:

"Jake Gardiner & his camp are "working on options," I'm told. Heard 4 teams have offers for his services, all varying in term & dollars. Montreal is believed to be one of the teams with a multi-year deal on the table. Still unclear when a decision will be made."

Gotta figure we're one of those 4 teams. How can we get this done?

 

[Jamieh]

Per David Pagnotta on Twitter:

"Jake Gardiner & his camp are "working on options," I'm told. Heard 4 teams have offers for his services, all varying in term & dollars. Montreal is believed to be one of the teams with a multi-year deal on the table. Still unclear when a decision will be made."

Gotta figure we're one of those 4 teams. How can we get this done?

We have $30 million on D right now, no idea why we would be in on Gardiner?? He plays LD, not exactly where we need improvement.

 

[_Del_]

Gardiner and Carter (+?) is a lot better than Goligoski. I've also been a Goligoski supporter, so I'm not in a hurry to dump him, but a combination of that previously reported deal and a Gardiner signing could actually help shift some money around and away from D.

 

[tucknroll]

Yeh, if we signed Gardiner before moving out another D (hopefully Goligoski if you ask me) it would be a mistake. We are already 7 million above the average spent on defence among the top teams from last year (excluding columbus from my averages due to huge turn around, but they're still 2 mill below average on defence).
Among my top 6 teams in the league (Tampa, Leafs, Capitals, Nashville, Jets, Blues) we are 8.5 mill over their average spent as of now. For the mentioned teams the average cap for forwards is 51.98 mill (8.5 mill assumed for Marner, Point and 7 mill each for Laine and Connor). Defence average is 21.05 mill. Average for goalies spent is 6.72 mill.
Teams aren't winning from the net out anymore. Your defence just needs to be responsible in their own end and good in transition. Goalies need to be reliable and cheap. Good teams build very strong forward cores and adjust the back ends the best they can.

 

[Imaravencawcaw]

Yeh, if we signed Gardiner before moving out another D (hopefully Goligoski if you ask me) it would be a mistake. We are already 7 million above the average spent on defence among the top teams from last year (excluding columbus from my averages due to huge turn around, but they're still 2 mill below average on defence).
Among my top 6 teams in the league (Tampa, Leafs, Capitals, Nashville, Jets, Blues) we are 8.5 mill over their average spent as of now. For the mentioned teams the average cap for forwards is 51.98 mill (8.5 mill assumed for Marner, Point and 7 mill each for Laine and Connor). Defence average is 21.05 mill. Average for goalies spent is 6.72 mill.
Teams aren't winning from the net out anymore. Your defence just needs to be responsible in their own end and good in transition. Goalies need to be reliable and cheap. Good teams build very strong forward cores and adjust the back ends the best they can.

Chayka has mentioned multiple times that his strategy is to build from the net out and be strong down the middle, which is quite the dichotomy from building up a strong forward core. His premium positions are goalie, D, and C. It'll be interesting to see which philosophy is better or if both can work.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

I personally don't see us going after Gardiner. We'd have to trade Goligoski which I don't see happening. I like our D as is, and the consistency between seasons for them all is good too. Need chemistry on the back line. I think we're too hard on Gogo a lot of the time. We're asking him to be a #4 D, or lower, and I think he fits that spot very well

 

[Jakey53]

Chayka has mentioned multiple times that his strategy is to build from the net out and be strong down the middle, which is quite the dichotomy from building up a strong forward core. His premium positions are goalie, D, and C. It'll be interesting to see which philosophy is better or if both can work.

You build from the net out. Chayka is right.

 

[Jamieh]

Refresh my memory, on LD we have OEL, Goligoski, and Chychrun. Do I have one of them on the wrong side? If I am correct that would have a 3rd pairing D at $4.5 million at min. Not exactly a good recipe.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

Refresh my memory, on LD we have OEL, Goligoski, and Chychrun. Do I have one of them on the wrong side? If I am correct that would have a 3rd pairing D at $4.5 million at min. Not exactly a good recipe.

That's correct

OEL-Demers
Chychrun-Hammer
Goli-Toaster/Bush

I would agree with you that it's not the best to spend that much on your blue line, but the issue with that is that I really like our blue line.

 

[Jamieh]

That's correct

OEL-Demers
Chychrun-Hammer
Goli-Toaster/Bush

I would agree with you that it's not the best to spend that much on your blue line, but the issue with that is that I really like our blue line.

Yeah I would continue with ours and let the older fellas go away as their contracts expire. I just don't get adding Gardiner meaning him or Chick play 3rd line. That money will be needed elsewhere soon enough.

 

[tucknroll]

Chayka has mentioned multiple times that his strategy is to build from the net out and be strong down the middle, which is quite the dichotomy from building up a strong forward core. His premium positions are goalie, D, and C. It'll be interesting to see which philosophy is better or if both can work.

To be fair i think a lot of teams have focus'd building this way for years, but the teams that won cups or have been very successful in the season like Pitts, Boston, LA, Washington, Tampa, even Chicago, etc have gone in with such strong forward cores that teams struggle to match their depth and have changed the way most teams try and compete. Even the Blues are only going into next season spending the average on their blue line. Speaking as a D myself i can tell from my experience that a good forward group can make a bad defence look pretty decent, but a good defence will struggle way more to make a bad forward group look any good..... But good D and good forwards can make a bad goalie look good (ex. Tampa made Domingue a decent back-up). Not saying a team with net out approach can't be successful but i do believe it will be more difficult for the teams that do it.

 

[Jamieh]

To be fair i think a lot of teams have focus'd building this way for years, but the teams that won cups or have been very successful in the season like Pitts, Boston, LA, Washington, Tampa, etc have gone in with such strong forward cores that teams struggle to match their depth and have changed the way most teams try and compete. Even the Blues are only going into next season spending the average on their blue line. Speaking as a D myself i can tell from my experience that a good forward group can make a bad defence look pretty decent, but a good defence will struggle way more to make a bad forward group look any good..... But good D and good forwards can make a bad goalie look good (ex. Tampa made Domingue a decent back-up). Not saying a team with net out approach can't be successful but i do believe it will be more difficult for the teams that do it.

Not to mention the talk for years was about Blues D crapping the bed, now they are the poster boys for building from D???

 

[Mosby]

Yeh, if we signed Gardiner before moving out another D (hopefully Goligoski if you ask me) it would be a mistake. We are already 7 million above the average spent on defence among the top teams from last year (excluding columbus from my averages due to huge turn around, but they're still 2 mill below average on defence).
Among my top 6 teams in the league (Tampa, Leafs, Capitals, Nashville, Jets, Blues) we are 8.5 mill over their average spent as of now. For the mentioned teams the average cap for forwards is 51.98 mill (8.5 mill assumed for Marner, Point and 7 mill each for Laine and Connor). Defence average is 21.05 mill. Average for goalies spent is 6.72 mill.
Teams aren't winning from the net out anymore. Your defence just needs to be responsible in their own end and good in transition. Goalies need to be reliable and cheap. Good teams build very strong forward cores and adjust the back ends the best they can.

I don't think dollars spent on D is the best comparison. Tampa for example will be way higher when Sergachev goes from his ELC to his next deal. Maybe a better metric is average age relative to dollars spent.

 

[Mosby]

Re: Gardiner, don't really see a need, unless it's a long-term play. Goligoski has transitioned fine to RD in the past as well. Or trade him for Carter.

 

[tucknroll]

I don't think dollars spent on D is the best comparison. Tampa for example will be way higher when Sergachev goes from his ELC to his next deal. Maybe a better metric is average age relative to dollars spent.

I think it all depends on how you rearrange your roster when someone needs to resign. Same argument could be made with Dunn in st. Louis or Dermott in Toronto. These entry levels are important to building a competitive team. Especially in Tampa considering they are so tight to the cap limit already, the same argument can be made when they have to sign Cirelli and Joseph. They could easily end up moving someone out, they have foote, raddysh, Stephens and katchouk to step in. So I wouldn't use players coming off their entry level contracts as the argument against the dollars spent logic because you don't know where they will end up allocating that cap space from via trade or letting players go. Carolina is the best reasoning against the dollars spent argument i think but that's because they have so many players on entry levels that it throws them well off the average but they are still competitive.
Or maybe San Jose who's spent a fortune on their d compared to their forwards (who have taken major discounts which hurts the averages idea even more) but they have burns and Karlsson.. Arizona who has spent almost as much doesn't have one D at their level let alone 2.

 

[Jakey53]

I think it all depends on how you rearrange your roster when someone needs to resign. Same argument could be made with Dunn in st. Louis or Dermott in Toronto. These entry levels are important to building a competitive team. Especially in Tampa considering they are so tight to the cap limit already, the same argument can be made when they have to sign Cirelli and Joseph. They could easily end up moving someone out, they have foote, raddysh, Stephens and katchouk to step in. So I wouldn't use players coming off their entry level contracts as the argument against the dollars spent logic because you don't know where they will end up allocating that cap space from via trade or letting players go. Carolina is the best reasoning against the dollars spent argument i think but that's because they have so many players on entry levels that it throws them well off the average but they are still competitive.
Or maybe San Jose who's spent a fortune on their d compared to their forwards (who have taken major discounts which hurts the averages idea even more) but they have burns and Karlsson.. Arizona who has spent almost as much doesn't have one D at their level let alone 2.

What team does?

 

[SR]

Re: Gardiner, don't really see a need, unless it's a long-term play. Goligoski has transitioned fine to RD in the past as well. Or trade him for Carter.

Why is Carter's name being thrown around. Is there something that linked us to him?

 

[Mosby]

The Kings writer from the Fourth Period had a Carter for Goligoski rumor earlier this summer.

From the “there’s no such thing as an untradeable contract” department, it’s believed that during the time when the Arizona Coyotes were discussing the acquisition of Phil Kessel, they presented an offer for Jeff Carter.

Unlike the prospective Edmonton deal, this one was for the over-30 set, a trade that featured one of the Coyotes veteran defenseman, with my guess being Alex Goligoski (the eldest at 33) as the return. It would have been a give and get scenario – Los Angeles shortens up a contract commitment and salary cap hit with two seasons remaining on Goligoski’s deal (Carter has three) while the Coyotes stood to save cash ($9.8 million v. $7 million owed on the deals), but with the Kings right defense depth chart at capacity, the Move Carter program continues.

 

[SniperHF]

I see why Stepan would be moved, we can use that money better. But I would keep Richardson around, he's good insurance and leadership at that rate.

Stepan goes down to 5 million real bucks this year, so he's more a value buy for us @ 5 than before.

BUT he's owed a big bonus next season, so if he's gonna get moved I'd look at after this season before the draft. It wouldn't make sense to eat 3M only to move him at the deadline in 2 years, you move him before paying that and get another body. Particularly if Dvorak develops further.

 

[Jamieh]

Stepan goes down to 5 million real bucks this year, so he's more a value buy for us @ 5 than before.

BUT he's owed a big bonus next season, so if he's gonna get moved I'd look at after this season before the draft. It wouldn't make sense to eat 3M only to move him at the deadline in 2 years, you move him before paying that and get another body. Particularly if Dvorak develops further.

It's more about Cap than money moving forward. Unless of course our young centers don't progress. But then we have bigger issues.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Yeh, if we signed Gardiner before moving out another D (hopefully Goligoski if you ask me) it would be a mistake. We are already 7 million above the average spent on defence among the top teams from last year (excluding columbus from my averages due to huge turn around, but they're still 2 mill below average on defence).
Among my top 6 teams in the league (Tampa, Leafs, Capitals, Nashville, Jets, Blues) we are 8.5 mill over their average spent as of now. For the mentioned teams the average cap for forwards is 51.98 mill (8.5 mill assumed for Marner, Point and 7 mill each for Laine and Connor). Defence average is 21.05 mill. Average for goalies spent is 6.72 mill.
Teams aren't winning from the net out anymore. Your defence just needs to be responsible in their own end and good in transition. Goalies need to be reliable and cheap. Good teams build very strong forward cores and adjust the back ends the best they can.

Not a great time to be calling those the top 6 teams and analyzing their D. Nashville just traded Subban who had a 9M cap hit and are leaning on Fabbro to step up. He's on an ELC. Winnipeg just shipped out Trouba, and lost Myers. Tampa has Sergachev on ELC. Previously had quite a few dmen making 4M+.

Really you can build a team however you want if you have the right guys. We don't have high end forward depth like TOR or WSH or TB so for us it makes sense to build out from the net. Our above average D almost got our 4th line forward squad into the playoffs last year.

 

[Furiousz Czerkawski]

Quick fantasy-related Q from a non-Coyotes observer: How many games do you expect/predict Ilya Lyubushkin gets into this year , with or without other D injuries? (It's a hits league, for those with the weary looks.)

 

[hbk]

Quick fantasy-related Q from a non-Coyotes observer: How many games do you expect/predict Ilya Lyubushkin gets into this year , with or without other D injuries? (It's a hits league, for those with the weary looks.)

55

 

[Murf]

I think this will be a much better year for both Keller and Stepan. They will benefit from either being on the same line as Kessel, or by Kessel’s drawing attention away from the Stepan, Keller and ____ line.

 

[rt]

Carolina got Erik Haula for absolutely nothing.
They took Toronto's first round pick for free.
They signed Dzingle for waaay less than anyone figured he'd get on July 1st
They signed Gardiner for waaay less than anyone figured he'd get on July 1st

Monster off-season. They should be competitive enough that Williams will re-sign after the Holidays.