Official Coyotes 2019-20 Roster Discussion Thread #5

[Jamieh]

Yes, but you also believe that OEL has negative trade value. And you’re wrong.

I'm not sure what value he has but an $8.25 million a year contract that he is not worth. I see him as kinda similar to PK except he plays the left side which almost no one's in search of. I dint think PK got back Eichel or Barzal.

 

[YotesFan47]

Centers definitely help, but this isn't anything new, as you correctly bolded the "No 1st line C" concept, but where do players like Hanzal rank there - is he a true #1 C? Or was he more of a strong #2 C who had to play up, where Whitney and Vrbata drove that line?

Hall should be able to help Dvorak and Garland, which he has. Kessel, even in a down year, should be able to open things up for the 2nd C, whether that is Hayton, Soderberg, Stepan, or Schmaltz. Keller could also do some of that lifting.

Very few teams are complete in every area of the lineup, but having quality wings with an average C has gotten us to the playoffs before. Why can't it work as easily now?

That was a different team model.

Today our center "depth" is Dvorak, Stepan, Richardson and hopefully sooner than later, Hayton with Schmaltz and Soderberg filling in holes.

When we were winning with Hanzal, Whitney and Vrbata, we also had Langkow, Turris (was a shit but played well enough), Vermette (was outstanding here) and Gordon.

Hanzal - Dvorak
Langkow - Soderberg
Vermette - Stepan
Turris - Hayton
Gordon - Richardson

Our wingers should be better but that is not what we are getting. Whitney and Vrbata blew it up here, they were huge parts of our success. If 2 of Hall, Kessel, Keller, Garland and Schmaltz could replicate the stats of Whitney and Vrbata, we would probably be having a much better season. Also, our blue line was a bunch of monsters. Our blue line today wouldn't be able to hold a candle to that team.

Yandle, Morris, OEL, Aucoin, Rozsival, Klesla, Schlemko, Stone, Rundblad. That blue line had some heavy hitters that weren't afraid of shit and chuck full of true leaders. If we had that today, this team would in the playoffs. I miss that group. Short lived but so exciting to watch.

 

[rt]

How much is OEL worth? A mid to late 1st and team's 3rd or 4th best prospect?

 

[Jamieh]

How much is OEL worth? A mid to late 1st and team's 4th best prospect?

Depends on the team, he might get that? But not really that many teams without at least a comparable 1D and over $8 million in Cap space. Plus that pesky NMC

 

[hbk]

How much is OEL worth? A mid to late 1st and team's 4th best prospect?

I wonder if OeL would welcome a reunion with Tippett. Tippett would have to give a sell job on Edmonton but Swedes have a long tradition of thriving in western canada.

RNH and Pujarvri?

 

[Jamieh]

I wonder if OeL would welcome a reunion with Tippett. Tippett would have to give a sell job on Edmonton but Swedes have a long tradition of thriving in western canada.

RNH and Pujarvri?

That is an obvious target. I would roll that dice.

 

[rt]

I wonder if OeL would welcome a reunion with Tippett. Tippett would have to give a sell job on Edmonton but Swedes have a long tradition of thriving in western canada.

RNH and Pujarvri?

Given that RNH has been playing LW for several years, and that his contract expires to UFA after next season, I could see Edmonton maybe doing that. Especially if the market is cool on Pulju. But I'm not sure I want two more wingers for OEL.

 

[Jamieh]

Given that RNH has been playing LW for several years, and that his contract expires to UFA after next season, I could see Edmonton maybe doing that. Especially if the market is cool on Pulju. But I'm not sure I want two more wingers for OEL.

Nuge can play center for the Coyotes. He makes no sense as 3rd line center for the Oilers.

 

[rt]

That is an obvious target. I would roll that dice.

It's a tough call. He's another hybrid winger-center but not really a center type like Schmaltz. And you have to think he regresses to his 55pt pre-McDavid self as soon as he gets here. The fact that he's unsigned beyond next season is tough, because even if he puts up just 50pts here, he's still going to want to get paid for his McDavid era production. Then again, Puljujarvi is absolutely crushing Liiga right now. But did absolutely dick-squat in the NHL, and even in the minors he was "only" 0.70ppg.

I'd probably do it just to get the flexibility. It's a better return than Martin Kaut and Colorado's 26th overall pick.

 

[rt]

Nuge can play center for the Coyotes. He makes no sense as 3rd line center for the Oilers.

Good point. I'd probably do that deal. I think it's as good as we could hope for. Not sure if Edmonton would really be into it. They've got Nurse and Klefbom who aren't exactly cheap, and then Jones on the roster and Broberg coming up. But if Puljujarvi is never going to play for them anyway, and they don't think they're going to offer Nugent-Hopkins another contract (which is certainly possible), I could see it. Just in terms of consolidating two assets into thee best single asset they can get. Which does make some sense if you're Edmonton.

 

[Jamieh]

It's a tough call. He's another hybrid winger-center but not really a center type like Schmaltz. And you have to think he regresses to his 55pt pre-McDavid self as soon as he gets here. The fact that he's unsigned beyond next season is tough, because even if he puts up just 50pts here, he's still going to want to get paid for his McDavid era production. Then again, Puljujarvi is absolutely crushing Liiga right now. But did absolutely dick-squat in the NHL, and even in the minors he was "only" 0.70ppg.

I'd probably do it just to get the flexibility. It's a better return than Martin Kaut and Colorado's 26th overall pick.

I think of it more along the lines of now being able to hopefully use 3 number 2 centers. Nuge is also very responsible defensively. OEL seems to have just run his course here and what he bringing us much easier to get through free agency that that number 2 center is. Plus the cost savings and possible rejuvenated poolparty. It would be a risk worth taking with the ability to reset short term from a contract that might not look too good going forward.

 

[rt]

I think of it more along the lines of now being able to hopefully use 3 number 2 centers. Nuge is also very responsible defensively. OEL seems to have just run his course here and what he bringing us much easier to get through free agency that that number 2 center is. Plus the cost savings and possible rejuvenated poolparty. It would be a risk worth taking with the ability to reset short term from a contract that might not look too good going forward.

Fair enough. I'm sold. Not sure what Edmonton fans would make of it, though. If they think his trade value is actually that of a 70pt center, then they'll hate it. I think outside of Edmonton, you have to shave off 20% for the McDavid/Draisaitl effect.

 

[Jamieh]

Fair enough. I'm sold. Not sure what Edmonton fans would make of it, though. If they think his trade value is actually that of a 70pt center, then they'll hate it. I think outside of Edmonton, you have to shave off 20% for the McDavid/Draisaitl effect.

If, and that's a big if, OEL could get back some of his swagger Oiler fans won't even remember Nuge!!! However if he plays like the last couple of years Oh Boy Life will not he fun for him. If they think Nuge is a 70 pt center well I cant help that disillusion.

 

[rt]

If, and that's a big if, OEL could get back some of his swagger Oiler fans won't even remember Nuge!!! However if he plays like the last couple of years Oh Boy Life will not he fun for him. If they think Nuge is a 70 pt center well I cant help that disillusion.

Russell has negative trade value, right? He's a dump at this point, and one they'd likely have to attach an asset to? What about Chiasson, has he reached that level? Just thinking about how we can sweeten the pot, and add some cap load mitigation.

 

[Jamieh]

Russell has negative trade value, right? He's a dump at this point, and one they'd likely have to attach an asset to? What about Chiasson, has he reached that level? Just thinking about how we can sweeten the pot, and add some cap load mitigation.

I would say yes on Russell but Chiasson should be fine. I think they would love to ge rud if Russell. Wonder if one of our steady D could get Russel and a prospect in the deal?

 

[rt]

Like OEL+Fischer/Vinny for RNH+Russell+Puljujarvi?

 

[_Del_]

I know I shouldn't expect much return, and I like Puljujaarvi, but Russel and Nuge are completely underwhelming to me. I get that Russel is there for cap, but RNH is more of the same here, imo. One-year of RNH's zero intensity doesn't do much for me. He's a better top-six center option than Schmaltz, but over all that's incredibly meh.

 

[rt]

I know I shouldn't expect much return, and I like Puljujaarvi, but Russel and Nuge are completely underwhelming to me. I get that Russel is there for cap, but RNH is more of the same here, imo. One-year of RNH's zero intensity doesn't do much for me. He's a better top-six center option than Schmaltz, but over all that's incredibly meh.

At least he's not one-dimensional. He's more like a Stepan that can skate or a Schmaltz that can defend.

 

[Grimes]

Like OEL+Fischer/Vinny for RNH+Russell+Puljujarvi?

I could live with this. Moving OEL would be one of the hardest decisions Chayka could make. If he returns to form this blows up in his face, in a huge way. Was this the worst season he will ever have? Or is his wrist totally shot and he has been beaten down similarly to PK. Is 28-30 the new decline of defensmen who break into the league on their teens? Starting to seem that way.

The fact that we may not be in the division in the division with EDM in two seasons makes this more palatable. The fact that we are moving to the Central where there are large brushing teams like WPG, DAL and STL makes me think RNH would get eaten alive.

 

[_Del_]

At least he's not one-dimensional. He's more like a Stepan that can skate or a Schmaltz that can defend.

It's true, I just don't see a year's worth of RNH anything terribly attractive. You're trading OEL for a rental and prospect. and taking back a dump. Doesn't make sense to me. I'd get over it if it happens, but not something I'd seek out.

 

[rt]

It's true, I just don't see a year's worth of RNH anything terribly attractive. You're trading OEL for a rental and prospect. and taking back a dump. Doesn't make sense to me. I'd get over it if it happens, but not something I'd seek out.

The most appealing thing is being unshackled and having that flexibility.

 

[Foggy1097]

Nuge is past prime for sure...basically zero interest. The center has to be the focal point of any OEL deal, or a slightly younger D with some untapped potential like Ghost. I would love to get Ghost and Voracek somehow with OEL and another piece or two going to PHI. That, or full court press BUF on Eichel so OEL can play with Dahlin and Olofsson. OEL + Dvo + sweetener for Eichel.

 

[Jamieh]

Nuge is past prime for sure...basically zero interest. The center has to be the focal point of any OEL deal, or a slightly younger D with some untapped potential like Ghost. I would love to get Ghost and Voracek somehow with OEL and another piece or two going to PHI. That, or full court press BUF on Eichel so OEL can play with Dahlin and Olofsson. OEL + Dvo + sweetener for Eichel.

Why do you think you can get a prime return for our guy who looks to be past his best before date? Take a closer look at OEL vs Nuge and I just can't see your thoughts make sense?? You want Buffalo to give you a franchise center for a 2nd pairing D and 2nd line center??

 

[Foggy1097]

Why do you think you can get a prime return for our guy who looks to be past his best before date? Take a closer look at OEL vs Nuge and I just can't see your thoughts make sense?? You want Buffalo to give you a franchise center for a 2nd pairing D and 2nd line center??

This all hinges on Eichel wanting out and putting them in a tough position. If he doesn’t want out then there’s nothing to even talk about. I think OEL + Dvo + another good piece (maybe a 2021 1st rd) isn’t as far off as you think if he actually was disgruntled and wanted out.

 

[Jamieh]

This all hinges on Eichel wanting out and putting them in a tough position. If he doesn’t want out then there’s nothing to even talk about. I think OEL + Dvo + another good piece (maybe a 2021 1st rd) isn’t as far off as you think if he actually was disgruntled and wanted out.

But why does Buffalo want OEL at $8.25 million to play on the 2nd pairing? There will certainly be better offers that fit their needs if Eichel is on the block.