OT: Official 2013 Patriots/NFL Thread-Part X

[Artemis]

Great line in EEI, quoting a tweet: "I'm a great lawyer, except when I appear in court."

 

[EverettMike]

Body contact is fine for a throw that short. People make throws with contact to their body all the time. And that was a short throw to a running back. The hit to the arm is the contact I'm referring to and that was clearly last second.

It's not different from his first TD of the season. Was that a dumb throw or a risk not worth taking? Because if that Ravens player got his arm in on Manning's elbow, that could have been a pick too.

Maybe it is me, but I feel like you are talking in circles here. I don't know, can someone else chime in?

 

[Pie O My]

a lot of talk about where last night falls in terms of SB blowouts. I say it's behind SB 20 and SB 35. Bears and Ravens absolutely had their way and they were laughers loooong before the final whistle. I was too drunk to really remember the Broncos going down 55-10 to the niners.

 

[11MilesPerJohan]

That was one play. 2 points. The rest of the game was mostly determined by Seattle's play.

That's debatable.

Without looking at a game log, there was the horrid coverage on the second half kickoff.

No adjustments made by the coaching staff.

Horrible tackling in Denver's secondary.

Soft coverage by Denver that gave the Seattle receivers way too much time and space.

The offensive line getting beat time and time again.

Denver's receivers not winning one on one battles, which they did all year.

Manning not making though throws that he HAD to make to be successful against Seattle.

The list goes on.


It's not just about what Seattle did. On the other side of the coin is someone from Denver not doing their job correctly. This wasn't a 7 point game, this was a blowout. In a blowout, you usually have one team playing great football and the other not so much. They didn't play to their ability due both to Seattle's execution and the lack of their own.

It's okay to admit that they choked...trust me, we know quite a lot about what that looks like around here

 

[Therick67]

That was one play. 2 points. The rest of the game was mostly determined by Seattle's play.

Well it certainly set the tempo for the rest of the game. Denver looked bad right from opening kickoff. Denver made plenty of unforced errors. Seattle took advantage of every mistake and made plays. Not sure how that takes away from the win.

It's possible for two teams to play well in the same game. Denver didn't right from the start, Seattle did.

 

[Therick67]

Maybe it is me, but I feel like you are talking in circles here. I don't know, can someone else chime in?

I feel the same way and I'm trying

 

[Therick67]

How about that idiotic 2nd half kickoff? If you want to keep it away from Harvin, kick it out of the end zone.

 

[11MilesPerJohan]

How about that idiotic 2nd half kickoff? If you want to keep it away from Harvin, kick it out of the end zone.

Or just, oh I don't know, don't leave a gaping hole in the middle of the field for the guy to run through. But whatever floats your boat.

 

[Therick67]

Or just, oh I don't know, don't leave a gaping hole in the middle of the field for the guy to run through. But whatever floats your boat.

How about Joe Buck calling it a great kick, right before it blew up in Denver's face

 

[Fossy21]

Denver didn't play well. But the only story is Seattle. Unless anyone was trying to say Manning is the greatest of all time. I never thought he was, and clearly after yesterday he's not the GOAT, but still not a choker.

The only story is _not_ Seattle. They faced what was touted as one of the two best teams in the league, with a QB that would cement his legacy as the GOAT, a team that was favourites by 2 or 3 points. They lost by 35 points. They got nowhere near their capacity.

They made mistakes in all areas. QB threw two interceptions, Receiver (Thomas) fumbled on one of the... two good plays they made all game, bad snap = safety, bad coverage and tackling on the two TD passes where they were basically three on one and failed to contain them (making the plays look even greater than they were), letting Lynch run the ball in twice (officials thought he was down the first time, I don't) when they needed a statement stop, O-line didn't give Peyton the 6-7 seconds he's used to, RB's got nowhere, special teams allowed a kickoff return TD and almost fumbled one of their own, there's even an undisciplinary penalty after Thomas's fumble. You can't tell me none of that has choke written over it. They got nowhere near how well they should've played at worst. Seattle played a great game, but Denver made it easy for them.

I'm not taking away **** all from Seattle, I can say that a team played worse than they ought to, crumbling under pressure = choked, and still appreciate that their opponents played a great game.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

The only story is _not_ Seattle. They faced what was touted as one of the two best teams in the league, with a QB that would cement his legacy as the GOAT, a team that was favourites by 2 or 3 points. They lost by 35 points. They got nowhere near their capacity.

They made mistakes in all areas. QB threw two interceptions, Receiver (Thomas) fumbled on one of the... two good plays they made all game, bad snap = safety, bad coverage and tackling on the two TD passes where they were basically three on one and failed to contain them (making the plays look even greater than they were), letting Lynch run the ball in twice (officials thought he was down the first time, I don't) when they needed a statement stop, O-line didn't give Peyton the 6-7 seconds he's used to, RB's got nowhere, special teams allowed a kickoff return TD and almost fumbled one of their own, there's even an undisciplinary penalty after Thomas's fumble. You can't tell me none of that has choke written over it. They got nowhere near how well they should've played at worst. Seattle played a great game, but Denver made it easy for them.

I'm not taking away **** all from Seattle, I can say that a team played worse than they ought to, crumbling under pressure = choked, and still appreciate that their opponents played a great game.

OK, this will be my last post in this thread today. I'm definitely repeating myself too much.

But you can't say "I'm not taking away **** from Seattle, [but Denver choked]". Saying Denver choked does detract from what Seattle did. Beating up on a team that's choking is less of an accomplishment than beating up on a team that's not choking.

My whole point is that Seattle played a nearly flawless game, especially on defense. Sure, you can pick out things that Denver did where it's hard to give a ton of credit to Seattle (like the safety), but I'm saying those don't really matter and there aren't as many as them as you think. People keep coming up with general terms for things the Broncos could have done better like "make adjustments". Uh, they did make adjustments. They moved guys around. Started putting all 3 receivers on the left to avoid Sherman. Went to Thomas underneath and over the middle more. Nothing really worked though. Could Denver have gotten 17 points? Maybe. But that would have taken a better than average performance from them. I mean, Peyton threw a pick 6 on what I think is an easier throw than his first TD of the season. You can blame Peyton for it if you want. But to me, the difference between his first TD and last night's pick 6 was the defense, not what Manning did.

And it doesn't matter anyways. Because a couple extra field goals or a punt instead of a pick wouldn't really make a difference in the end.

I really think that with the way Seattle played, there was NOTHING Denver could have done to win. Or New England had we beaten Denver. Or Indy in a rematch from a game that Indy won earlier. Or the 49ers of the 80's.

Seattle was going to win the game. And if there was nothing Denver could have done about it, it's not a choke job that they lost.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

OK, this will be my last post in this thread today. I'm definitely repeating myself too much.

But you can't say "I'm not taking away **** from Seattle, [but Denver choked]". Saying Denver choked does detract from what Seattle did. Beating up on a team that's choking is less of an accomplishment than beating up on a team that's not choking.

My whole point is that Seattle played a nearly flawless game, especially on defense. Sure, you can pick out things that Denver did where it's hard to give a ton of credit to Seattle (like the safety), but I'm saying those don't really matter and there aren't as many as them as you think. People keep coming up with general terms for things the Broncos could have done better like "make adjustments". Uh, they did make adjustments. They moved guys around. Started putting all 3 receivers on the left to avoid Sherman. Went to Thomas underneath and over the middle more. Nothing really worked though. Could Denver have gotten 17 points? Maybe. But that would have taken a better than average performance from them. I mean, Peyton threw a pick 6 on what I think is an easier throw than his first TD of the season. You can blame Peyton for it if you want. But to me, the difference between his first TD and last night's pick 6 was the defense, not what Manning did.

And it doesn't matter anyways. Because a couple extra field goals or a punt instead of a pick wouldn't really make a difference in the end.

I really think that with the way Seattle played, there was NOTHING Denver could have done to win. Or New England had we beaten Denver. Or Indy in a rematch from a game that Indy won earlier. Or the 49ers of the 80's.

Seattle was going to win the game. And if there was nothing Denver could have done about it, it's not a choke job that they lost.

There was something Denver could do about it and they didn't, hence the choke.

 

[TP]

Q: How many Broncos does it take to change a tire?
A: One. Unless it's a blowout then the whole team shows up.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Q: How many Broncos does it take to change a tire?
A: One. Unless it's a blowout then the whole team shows up.

Heyoooooooooooooo!

 

[BlackNgold 84]

That's debatable.

Without looking at a game log, there was the horrid coverage on the second half kickoff.

No adjustments made by the coaching staff.

Horrible tackling in Denver's secondary.

Soft coverage by Denver that gave the Seattle receivers way too much time and space.

The offensive line getting beat time and time again.

Denver's receivers not winning one on one battles, which they did all year.

Manning not making though throws that he HAD to make to be successful against Seattle.

The list goes on.


It's not just about what Seattle did. On the other side of the coin is someone from Denver not doing their job correctly. This wasn't a 7 point game, this was a blowout. In a blowout, you usually have one team playing great football and the other not so much. They didn't play to their ability due both to Seattle's execution and the lack of their own.

It's okay to admit that they choked...trust me, we know quite a lot about what that looks like around here

This all right here is the reason they lost. Simply saying (not that you're saying that) Peyton is a choke is the reason they lost is so short sighted. No one was beating seahawks.. no one.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

This all right here is the reason they lost. Simply saying (not that you're saying that) Peyton is a choke is the reason they lost is so short sighted. No one was beating seahawks.. no one.

I believe most folks here are stating that Denver choked not just Manning.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

This all right here is the reason they lost. Simply saying (not that you're saying that) Peyton is a choke is the reason they lost is so short sighted. No one was beating seahawks.. no one.

Wait, no one in 2013, or no one ever? I agree with 2013, they've been the best team start to finsh. Ever? Ehh..I think there are teams that could have handled them.

 

[Therick67]

This all right here is the reason they lost. Simply saying (not that you're saying that) Peyton is a choke is the reason they lost is so short sighted. No one was beating seahawks.. no one.

Sure, but the people who love to give Peyton all the credit for the good are the reason people jump on this narrative. When he's having an MVP year he's getting lots of help, but you get the fans/media who want to make it all about him.

You can't have it both ways.

Was it all on him last night? Hell no. Could he have been better? absolutely.

 

[BlackNgold 84]

I believe most folks here are stating that Denver choked not just Manning.

Which is true, Just from what i've heard on the radio and some of the posts on here and other websites a popular refrain is "Manning chokes another one" if that is the case that I'd say about 99.9 % of the league would've choked.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

I love also that when Denver/Manning wins we are flooded with know it all, superior posts from a certain few and then this happens and we get crickets.

 

[BlackNgold 84]

Sure, but the people who love to give Peyton all the credit for the good are the reason people jump on this narrative. When he's having an MVP year he's getting lots of help, but you get the fans/media who want to make it all about him.

You can't have it both ways.

Was it all on him last night? Hell no. Could he have been better? absolutely.

I saw this after i made my last comment.. I agree with this. It also goes for Brady as well. I hate hearing "oh brady has 3 rings compared to mannings 1" no its the patriots have 3 rings. Then again these two players are usually the most hated nationwide depending on what region you live in. The media slurping isn't just for peyton.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

Which is true, Just from what i've heard on the radio and some of the posts on here and other websites a popular refrain is "Manning chokes another one" if that is the case that I'd say about 99.9 % of the league would've choked.

I don't agree with this actually. There's a difference between getting outclassed by a great team playing a great game and choking. And what I saw last night was the latter from Denver. They weren't executing even the plays Seattle was giving them. They looked flat and intimidated, and honestly, I think that reflects their leadership. This wasn't an example of a team who hung around while a great team pulled away. Ergo, they choked, and I think they took the cue from their best player. Looked like he wanted no part of that game.

 

[BlackNgold 84]

I love also that when Denver/Manning wins we are flooded with know it all, superior posts from a certain few and then this happens and we get crickets.

Theres broncos fans in here? Crickets? those fans are probably digging bunkers right now.

 

[Therick67]

Every loss ins't a choke, but when you're the #1 offense in the league, #1 seed in the AFC and you set all-time offensive records and only score 8 points in the superbowl and give 9 away directly....you choked.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Every loss ins't a choke, but when you're the #1 offense in the league, #1 seed in the AFC and you set all-time offensive records and only score 8 points in the superbowl and give 9 away directly....you choked.

And bad coaching and team play all around. If you don't call this choking by Denver then you need to raise the bar.