Prospect Info: Official Aleksander Barkov Calder Watch Thread!

[LUUUUUIS]

I doubt that. Maybe a better two-way player, but Mac is going to be the better offensive player.

Better Offensive = Better Overall?

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Cool! Bjugstad writes on HFBoards!

Huh, really? Where did you see that?

 

[batting1k]

Barkov's Calder chances' worst nightmare: MacKinnon scored both goals yesterday in Colorado's loss to Toronto.

Edit: Looks like I'm late...

 

[Erikfromfin]

Barkov's Calder chances' worst nightmare: MacKinnon scored both goals yesterday in Colorado's loss to Toronto.

Edit: Looks like I'm late...

I had forgotten it was Toronto. Yes thats definetly a big blow
Calder might be slipping because they only look at points but personally i have no worries at all i know Barkov will end up being top10 players in the world if not higher.

 

[batting1k]

I had forgotten it was Toronto. Yes thats definetly a big blow
Calder might be slipping because they only look at points but personally i have no worries at all i know Barkov will end up being top10 players in the world if not higher.

Yeah, they should look at overall play too, Barkov is easily the best.

 

[pb1300]

Yeah, they should look at overall play too, Barkov is easily the best.

Easily the best at what? C'mon, I love Barkov as much as the next Panthers fan here, but if you are saying he is the best between he and Mac, that simply is not true.

 

[batting1k]

Easily the best at what? C'mon, I love Barkov as much as the next Panthers fan here, but if you are saying he is the best between he and Mac, that simply is not true.

I think overall he is better. He may not be scoring goals every night, but he has a better hockey IQ and vision, also plays better defensively. MacKinnon is just a high-speed player with a scoring touch.

 

[pb1300]

I think overall he is better. He may not by scoring goals every night, but he has a better hockey IQ and vision, also plays better defensively. MacKinnon is just a high-speed player with a scoring touch.

What makes his IQ better than Mac's, because Ive seen some people use that excuse, and I bet most cant tell or describe the difference. For years, people have been saying we need a Bure... well, Mac would have been our Bure. He is going to be a 40+ goal 40+ assist scorer in this league, with generational speed, that will still be good in his own zone. Barkov will be around a PPG player, with multiple Selke nominations IMO. Im not knocking Barky at all, because I believe he is going to be a great player in this league, but the difference is obviously there.

 

[batting1k]

What makes his IQ better than Mac's, because Ive seen some people use that excuse, and I bet most cant tell or describe the difference. For years, people have been saying we need a Bure... well, Mac would have been our Bure. He is going to be a 40+ goal 40+ assist scorer in this league, with generational speed, that will still be good in his own zone. Barkov will be around a PPG player, with multiple Selke nominations IMO. Im not knocking Barky at all, because I believe he is going to be a great player in this league, but the difference is obviously there.

Being in the right place, knowing what to do with the puck and where to go with it before he gets it, knowing how to make things happen and generate offense with his playmaking ability, being in the right place defensively, sees the ice really well, doesn't over commit to guys....Just overall smart with the puck.

I'm not knocking MacKinnon either, he's talented no doubt and has the skill that every team, including us, want in a player. I don't think Barkov will have an issue matching MacKinnon. He's more than capable, imo.

 

[IceManCat]

What makes his IQ better than Mac's, because Ive seen some people use that excuse, and I bet most cant tell or describe the difference. For years, people have been saying we need a Bure... well, Mac would have been our Bure. He is going to be a 40+ goal 40+ assist scorer in this league, with generational speed, that will still be good in his own zone. Barkov will be around a PPG player, with multiple Selke nominations IMO. Im not knocking Barky at all, because I believe he is going to be a great player in this league, but the difference is obviously there.

Not an excuse, Barkov is a better positioned player on both sides of the ice. Just like Mackinnon is a much better skater and goal scorer. They are two different players that bring two different skill sets. Both kinds of players are needed a goal scorer and an elite distributor with size and defensive acumen. We have one now we need the other

 

[batting1k]

Not an excuse, Barkov is a better positioned player on both sides of the ice. Just like Mackinnon is a much better skater and goal scorer. They are two different players that bring two different skill sets. Both kinds of players are needed a goal scorer and an elite distributor with size and defensive acumen. We have one now we need the other

Agree, they're both 2 different players who bring equal production at the end of the day.

 

[pb1300]

Being in the right place, knowing what to do with the puck and where to go with it before he gets it, knowing how to make things happen and generate offense with his playmaking ability, being in the right place defensively, sees the ice really well, doesn't over commit to guys....Just overall smart with the puck.

I'm not knocking MacKinnon either, he's talented no doubt and has the skill that every team, including us, want in a player. I don't think Barkov will have an issue matching MacKinnon. He's more than capable, imo.

What you just described can be said about Mac, for the most part. Barkov trumps him defensively, but Mac is no slouch. And I do have a problem seeing Barkov match MacKinnon, at least offensively. In order for Barkov to match him as easily as you make it sound, he is going to have to have the right linemates, because his goal scoring ability is just not on par with MacKinnon's. Their offensive abilities and IQ are similar, but MacKinnon will be able to create more offense on his own than Barkov will. Barkov will be the better two-way player, but I dont think he ever reaches offensive peaks that MacKinnon is capable of.

Not an excuse, Barkov is a better positioned player on both sides of the ice. Just like Mackinnon is a much better skater and goal scorer. They are two different players that bring two different skill sets. Both kinds of players are needed a goal scorer and an elite distributor with size and defensive acumen. We have one now we need the other

Yes, they are two different players, and Mac will probably end up being showcased as the better player because of his offensive abilities, but that doesnt mean Barkov wont be as good as a hockey player. They bring two different sets of skills to the ice, but the difference is, MacKinnon can improve his defense more than Barkov can improve his offense IMO, and that is what will separate the two down the road. I love Barkov, and having he and Bjugstad as our top two centers is a gift, because we are going to be a pain in the butt to play against, but Id still take MacKinnon over him, without hesitation.

 

[batting1k]

What you just described can be said about Mac, for the most part. Barkov trumps him defensively, but Mac is no slouch. And I do have a problem seeing Barkov match MacKinnon, at least offensively. In order for Barkov to match him as easily as you make it sound, he is going to have to have the right linemates, because his goal scoring ability is just not on par with MacKinnon's. Their offensive abilities and IQ are similar, but MacKinnon will be able to create more offense on his own than Barkov will. Barkov will be the better two-way player, but I dont think he ever reaches offensive peaks that MacKinnon is capable of.

Yes, they are two different players, and Mac will probably end up being showcased as the better player because of his offensive abilities, but that doesnt mean Barkov wont be as good as a hockey player. They bring two different sets of skills to the ice, but the difference is, MacKinnon can improve his defense more than Barkov can improve his offense IMO, and that is what will separate the two down the road. I love Barkov, and having he and Bjugstad as our top two centers is a gift, because we are going to be a pain in the butt to play against, but Id still take MacKinnon over him, without hesitation.

There's no doubting that Barkov is pretty good offensively, maybe not as good as MacKinnon, but I think it just has to do with his mentality. Barkov is more of an assist / playmaking guy while I think MacKinnon would likely shoot the puck first which is why he's scored the amount of goals that he has. Barkov has a heavy and fairly accurate shot from what I've seen in highlights from Finland and from watching all of the games this season. He can easily be a 30+ goals, 40+ assists player or a player stat-wise like Datsyuk whereas MacKinnon would be the opposite (40+ goals, 30+ assists). Datsyuk is more of an assist guy (still scores goals though) and has won several Selkes and he's talked about as much as any other top player in the league/world.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Who is the better player depends what you value more, MacK is more flashier no doubt and will probably always be a better scorer.

Barkov is the guy who will be able to shut down players like MacK in the playoffs though. You want him against all the best players like Crosby etc. and like we have seen, even Crosby has been shut down by the best two-way players in the league..

Players like MacK or Bure are more entertaining though, no doubt. You just don't need them as much to win cups IMO. Not even close actually.

 

[EnforceTheLaus]

Agree on the points of Barkov being the 2 way guy and MacK being the more flashy centerman. At the same time Barkov/Bjugstad >>>>>>>> MacK/Bjugstad. That's the biggest draw for me for this team going forward. The two compliment their skillsets perfectly. It's like having a scalpel and a hammer in the toolbox, where on does not work, the other will. That's what will make this offense so tough to play against.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

It's like having a scalpel and a hammer in the toolbox

 

[cats31]

Mackinnon has played with linemates from Duchene, Stastny, Landeskog and Parenteau. If Barkov were to play with any of those guys his stats would look a lot different. But they are 2 totally different players I'd be incredibly happy with either of them.

 

[ProjectPanthers]

I really don't see any chance for Barkov to win the Calder. Mackinnon seems to be the NHL's new golden boy.

Barkov could finish 10 points ahead of Mack at the end of the season and still would finish 5th in voting.

Kopitar didn't win in the Calder either, along with a massive list of players better than the Calder winners, so I really don't care to be honest.

 

[walle]

Mackinnon has played with linemates from Duchene, Stastny, Landeskog and Parenteau. If Barkov were to play with any of those guys his stats would look a lot different. But they are 2 totally different players I'd be incredibly happy with either of them.

From hockeyanalysishttp://stats.hockeyanalysis.com Jan 19 database
5v5
MACKINNON 1.914p/60

Landeskog 239,49m = 8p = 2,00 p/60
Oreilly 213:42 = 4p = 1,12 p/60
Duchene 207:14 5p = 1,45p/60
Mcginn 147:23 7p 2,85p/60
Mitchell 136:35 3p 1,31p/60
Parentau 129:19 7p 3,25p/60
Stasny 85:33 5p 3,50p/60

BARKOV 1.515p/60

Boyes 436m 14p = 1,93p/60
Bergenheim 272:03 8p = 1,76p/60
Flash 161:09 5p 1,86p/60
Upshall 135:26 1p= 135:26 0,44p/60
Huby 90:59 1p= 0,66p/60

Its funny. There's 5 EV point difference between them and 4 on PP yet all these linemates arguments continue. Would Barkov have 20 more points with Colorado linemates? Maybe or he could have even less, who knows, who cares. Still Barkov with Boyes has been producing than Mac on average, so i guess Boyes > COL superstars guys.

And seriously can we stop about this Mackinnon stuff here its not really interesting and considering everyone here seems to be seeing into future already you're just spoiling their future's for guys like me who would just want to see developing realtime. (well for Barkov, i dont give a **** of Mac)

 

[IceManCat]

I hope this doesn't come across as radical. But if Mackinnon would suffer a knee injury for example or just slow down in general as he ages, I feel like he wouldn't be the same player. Just like Gaborik (30 years old), Bure etc..Whereas Barkov since he doesnt rely on physical attributes besides his size can have more longevity over the course of his career. Even Ovechkin who was extremely explosive at the beginning of his career has lost a step in the speed department. The NHL takes it toll on these guys and when speed in your greatest asset and expected to diminish as the years go on, longevity may be an issue to keep in mind.

 

[Hagged]

I hope this doesn't come across as radical. But if Mackinnon would suffer a knee injury for example or just slow down in general as he ages, I feel like he wouldn't be the same player.

Selanne had longevity despite speed being his biggest asset. Though I admit that when he played with one leg he was less than half of the player he was when he had both of them. Now at 43 the speed actually isn't his problem as much as the hands not being as they used to.

But MacKinnon might have an 80 point season in his 40's just as easily as Selanne.

I think it will be harder to find a player of Barkov's size and skill set who has been able to play that long.

 

[Chino Oscar]

I hope this doesn't come across as radical. But if Mackinnon would suffer a knee injury for example or just slow down in general as he ages, I feel like he wouldn't be the same player. Just like Gaborik (30 years old), Bure etc..Whereas Barkov since he doesnt rely on physical attributes besides his size can have more longevity over the course of his career. Even Ovechkin who was extremely explosive at the beginning of his career has lost a step in the speed department. The NHL takes it toll on these guys and when speed in your greatest asset and expected to diminish as the years go on, longevity may be an issue to keep in mind.

Why can't we just accept that Mack is just as good / better than Barkov? We keep digging for ramdon **** hoping something sticks in our argument that Barkov is better...

Mack is clearly an elite talent as well... accept it... watch them grow as players... enjoy.

 

[cats31]

From hockeyanalysishttp://stats.hockeyanalysis.com Jan 19 database
5v5
MACKINNON 1.914p/60

Landeskog 239,49m = 8p = 2,00 p/60
Oreilly 213:42 = 4p = 1,12 p/60
Duchene 207:14 5p = 1,45p/60
Mcginn 147:23 7p 2,85p/60
Mitchell 136:35 3p 1,31p/60
Parentau 129:19 7p 3,25p/60
Stasny 85:33 5p 3,50p/60

BARKOV 1.515p/60

Boyes 436m 14p = 1,93p/60
Bergenheim 272:03 8p = 1,76p/60
Flash 161:09 5p 1,86p/60
Upshall 135:26 1p= 135:26 0,44p/60
Huby 90:59 1p= 0,66p/60

Its funny. There's 5 EV point difference between them and 4 on PP yet all these linemates arguments continue. Would Barkov have 20 more points with Colorado linemates? Maybe or he could have even less, who knows, who cares. Still Barkov with Boyes has been producing than Mac on average, so i guess Boyes > COL superstars guys.

And seriously can we stop about this Mackinnon stuff here its not really interesting and considering everyone here seems to be seeing into future already you're just spoiling their future's for guys like me who would just want to see developing realtime. (well for Barkov, i dont give a **** of Mac)

How do you figure Boyes is better? He has 12 goals in 48 games, Colorado has 4 guys with over 12 goals not including Mackinnon.

 

[batting1k]

Barkov not on the ice for practice today either. This injury doesn't sound "minor", although I still 100% hope it is.

 

[batting1k]

Horachek says Barkov will not travel with the team on their 4 game road trip but could join them in the middle of it