Speculation: Official 2022 Coyotes Off Season Discussion

[moosemeister]

Why is everyone saying Crouse’s name now?

Speculation and Coyotes doomsday fandom. Nothing concrete. No smoke. No fire. Just 26 years of dick kicks. haha

 

[Coyotes19c]

Speculation and Coyotes doomsday fandom. Nothing concrete. No smoke. No fire. Just 26 years of dick kicks. haha

Did Craig say anything about it or was it just that one tweet regarding Winnipeg?

 

[PainForShane]

Re: Crouse, we all like him but I think it's a bit more complicated.

The question is how much will we end up having to pay him, and how does that fit into the cap of a SC contending team. And if we pay him what he's worth (for me that's around 4 - 5.5m long term) then cap wise he'd need to be in the top 6 otherwise the numbers don't work. 4 - 5.5m is far too much for a bottom sixer, even one who does things like hit, kill penalties etc.

So the question is does Crouse actually fit into our top 6?

Keller - Cooley - Schmaltz
Guenther - Geekie - ????

One spot left, lots of potential players like Crouse / Hayton / McBain / Smith / whoever we draft next year (Bedard/Michkov?) or even a player like Maccelli if he can translate his AHL scoring. This is not even considering that Auston Matthews guy that is a debate for another time / thread.

So, BA has a tough decision. Crouse filed for arbitration, so imo he's going to get paid, he's obviously worth the $$. So now BA has to decide whether he thinks Crouse is good enough to not only make our top 6 but also contribute as much as players like for instance, Teuvo / Patches in CAR, Palat in Tampa, Burakovsky / Nik in COL, Giroux in OTT etc etc (f*** that Ottawa top 6 is good).

If not, I think BA has to seriously consider moving him for assets sooner or later. And you can easily make the argument for "sooner" bc the 2023 draft is supposed to be so good. Either way a tough decision for BA especially given the way Crouse plays and how much he means to the team and team culture

 

[RemoAZ]

Crouse and Chychrun are the only holdovers left that I like so obviously they have to go.

 

[moosemeister]

Did Craig say anything about it or was it just that one tweet regarding Winnipeg?

Craig did say both sides haven't spoken since the draft.

The situation just seems eerily familiar to what they did with Garland.

 

[Coyotes19c]

Craig did say both sides haven't spoken since the draft.

The situation just seems eerily familiar to what they did with Garland.

Ok that makes more sense.

 

[rt]

Re: Crouse, we all like him but I think it's a bit more complicated.

The question is how much will we end up having to pay him, and how does that fit into the cap of a SC contending team. And if we pay him what he's worth (for me that's around 4 - 5.5m long term) then cap wise he'd need to be in the top 6 otherwise the numbers don't work. 4 - 5.5m is far too much for a bottom sixer, even one who does things like hit, kill penalties etc.

So the question is does Crouse actually fit into our top 6?

Keller - Cooley - Schmaltz
Guenther - Geekie - ????

One spot left, lots of potential players like Crouse / Hayton / McBain / Smith / whoever we draft next year (Bedard/Michkov?) or even a player like Maccelli if he can translate his AHL scoring. This is not even considering that Auston Matthews guy that is a debate for another time / thread.

So, BA has a tough decision. Crouse filed for arbitration, so imo he's going to get paid, he's obviously worth the $$. So now BA has to decide whether he thinks Crouse is good enough to not only make our top 6 but also contribute as much as players like for instance, Teuvo / Patches in CAR, Palat in Tampa, Burakovsky / Nik in COL, Giroux in OTT etc etc (f*** that Ottawa top 6 is good).

If not, I think BA has to seriously consider moving him for assets sooner or later. And you can easily make the argument for "sooner" bc the 2023 draft is supposed to be so good. Either way a tough decision for BA especially given the way Crouse plays and how much he means to the team and team culture

Guenther played mostly RW and C in the WHL. Not much LW. That’s the Jake Neighbours spot.

Also a bit rich keeping Schmaltz there. I don’t see him as a core piece under BA. Too soft and too streaky.

Crouse-Cooley-Bedard
Keller-Geekie-Guenther

 

[PainForShane]

Guenther played mostly RW and C in the WHL. Not much LW. That’s the Jake Neighbours spot.

Also a bit rich keeping Schmaltz there. I don’t see him as a core piece under BA. Too soft and too streaky.

Sure, I used the winger spots interchangeably. Crouse is a LW anyway.

And actually I don't disagree with you on Schmaltz (esp the soft and streaky part). But, he was about a point a game last year and more importantly we're paying him ~6m through 2026, his offense should improve as the team gets better or at least stay about the same. Schmaltz is not a bottom six-type player.

But if you'd rather trade Schmaltz to make room for Crouse in your top six, I hadn't thought of that but it's certainly one way to do things (WSH did something similar with Tom Wilson). Esp if you can get a return for Nick Schmaltz which you should be able to even in current cap climate. Not the worst idea if you'd rather keep Crouse around (along with everything he brings to the team). Still a tough decision for BA to make regardless of what he decides to do

 

[RABBIT]

It really sucks that we’re probably gonna be without Chychrun and Crouse moving forward. Both are absolute units, captain material and favored amongst fans and in the locker room. I love Bill and his cutthroat mentality when it comes to building a team through the draft but to think we’re really going to have Keller and Schmaltz left after this is pretty unreal. Makes you wonder who is going to be talked about come the trade deadline.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Craig did say both sides haven't spoken since the draft.

The situation just seems eerily familiar to what they did with Garland.

Craig said several times around draft day that Crouse was not available.

Now it’s gone quiet. Sounds more like Chych than Garland in that Crouse may be asking out.

BA could give him a 4 year deal that would expire around the time a bunch of ELCs expire so money shouldn’t be an issue…..the player wanting out is more likely the issue.

 

[SniperHF]

Crouse being available isn't even really new it mostly died down because he got hurt, he was rumored several times last season.

 

[Grimes]

Someone needs to explain that we lost a 2nd!!! and a 3rd because we kept Crouse up the initial season we got him after the trade. If BA knew that type of capital was used this would be done.

But seriously I was so annoyed that we gave up that 2nd. Now all these years later I'm don't mind that Tippet stubbornly did that because I'd like to think that extra year of development is why Crouse is who is is now.

I really was hoping he would be part of the transition from rebuild to playoff contender and maybe beyond. It makes me a little nervous if BA truly decides that nothing is sacred on this team. I can stomach one more of Chychrun/Keller/Crouse being moved, and it seems like Chychrun inevitably is on his way out. Two of those guys moving makes me much more nervous about how the hell this team can possibly turn around when we begin to inject the roster with more and more youth.

 

[rt]

… makes me much more nervous about how the hell this team can possibly turn around when we begin to inject the roster with more and more youth.

I agree. I think they should give Crouse a nice long contract.

 

[Mangosteen]

Interesting read on tan.ca Hewy talks about where good players want to sign:

Are we a winning team?” he said. “How is the city? How are the teammates? How are the coaches? Those are some of the boxes you check to sign with a team. I’ve heard good things about all those things in Calgary.

So both parties have valid points. I know wage is important but I don’t believe it’s the leading factor.

Huberdeau, Weegar open to long-term deals in Calgary - TSN.ca

After going through the emotional rollercoaster of losing star forwards Johnny Gaudreau and Matthew Tkachuk, newly acquired Jonathan Huberdeau and Mackenzie Weegar both said Monday that they are open to continuing their careers in southern Alberta. Salim Valji has more.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Schemp]

Craig said several times around draft day that Crouse was not available.

Now it’s gone quiet. Sounds more like Chych than Garland in that Crouse may be asking out.

BA could give him a 4 year deal that would expire around the time a bunch of ELCs expire so money shouldn’t be an issue…..the player wanting out is more likely the issue.

I seen it a lot in the past. Mostly like poker and bluffing. It was reported that it was about money and they agree about term. So far neither side has agreed to make concessions to the other side at the moment. If anything, BA probably shouldn't have said that Crouse was untouchable and now Crouse wants to see what that means monetarily. Seen a lot of these arbitration cases get done right before their case is heard. If it does go to arbitration, then I can see Crouse getting traded afterwards, but in all likelihood it will be worked out beforehand.

 

[Jakey53]

Josh Bailey and Panik for a 1st

Crouse to someone for a 1st

Chychrun for a package including a 2023 1st.

BA loads up for the 2023 draft. We continue the tank.

Depending on who you deal with but getting a top ten might to be hard to get for next year.

 

[hbk]

I see Kakko signed for 2 years at $2.1M AAV. Based on this i would have to think that Hayton signs shortly for similar term and $.

 

[Jakey53]

Re: Crouse, we all like him but I think it's a bit more complicated.

The question is how much will we end up having to pay him, and how does that fit into the cap of a SC contending team. And if we pay him what he's worth (for me that's around 4 - 5.5m long term) then cap wise he'd need to be in the top 6 otherwise the numbers don't work. 4 - 5.5m is far too much for a bottom sixer, even one who does things like hit, kill penalties etc.

So the question is does Crouse actually fit into our top 6?

Keller - Cooley - Schmaltz
Guenther - Geekie - ????

One spot left, lots of potential players like Crouse / Hayton / McBain / Smith / whoever we draft next year (Bedard/Michkov?) or even a player like Maccelli if he can translate his AHL scoring. This is not even considering that Auston Matthews guy that is a debate for another time / thread.

So, BA has a tough decision. Crouse filed for arbitration, so imo he's going to get paid, he's obviously worth the $$. So now BA has to decide whether he thinks Crouse is good enough to not only make our top 6 but also contribute as much as players like for instance, Teuvo / Patches in CAR, Palat in Tampa, Burakovsky / Nik in COL, Giroux in OTT etc etc (f*** that Ottawa top 6 is good).

If not, I think BA has to seriously consider moving him for assets sooner or later. And you can easily make the argument for "sooner" bc the 2023 draft is supposed to be so good. Either way a tough decision for BA especially given the way Crouse plays and how much he means to the team and team culture

The cap is going up substantially. I think they said as early as next year or the year after. Crouse can play up and down the line up, is big, can skate, is young, a good team mate, and is home grown. He, like Chychrun are the kinds of players you build around. I just don't get why this signing should be a problem. I guess we will find out in a few days.

I seen it a lot in the past. Mostly like poker and bluffing. It was reported that it was about money and they agree about term. So far neither side has agreed to make concessions to the other side at the moment. If anything, BA probably shouldn't have said that Crouse was untouchable and now Crouse wants to see what that means monetarily. Seen a lot of these arbitration cases get done right before their case is heard. If it does go to arbitration, then I can see Crouse getting traded afterwards, but in all likelihood it will be worked out beforehand.

That's what I'm hoping for.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I agree with the assessment (and hope) that this is all posturing and someone will blink first.

 

[Grimes]

Pick:
1. Re-sign Crouse to a 4x5yr contract or something similar (obviously not 3x5yr or 6x2yr, make up something reasonable in your mind)

2. Trade Crouse's RFA right (can't see him doing a sign and trade) for a 1st that is going to be in that 16-32 range (aka a clear favorite to make the playoffs TOR/FLA/CAR). That 1st is top 10 protected as well.

Use the new roster space to take on a dump like Bailey for more draft capital/prospects. The bigger the dump the better the return.

Essentially keep Crouse to a "fair" contract that would keep him here for years or recoup two late 1sts in value.

I know I was complaining about this Crouse situation last night but if this is the plan I could turn my opinion around. Maybe BA is waiting for that dump to come in before moving Crouse (aka NYI would trade a 1st for Crouse but would also trade a 1st for taking on Bailey so BA is waiting for some dominos to fall).

 

[rt]

Bailey is owed $7m in real cash over the 2yrs and he’s actually a decent player.

Last summer the Isles sent 2x 2nds with the corpse of Andrew Ladd ($8mil over 2yrs).

This summer we got Nemeth who is owed $6m in real cash over the next 2yrs and is kind of a train wreck. If Nemeth gets two 2x 2nds, and Ladd is worth 2x 2nds I think Bailey might be more like just one 2nd?

Does that seem right? Bailey for 1 2nd?

I do believe I would rather have Crouse than Bailey and a pick in the 20s and a pick in the 50s.

 

[rt]

Then again, I think a single 1st for Crouse is a bit light. Hagel is younger and cheaper. So two prospects and two firsts that he got might not be a reasonable ask for Crouse. But Crouse is better and also young. At the very least it should be a 1st and a 2nd.

And if Lou really has Kadri on hold, maybe we can squeeze a 3rd out of him to go with the 2nd.

Bailey, a 1st, two 2nds, and a 3rd or Crouse? That’s suddenly kinda tough.

 

[rt]

Wonder if we could combine those and do Wahlstrom, Bailey, and the ‘23 NYI 1st for Crouse. Wahlstrom is 3yrs younger but is an RFA and likely to get Kakko money. Not sure if that saves the Isles enough cap for Kadri or not. But adding Kadri, Crouse and Romanov in one off season certainly makes a statement about getting better and harder to play against.

 

[Grimes]

Wonder if we could combine those and do Wahlstrom, Bailey, and the ‘23 NYI 1st for Crouse. Wahlstrom is 3yrs younger but is an RFA and likely to get Kakko money. Not sure if that saves the Isles enough cap for Kadri or not. But adding Kadri, Crouse and Romanov in one off season certainly makes a statement about getting better and harder to play against.

Interesting idea. Not sure where I sit with Wahlstrom but would be interested to see what AT could do with him and he has a skillet not many of our forward prospects have.

If you ask a NYI fan they seem to hype the hell out of the kid. If you watch him play you see why he gets benched and sheltered minutes. But he is young (2018 draft right?) and if he can put it all together could be very valuable instead of just a nifty winger with a good shot.

Kind of has two roads in front of him. Is he more like Vatrano or is he more like Bjorkstrad?

 

[rt]

Interesting idea. Not sure where I sit with Wahlstrom but would be interested to see what AT could do with him and he has a skillet not many of our forward prospects have.

If you ask a NYI fan they seem to hype the hell out of the kid. If you watch him play you see why he gets benched and sheltered minutes. But he is young (2018 draft right?) and if he can put it all together could be very valuable instead of just a nifty winger with a good shot.

Kind of has two roads in front of him. Is he more like Vatrano or is he more like Bjorkstrad?

I’ve comments that conditioning and off ice commitment have been issues. I’ve also see pictures this summer of him being completely jacked. So either that narrative was false or he’s really doubled down on his career in the off-season.