Official Coyotes 2019-20 Roster Discussion Thread #5

[YotesFan47]

Not sure how well received this would be by either team but what about OEL for Ghost, Patrick, and '20 1st (draft Zion Nybeck)?

It's definitely a magic bean move but if we get 2/3 working well on this team it could be a net positive. Also cuts cap.

 

[Jormungandr]

Patrick hasn’t played a single game this year due to migraines. I’d look somewhere else.

 

[Fuhrious]

I'm already dreading the draft lottery... What a disaster this season has turned out to be.

 

[Foggy1097]

Not sure how well received this would be by either team but what about OEL for Ghost, Patrick, and '20 1st (draft Zion Nybeck)?

It's definitely a magic bean move but if we get 2/3 working well on this team it could be a net positive. Also cuts cap.

Funny, I actually was thinking about something centered around OEL for Ghost as well...I think Chayka has been interested in him for a bit now. It would be pretty nice to get Voracek in there somehow too. I feel like Voracek would be a really good match playing with Kessel. OEL + Fischer + ? for Ghost + Voracek.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Phil needs to play with players who not only have high skill level and hockey IQ, but also have incredible work ethic and do most of the work in the corners for him. We don’t have a single one of those players. Well maybe one, and he’s 5’10” 165 lbs so....

Could be a scheme thing. But Phil did work hard in Pittsburgh so it's odd. He'd probably bounce back under a more offensive minded system but either way it's a tough contract to move after the year he's had.

 

[Jakey53]

A few more points?? Matthew's has more goals than the highest point Coyote. I remember the mud slinging here when Nylander got $7 million, he would be the best player on the Coyotes, heck he might be the best Leaf this year. I'm trying not to discuss the Leafs here, not worry about my panties. Pointing at any other team changes absolutely nothing. The Coyotes have a very average core but they are now signed long term.

I'm talking about the team. It's about winning, not individual stats, and so far the Leafs have won squat. I agree, the Yotes core is average.

 

[Jamieh]

I'm talking about the team. It's about winning, not individual stats, and so far the Leafs have won squat. I agree, the Yotes core is average.

So 31 one teams are failures each year? High standards. I don't share them. And this isn't about the Leafs. Why not compare them to the Blues??

 

[Jakey53]

No one would be wrong to criticize our core right now, they can't win important regular season games, how can we expect them to win in the playoffs?

Our core is not elite, but it takes more than your core to win. You need that right mix and chemistry, and we don't have it.

 

[MIGs Dog]

So 31 one teams are failures each year? High standards. I don't share them. And this isn't about the Leafs. Why not compare them to the Blues??

 

[Jamieh]

Our core is not elite, but it takes more than your core to win. You need that right mix and chemistry, and we don't have it.

Everyone knows that Jakey but when your core is below average you have little chance of winning. And when that core takes the money it just isnt easy to build. The Coyotes will have 6 guys starting at roughly the $5.5 million mark and most nights have zero real 1st line players. That needs to be fixed.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Can you imagine Phil in South Florida? All hell would break loose.

What's wrong with him anyway? He wanted to come to Arizona so it seems weird it hasn't worked out. Have the wheels just come off?

I agree with what the others said but would also add he's 32. Players that are productive into their mid to late 30s discover that they need focused and intense off-season training. All of the rumors say this is not Kessel. He seems to get fatigued quicker than others on the ice.

 

[Jakey53]

So 31 one teams are failures each year? High standards. I don't share them. And this isn't about the Leafs. Why not compare them to the Blues??

For 16 teams the season is a failure. The Blues core is not elite but it is very very good, but their mix is elite which is evident. They are a very deep team and they just needed proper coaching to bring that out in them. I would pick TO's core over the Blues, but I would pick the Blues roster over TO, or the Yotes and many other teams as far as that goes.

 

[Jakey53]

Everyone knows that Jakey but when your core is below average you have little chance of winning. And when that core takes the money it just isnt easy to build. The Coyotes will have 6 guys starting at roughly the $5.5 million mark and most nights have zero real 1st line players. That needs to be fixed.

I think our core is average, maybe a bit above with better coaching, I don't know, but hopefully time will tell there. That is the reason Chayka traded for Hall as he had a chance to get a first line player, unfortunately that did not work. I'm not sure who you consider our core, but players like Stepan, Kessel and their contract is what is killing us, and even OEL with his salary. I'm not worried about Schmaltz, Keller, DVO or Chick for example as they are young and hopefully will grow. It's our old leadership that has let us down, not our kids. The kids and their contracts are fine.

 

[Jamieh]

I think our core is average, maybe a bit above with better coaching, I don't know, but hopefully time will tell there. That is the reason Chayka traded for Hall as he had a chance to get a first line player, unfortunately that did not work. I'm not sure who you consider our core, but players like Stepan, Kessel and their contract is what is killing us, and even OEL with his salary. I'm not worried about Schmaltz, Keller, DVO or Chick for example as they are young and hopefully will grow. It's our old leadership that has let us down, not our kids. The kids and their contracts are fine.

So if you were an NHL GM and you were negotiating with Schmaltz and Keller right now these are the contracts you would offer?

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Defensive zone breakouts are one of the most frustrating parts of the team. They used to be decent at it, maybe a season or two ago, and now having some much better offensive zone entry gainers, this shouldn't be an issue, but alas, it is. As I can only watch the games on TV, I have no clue what the forwards are doing to alleviate pressure on the D being forechecked, but evidently that part of the system is not working.

The D are stationed near the 'house' unable to get out to the wings when the puck is rimmed...and all we do is rim the puck 99% of the time. I think I can count on 1 hand this year the times we've used the middle zone breakout. It's ridiculous to have professional hockey players and tell them that the only way they can get it out of the zone is to throw it up the wall. I can understand telling a bunch of mites or squirts that's how we're going to keep it out of the middle of the ice, but not professionals. All the other teams station the 1 guy right out in front of the goalie and against our heavy forecheck all they do is hit that guy and there you go, another quick pass to a streaking winger and you're out of the zone. I just don't understand it from a schematic perspective, as it limits your ability to use what the defense is giving you. All of the other teams know what we do and the good ones know they don't have to pinch and we'll be sending a rim to their Dman who can then start their offense.

I want to hit myself over the head with a hammer every time I see a rim without the winger being there to accept it. Is there a emoji that shows someone pulling their hair out? Couldn't find one, but this guy will do!

 

[Heldig]

Everyone knows that Jakey but when your core is below average you have little chance of winning. And when that core takes the money it just isnt easy to build. The Coyotes will have 6 guys starting at roughly the $5.5 million mark and most nights have zero real 1st line players. That needs to be fixed.

I guess it depends on how you rate 1st line players. Points is the easiest metric. With 31 teams are there 31 1st line LW? C? RW? By that standard, incredibly, Keller (21), Garland (30) and Kessel (31) are all 1st line forwards. Hall is 16th among LW.

Since forever the main issue is no 1st line C. The top point getter at C is Schmaltz at 42 overall. Dvorak 57th. If you rank by points per game they are even lower in the rankings.

Without a top C it is so hard to tilt the ice. Keep possession. Match lines. Make his linemates better.

It takes real luck to land a #1 C. The 2 luckiest franchises in NHL history - Edmonton and Pittsburgh - currently have 2 franchise level C's each. All 4 due to lottery wins. OR a player picked later develops into one beyond expectations (eg Sebastion Aho was a second round pick). Rarely are they available in trade.

It is why I hoped the Coyotes would trade for Nylander last summer and convert him to C.

It is why I did not think trading for Hall was the best move when it was the C position that needed the help most (still a fan of Chayka making the move).

It is why there is very little I would not be willing to trade IF Florida inexplicably is willing to trade Barkov. Or Buffalo trading Eichel.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I guess it depends on how you rate 1st line players. Points is the easiest metric. With 31 teams are there 31 1st line LW? C? RW? By that standard, incredibly, Keller (21), Garland (30) and Kessel (31) are all 1st line forwards. Hall is 16th among LW.

Since forever the main issue is no 1st line C. The top point getter at C is Schmaltz at 42 overall. Dvorak 57th. If you rank by points per game they are even lower in the rankings.

Without a top C it is so hard to tilt the ice. Keep possession. Match lines. Make his linemates better.

It takes real luck to land a #1 C. The 2 luckiest franchises in NHL history - Edmonton and Pittsburgh - currently have 2 franchise level C's each. All 4 due to lottery wins. OR a player picked later develops into one beyond expectations (eg Sebastion Aho was a second round pick). Rarely are they available in trade.

It is why I hoped the Coyotes would trade for Nylander last summer and convert him to C.

It is why I did not think trading for Hall was the best move when it was the C position that needed the help most (still a fan of Chayka making the move).

It is why there is very little I would not be willing to trade IF Florida inexplicably is willing to trade Barkov. Or Buffalo trading Eichel.

Centers definitely help, but this isn't anything new, as you correctly bolded the "No 1st line C" concept, but where do players like Hanzal rank there - is he a true #1 C? Or was he more of a strong #2 C who had to play up, where Whitney and Vrbata drove that line?

Hall should be able to help Dvorak and Garland, which he has. Kessel, even in a down year, should be able to open things up for the 2nd C, whether that is Hayton, Soderberg, Stepan, or Schmaltz. Keller could also do some of that lifting.

Very few teams are complete in every area of the lineup, but having quality wings with an average C has gotten us to the playoffs before. Why can't it work as easily now?

 

[rt]

Win the 2nd or 3rd lottery and draft Byfield or Rossi? That would help the center situation.

 

[Grimes]

Win the 2nd or 3rd lottery and draft Byfield or Rossi? That would help the center situation.

Win the lotto, trade the pick, a prospect and OEL for Eichel.

 

[Jamieh]

Win the lotto, trade the pick, a prospect and OEL for Eichel.

Make the case for Buffalo needing a LD and having an abundance of centers.

 

[rt]

Win the lotto, trade the pick, a prospect and OEL for Eichel.

It's a beautiful thought until you remember OEL has a NMC and all of our dreams are shattered. LOL.

 

[rt]

Make the case for Buffalo needing a LD and having an abundance of centers.

OEL+3rd overall for Barzal?

 

[Jamieh]

OEL+3rd overall for Barzal?

More likely but unless Barzal's contract demands are whack I still don't see it.

 

[Grimes]

It's a beautiful thought until you remember OEL has a NMC and all of our dreams are shattered. LOL.

Maybe he would be enticed to mentor the fellow young Swede in the arts of two-way defense and underwear brand creation?

 

[rt]

More likely but unless Barzal's contract demands are whack I still don't see it.

Yes, but you also believe that OEL has negative trade value. And you’re wrong.