Prospect Info: [Official]: 2016 Draft Thread v.2

[FLAMES666]

Connor and Larkin are great examples.

And neither are remotely close to the same type of player as Keller.

If you don't think drafting a potential Marner/ Gaudreau level of player is filling an organizational need, well I really don't have anything else to say to you. So many players coming out the US program in recent years have been hugely underrated and by all indications Keller looks to be among as good as any of them.

A potential Marner/Gaudreau? So which is it? The guy who has proved himself or the one who has done zilch at the NHL level? By all indications could be complete non NHL player as well. He is another small talented winger that Calgary doesn't need and years away from even potentially making the NHL. Drafting him at 6 would be horrible especially when he probably doesn't even go top 10.

Top 6 Forward talent is absolutely an organizational need.

Yes it is, one with size that Treliving has mentioned countless times.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I never once said Keller plays like Larkin or Connor, did I? I was using them as examples of recent players that have come up in the U.S. program and done exceptionally well.

First of all, Keller isn't a winger, he's center. It's been speculated that he could likely be converted to the wing full time in the NHL or maybe he stays there.

Lastly it's both. Keller plays like both Gaudreau and Marner. He has the potential to be a Gaudreau level of player and he's a Marner caliber propsect. Just because you don't know anything about him doesn't make him a horrible pick.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

And neither are remotely close to the same type of player as Keller.
.

I think you misunderstand. When I made those player references it was to the fact that each draft lately there is a player coming out of the US development program who ends up being an amazing prospect that doesn't go as high in the draft as they probably should, like Connor (whom I had in my top 8 last year) and Larkin the year before that.

It was never a player style reference.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

He could become a Marner/Gaudreau type player. But he's consistently ranked 10-15. His numbers are good but they aren't eye-popping. Last year people were telling me Jeremy Bracco would be better than Gaudreau, got drafted in the third round and was nothing special in the CHL, already looks like a bust.

If Keller had Gaudreaus or Marners skill level he would be a top five pick, and ranked accordingly.

Saying Keller is Gaudreau is like saying Brown is Thornton, Juolevi is Brodie or Chychrun is Weber. Yeah they may have similarities in style but they have a LONG way to go to be those caliber of players.

Look at last year, everyone on our board (except me for one) wanted Merkley, Merkley sucks. Small skilled guys are better junior players, come pro and they fade into oblivion. Don't know how Keller is going to help us beat St. Louis, Anaheim or Los Angeles.

 

[Sparky93]

I haven't seen much of Keller, but from what I've saw, he looks like he's ranked about right, mid 1st round. I just don't see the elite skill some people are talking about. Limited viewings, but not close to Gaudreau, let alone Kane.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

I think Gauthier is a fine pick in the 20-30 range. His package alone is intriguing.

I really hope we move up into the late part of the 1st, when our later 2nd's roll around, there might not be a lot of top end players left.

I'd be fine moving into the late first if someone notable is dropping. I'd be quite unhappy if we moved up in order to take Gauthier, I just don't see anything besides his size that is intriguing to me.

 

[L13]

He could become a Marner/Gaudreau type player. But he's consistently ranked 10-15. His numbers are good but they aren't eye-popping. Last year people were telling me Jeremy Bracco would be better than Gaudreau, got drafted in the third round and was nothing special in the CHL, already looks like a bust.

If Keller had Gaudreaus or Marners skill level he would be a top five pick, and ranked accordingly.

Saying Keller is Gaudreau is like saying Brown is Thornton, Juolevi is Brodie or Chychrun is Weber. Yeah they may have similarities in style but they have a LONG way to go to be those caliber of players.

Look at last year, everyone on our board (except me for one) wanted Merkley, Merkley sucks. Small skilled guys are better junior players, come pro and they fade into oblivion. Don't know how Keller is going to help us beat St. Louis, Anaheim or Los Angeles.

I too laugh at the comparisons to Gaudreau that people draw so easily whenever they find a sub-6-foot winger they like, like being on the short side and having some skill is all you need to reach Gaudreau's level as a player, BUT. Bracco is doing fine in the CHL. To say he looks like a bust is a massive exaggeration.

 

[tyflames]

Nylanders shot is something else.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Keller is 5'10, he could grow another inch or more. Basically if he stays at center, there's a couple guys named Crosby and Giroux that do okay and are also 5'10, his size is a non factor to me.

Literally every scouting report you read states Keller is among the top skilled players in this draft. I'd say his skill is right there with the top 3 and Nylander is a notch above Dubois and Tkachuk.

Ive brought up past U.S. players because unless your someone like a Tkachuk, who's a big power forward and has a last name that's well known in the hockey, the Larkin's and Connors of the world has been drafted much later than the should have been. And Keller did not just have an okay season, he had a monstrous one, and he's looking to like the next U.S. player that far to many teams passed on. I think he's every bit as good as Marner was in his draft year. Whoever gets this kid is getting a potential topline player.

I almost hope we take him just for the salt it would cause.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Yes it is, one with size that Treliving has mentioned countless times.

Treliving was also this --><-- close to signing Artemi Panarin before Panarin chose the Blackhawks so...

 

[Sparky93]

I don't see us reaching with 6th. Nylander has organizational ties, has decent size, great shot, creates time/space and would compliment Bennett nicely. Chychrun looks like a lock as a top 4, all round defender. I'd bet we end up with one of them.

My guess is they consider Keller a step down. I think I remember reading that management considers there to be a drop off after 7?
Probably have it like this-
4/5- Tkachuk/Dubois
6/7- Nylander/Chychrun
8-maybe Keller, that's not even a given

I think if they want a guy like Keller, we'd be better off to draft Nylander and just trade with Philly for Jordan Weal.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Sparky, how does anyone know what their top 6 looks like. Pronman had Keller at 4.

For all we know it's:

Mathews
Laine
Pulju

Dubois
Tkachuk
Keller

Chychrun/Nylander

 

[FLAMES666]

I never once said Keller plays like Larkin or Connor, did I? I was using them as examples of recent players that have come up in the U.S. program and done exceptionally well.

I know you didn't, that wasn't a quote from you I was responding to.

 

[FLAMES666]

I think you misunderstand. When I made those player references it was to the fact that each draft lately there is a player coming out of the US development program who ends up being an amazing prospect that doesn't go as high in the draft as they probably should, like Connor (whom I had in my top 8 last year) and Larkin the year before that.

It was never a player style reference.

Thats great, I agree, but I am arguing the fact Keller is not someone the Flames should be drafting at 6th overall.

 

[Sparky93]

Sparky, how does anyone know what their top 6 looks like. Pronman had Keller at 4.

For all we know it's:

Mathews
Laine
Pulju

Dubois
Tkachuk
Keller

Chychrun/Nylander

You don't but ISS has Nylander at 4 and nobody else has Keller ranked nearly as high. Purely speculation based on comman perception

 

[FLAMES666]

You don't but ISS has Nylander at 4 and nobody else has Keller ranked nearly as high. Purely speculation based on comman perception

But someone who writes for ESPN has him ranked at 4, possibly the worst company to cover hockey.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

You don't but ISS has Nylander at 4 and nobody else has Keller ranked nearly as high. Purely speculation based on comman perception

Those same rankings also had Connor and Larkin ranked low in their years, which is what I'm saying about Keller. Everyone on here takes those as bible, then every year we see teams "reach" on some players. Teams have their own rankings, they don't care about other rankings.

Pronman like him or not, has been right on some of his reaches in the past and wrong on others. He was right on William Nylander, he's very high on Keller and from everything I've seen and read from other sources, backs that up.

 

[Rangediddy]

All my vcash says we draft Nylander. The guy just has a nose for putting the puck in the net. He has good size and once he adds some muscle he'll be about the same size as Kuznetsov, Palat and Bryan Little.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Keller is 5'10, he could grow another inch or more. Basically if he stays at center, there's a couple guys named Crosby and Giroux that do okay and are also 5'10, his size is a non factor to me.

Literally every scouting report you read states Keller is among the top skilled players in this draft. I'd say his skill is right there with the top 3 and Nylander is a notch above Dubois and Tkachuk.

Ive brought up past U.S. players because unless your someone like a Tkachuk, who's a big power forward and has a last name that's well known in the hockey, the Larkin's and Connors of the world has been drafted much later than the should have been. And Keller did not just have an okay season, he had a monstrous one, and he's looking to like the next U.S. player that far to many teams passed on. I think he's every bit as good as Marner was in his draft year. Whoever gets this kid is getting a potential topline player.

I almost hope we take him just for the salt it would cause.

He could grow an inch. Or he could just stay the same height he's been the last year. He's nowhere near as strong as Crosby or Giroux. As others have said his highlight package looks okay but he looks nowhere near Gaudreau in elusiveness, nowhere near Kane or Giroux in terms of pure skill.

Yes, he's very skilled but yes, he's tiny. This is a team looking to ideally add players who are fast, big, skilled and high character. At #6 in a draft with a good top end there are players who have all 4 of those attributes. Keller is not one of those players.

I think there's zero chance we take Keller at #6. He'd be a good pick in the teens. We're drafting top 6. There are much more appealing players available. We can get a complete package type player. And with tiny Gaudreau on the team the last thing we need to be prioritizing is another tiny player who we would then play out of position on the wing? Like it makes no sense at all. Just a complete non starter.

 

[Sparky93]

Those same rankings also had Connor and Larkin ranked low in their years, which is what I'm saying about Keller. Everyone on here takes those as bible, then every year we see teams "reach" on some players. Teams have their own rankings, they don't care about other rankings.

Pronman like him or not, has been right on some of his reaches in the past and wrong on others. He was right on William Nylander, he's very high on Keller and from everything I've seen and read from other sources, backs that up.

It's still very early to even say Larkin should have been taken earlier. Not even 2 years post draft, there's always a couple guys that don't pan out. I'm not saying Keller is crap, I'm saying Nylander is a better total package and fills a need. So why would we pick Keller over him? I honestly haven't watched Keller, at all, except high light reels, but I'm not impressed. Nylander, on the other hand, seperates himself like an NHLer already and has a better shot. So why would you want to gamble on Keller?

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

So I'm clear, I have Nylander slightly ahead of Keller, but not by a lot. Gaudreau also fell to the 4th round for being undersized and tiny. And Keller actually does have excellent skating ability and edge work, I'm not sure where you're getting that he doesn't? Keller has lots of room to add muscle and he will, saying a teenager is nowhere near as strong as Crosby/Giroux is funny, did you see Claude in his draft year?

Anyways, this is all fun to me to debate. Snipes wants Brown, I want Keller or Nylander (over Tkachuk), but will be happy with anyone including Chychrun. I don't know why anyone is knocking Keller's highlight package, it's very impressive as he is.

 

[Sparky93]

He could grow an inch. Or he could just stay the same height he's been the last year. He's nowhere near as strong as Crosby or Giroux. As others have said his highlight package looks okay but he looks nowhere near Gaudreau in elusiveness, nowhere near Kane or Giroux in terms of pure skill.

Yes, he's very skilled but yes, he's tiny. This is a team looking to ideally add players who are fast, big, skilled and high character. At #6 in a draft with a good top end there are players who have all 4 of those attributes. Keller is not one of those players.

I think there's zero chance we take Keller at #6. He'd be a good pick in the teens. We're drafting top 6. There are much more appealing players available. We can get a complete package type player. And with tiny Gaudreau on the team the last thing we need to be prioritizing is another tiny player who we would then play out of position on the wing? Like it makes no sense at all. Just a complete non starter.

I'm not against taking Keller because he's small, I'm against taking him because he doesn't look as good as Nylander. If DeBrincat is available at 35, I'd be choked if we pass on him and he's even smaller.

 

[Sparky93]

So I'm clear, I have Nylander slightly ahead of Keller, but not by a lot. Gaudreau also fell to the 4th round for being undersized and tiny. And Keller actually does have excellent skating ability and edge work, I'm not sure where you're getting that he doesn't? Keller has lots of room to add muscle and he will, saying a teenager is nowhere near as strong as Crosby/Giroux is funny, did you see Claude in his draft year?

Anyways, this is all fun to me to debate. Snipes wants Brown, I want Keller or Nylander (over Tkachuk), but will be happy with anyone including Chychrun. I don't know why anyone is knocking Keller's highlight package, it's very impressive as he is.

I'd take Tkachuk at #4, any time! I have a funny feeling we're gonna take Chychrun. I'll be disappointed, but he'll still be a stud.
The more I learn about Nylander, the more I want him!

If Keller is as good as you say he is, he should ask for his money back from who ever made his high light reel.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Nylander has a little Kovalev in him, I love how he dangles guys and that shot of his is so sexy. I'll be thrilled if we get him.

I'm just so high on Keller, he's a little more of a puck hound. He skates exceptionally well, his hockey sense is off the the charts and he has a great release (though not Nylander good).

 

[Sparky93]

Nylander has a little Kovalev in him, I love how he dangles guys and that shot of his is so sexy. I'll be thrilled if we get him.

I'm just so high on Keller, he's a little more of a puck hound. He skates exceptionally well, his hockey sense is off the the charts and he has a great release (though not Nylander good).

See, I thought his shot was one of his weakest points. Nylanders starts and stops, the way he fades away, amazing. Bennett is a puck hound, Nylander would be great with him or on the 1st PP unit