Prospect Info: [Official] 2016 Draft Thread V.3

[DFF]

I'll be really mad if it's not one of Dubois, Tkachuk, Nylander or Brown

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Read an interview on sportsnet app. Sounds like Benning is still considering a D at 5.

 

[BigRangy]

I'll be disappointed if it's not Puljujarvi, Dubois, Nylander, Keller, or Sergachev. If they trade back, the return has to be fair and they still need to avoid brown and tkachuk.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I was talking to my bro-inlaw today when I was there for brunch about Keller, he had never heard of him. He loves Marner, I told him Keller is pretty much the same player and as good as him, he's like have you seen Marner play?

I then proceed to Chromecast some YouTube clips of Keller and told him Button has him ranked as the 6th best prospect. He was literally wowed watching him play lol. He's thought his passes and vision were incredible, his acceleration was impressive and his quick release is excellent. He's like, I hope the Flames know about this kid and they should take him. I responded, don't worry they know exactly who he is.

Just goes to show because he's an American and the league he played in, how little hype he's gotten. Keller is a phenomenal talent, any team getting him will be getting a great player.

 

[Volica]

If they can't move up to 3; I'm fine to move down and get extra assets and Keller.

 

[moon*]

The fact he is American and the league he plays in boosts Keller because he is "mysterious."

People ignore the flaws in his game and fact he has shown nothing to indicate he should be in the top 10 because they so rarely see him and are basing it off you tube clips.

The worst thing you can do for your draft stock among fans is to play in the CHL where fans spend all the time poking in holes in your game and dreaming of supposed skil European and American guys making a few flashy plays on you tube but overall being much worse players.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I saw all the top prospects 4 or 5 times at least. Except Keller. Only at the 2 u 18 games. Didn't really get a read on him though. I was more just in awe of Logan Brown destroying Canada. If we pick Keller, he's gotta be a Domi level talent, which is appropriate because Treliving was with Arizona when they picked him. He's only 5'9 so if we pick him he must be scary good.

I still think it will be Brown or Sergachyev if the 5 forwards are off the board. Both are highly skilled yet bring a physically imposing element we really lack.

 

[BigRangy]

The fact he is American and the league he plays in boosts Keller because he is "mysterious."

People ignore the flaws in his game and fact he has shown nothing to indicate he should be in the top 10 because they so rarely see him and are basing it off you tube clips.

The worst thing you can do for your draft stock among fans is to play in the CHL where fans spend all the time poking in holes in your game and dreaming of supposed skil European and American guys making a few flashy plays on you tube but overall being much worse players.

Lol you gotta be kidding me. The amount of raw point production from this guy is #1 pick numbers in a soft year. He leads his team everywhere he plays, and by all accounts seems to have enough hockey IQ and skating ability to translate his game despite his size.

You may not like him at 6 but to suggest he hasn't done anything worthy of a top 10 pick is absurd.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

The fact he is American and the league he plays in boosts Keller because he is "mysterious."

People ignore the flaws in his game and fact he has shown nothing to indicate he should be in the top 10 because they so rarely see him and are basing it off you tube clips.

The worst thing you can do for your draft stock among fans is to play in the CHL where fans spend all the time poking in holes in your game and dreaming of supposed skil European and American guys making a few flashy plays on you tube but overall being much worse players.

It's great when people twist your words, when did I say I've only seen YouTube clips of him? I've seen him play live 3-4 times, read extensive scouting reports on him of people who have seen him play lots, and yes I've watched highlights.

His skill is jaw dropping. It's clear you have a negative bias towards him, but I don't know what these flaws are that you speak of besides him not being big in stature, but he's not small. To be quite frank, he's a better and more complete player than Gaudreau was at the same age.

 

[moon*]

It's great when people twist your words, when did I say I've only seen YouTube clips of him? I've seen him play live 3-4 times, read extensive scouting reports on him of people who have seen him play lots, and yes I've watched highlights.

His skill is jaw dropping. It's clear you have a negative bias towards him, but I don't know what these flaws are that you speak of besides him not being big in stature, but he's not small. To be quite frank, he's a better and more complete player than Gaudreau was at the same age.

I don't think I ever said anything about you in particular I was speaking in generalities.

That's why I said "people" and "fans" not you and Hoxville.

 

[InfinityIggy]

The fact he is American and the league he plays in boosts Keller because he is "mysterious."

People ignore the flaws in his game and fact he has shown nothing to indicate he should be in the top 10 because they so rarely see him and are basing it off you tube clips.

The worst thing you can do for your draft stock among fans is to play in the CHL where fans spend all the time poking in holes in your game and dreaming of supposed skil European and American guys making a few flashy plays on you tube but overall being much worse players.

What a bunch of nonsense. At no point did you ever approach anything regarding a salient point about the player.

What are you basing your assement of this player on? Seems like thin air based on your post.

 

[moon*]

What a bunch of nonsense. At no point did you ever approach anything regarding a salient point about the player.

What are you basing your assement of this player on? Seems like thin air based on your post.

I base it on scouting reports, videos of him and a history of scouting/rankings (especially recently).

For the most part reputable scouting lists get it right and fans get it wrong. The biggest discrepancies that I see between fans and scouting lists are from fans overvaluing supposedly "skilled" 1. Europeans 2. Americans 3. Small guys.

For the most part Keller is on average ranked right around 10 by reputable souting lists. They don't have him there because they are biased against small players, he isn't there because they hate skill. He is there because what he has shown after many years of watching shows that he is at best the 10th overall guy in the draft. They, unlike fans, rarely get wowed by You Tube and go much more off what a guy is likely to do rather than the .00001% chance that he might do.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I base it on scouting reports, videos of him and a history of scouting/rankings (especially recently).

For the most part reputable scouting lists get it right and fans get it wrong. The biggest discrepancies that I see between fans and scouting lists are from fans overvaluing supposedly "skilled" 1. Europeans 2. Americans 3. Small guys.

For the most part Keller is on average ranked right around 10 by reputable souting lists. They don't have him there because they are biased against small players, he isn't there because they hate skill. He is there because what he has shown after many years of watching shows that he is at best the 10th overall guy in the draft. They, unlike fans, rarely get wowed by You Tube and go much more off what a guy is likely to do rather than the .00001% chance that he might do.

Yet there are other reputable scouts that have him at 4, 5 & 6. Yet these "flaws" that you talk about but cannot explain are your basis for him going later. What I think is that you know nothing about the player and because you have an ignorance towards him becsuee you lack knowledge, you have him ranked him lower. Pretty much every single scouting report out there says his skill is among the best in the draft. For forwards, it's pretty much fact at this point that he's among the top 8 and I personally think he's top 5 and better than Tkachuk. So if the Flames are picking a forward, it's very plausible to suggest he's a Flame come Friday.

 

[moon*]

Yet there are other reputable scouts that have him at 4, 5 & 6. Yet these "flaws" that you talk about but cannot explain are your basis for him going later. What I think is that you know nothing about the player and because you have an ignorance towards him becsuee you lack knowledge, you have him ranked him lower. Pretty much every single scouting report out there says his skill is among the best in the draft. For forwards, it's pretty much fact at this point that he's among the top 8 and I personally think he's top 5 and better than Tkachuk. So if the Flames are picking a forward, it's very plausible to suggest he's a Flame come Friday.

What flaws have I talked about that I can't explain?

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

What flaws have I talked about that I can't explain?

People ignore the flaws in his game and fact he has shown nothing to indicate he should be in the top 10 because they so rarely see him and are basing it off you tube clips.

For your short memory.

 

[moon*]

For your short memory.

Oh that's what you meant.

It wasn that I can't explain them, I just didn't explain them.

First is obviously his size. Yes Flames fan love to point to Gaudreau as proof that anyone can succeed in the NHL but the fact is that Gaudreau is the exception and there are many more supposedly talented small guys that fail rather than succeed.

Second, is beyond just the size I see a lot of plays that work against weak (in terms of ability not strength), young defensemen in a weak league that will be totally ineffective against talented players in the NHL.

Third, I see this supposed skill just isn't that impressive to me. The flash is ok but overall there isn't much there when I have seen him play.

 

[Calgareee]

Oh that's what you meant.

It wasn that I can't explain them, I just didn't explain them.

First is obviously his size. Yes Flames fan love to point to Gaudreau as proof that anyone can succeed in the NHL but the fact is that Gaudreau is the exception and there are many more supposedly talented small guys that fail rather than succeed.

Second, is beyond just the size I see a lot of plays that work against weak (in terms of ability not strength), young defensemen in a weak league that will be totally ineffective against talented players in the NHL.

Third, I see this supposed skill just isn't that impressive to me. The flash is ok but overall there isn't much there when I have seen him play.

So why do all of the consensus ratings have him in the ~top12 if he is so unimpressive? So now your evaluation means more then those scouts? Gaudreau is far from the only exception. There a are a lot more guys in the NHL right now that would be considered "small" and the league is definitely shifting to be more about speed and skill.

 

[moon*]

So why do all of the consensus ratings have him in the ~top12 if he is so unimpressive? So now your evaluation means more then those scouts? Gaudreau is far from the only exception. There a are a lot more guys in the NHL right now that would be considered "small" and the league is definitely shifting to be more about speed and skill.

I raised questions about him I am not sure where "so unimpressive" comes from.

Also, once you get to even the 10th ranked guy in most drafts every guy has questions about them. It isn't like I am saying Keller has questions and everyone else is awesome.

For the Flames I think the 6th pick is very important going forward and I would much rather for a guy that has a much higher floor than what Keller offers, especially since for me I don't see his ceiling as high as others do.

And since I have based my evaluation on scouting reports for the most part where are you getting the idea that my evaluation means more than scouts?

 

[Anglesmith]

Argh, just realized I won't be able to properly take in the draft this year. Anyone know what time the first pick will be? Probably 6 MT, I imagine.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Oh that's what you meant.

It wasn that I can't explain them, I just didn't explain them.

First is obviously his size. Yes Flames fan love to point to Gaudreau as proof that anyone can succeed in the NHL but the fact is that Gaudreau is the exception and there are many more supposedly talented small guys that fail rather than succeed.

Second, is beyond just the size I see a lot of plays that work against weak (in terms of ability not strength), young defensemen in a weak league that will be totally ineffective against talented players in the NHL.

Third, I see this supposed skill just isn't that impressive to me. The flash is ok but overall there isn't much there when I have seen him play.

Gaudreau was 5'6 and like 138lbs when he was drafted. Keller is 5'9 and 164lbs. Giroux was 5'9 and 167lbs, it's not a concern. Keller has a great body for the NHL IMO. His game is built for speed, and because he's slightly less in stature he can play that speed game and there's less of him to hit. Giroux has no problems playing at that size, and I see Keller a lot in the same light.

Look Keller obviously needs to add muscle, every player does that's being drafted. If he were 3 inches taller, he would be at the league average. Using 3 inches as a negative primary argument against a player is just poor attempt on your part.

Keller is probably the 2nd or 3rd best passer in the draft. His vision and IQ are outstanding. He can find guys that his back is to and put the puck on their tape. Today's game is SO fast, and Keller plays it that way. I think speed is more important than size in the NHL and that's why I love Keller. His skill is profound along with his IQ.

And show me a scouting report that doesn't back that up, I'd love to see it.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

McKenzies rankings come out. Keller is the name I'm most interested to see where he goes.

 

[Volica]

McKenzies rankings come out. Keller is the name I'm most interested to see where he goes.

8. That's impressive.
On another note, Juolevi at 6; interesting how much of a jump he's made. That memorial cup likely helped him out.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Nylander, Brown or Keller if we don't trade up and I'm happy.

 

[moon*]

I am not really a fan of any of those guys listed 6-10.

Missing out on the top 5 really sucks.

Hopefully Edmonton or Vancouver really love Juolevi or Treliving can make a deal to move up in the draft.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Well I've been consistently pumping that we either take Nylander or Keller, they are 7 & 8th respectively. It's laughable to talk about that Keller isn't a top 10 talent, that's almost like saying Gaudreau isn't a franchise winger.

The Flames need skill, the Flames need offence, and the Flames need speed. Yes they need size, but if you factor in Gaudreau, there's 10 other forward spots that you can address that with. Game breaking elite offensive skills are a premium in the NHL and Bobs final list shows the consensus of GM's in the NHL agree that both Nylander and Keller are in the next group behind the big 5.

The statement regarding the scouting reports on Keller was false, since it's clear that statement was now made up. But I guess I'm the one who's only watching YouTube highlights.