Proposal: Off Season Trade Thread vol. II

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I don't care for Stewart much either. Why do people ignore all the laziness and focus on his size? We don't need that type of player at all in this org., and especially not if we trade a Stone for him. He's not worth trading one of our best assets.

Definitely agreed.

Watching a team like Columbus...they have waaaay less talent than we do, but they made the playoffs and had a respectable showing against Pittsburgh, while the Sens were sitting at the sidelines. You need talent to win, but you need a lot of worker bees on the team as well. (If you can get the talent to work as hard as the worker bees, then you're golden.)

While we can always use more talent, that talent has to have the right attitude, character and work ethic.

 

[BK201]

Plus there defense is way better than our overall.

 

[Clarke]

Maybe they pay for off season training?

From what i understand NHL players usually are comped on off season programs as the gyms basically entice players to join them as a marketing tool for junior and younger kids.

The exact specifics may be off a little but my understanding is that the trainer will take a percentage like the agent off the players signing bonus/contract depending on the player, if at all.

An example i know of is the ATC here is Mississauga, one of the areas most well known hockey offseason facilitys... Spezza, Subban and Taveres are the big names that train there and they basically just workout and use the ice whenever they want. Same goes for BTNL here where Sam Gagner is the endorser. They have an NHL program where theres a group of like 15 players who have their own workouts

so tldr; Ottawa is likely not spending any more than the average NHL team when it comes to offseason prep, most of that stuff is on the players own time since they technically aren't being paid by their NHL team over the summer.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Or maybe the plan was to spend X dollars in budget and the team is doing exactly what it planned to do several seasons ago?

Nobody knows!

that pretty much seems to be your go to answer.
its OK to connect dots and parse owner/org comments, timelines, player movement, player costs, financial health of the team to come to reasonable conclusions.

its called inductive reasoning.

Do you simply wait for the organization to email you with a comprehensive rationale for its behaviour? or take everything at face value?
Nobody may know, but you can certainly make very educated guesses and reasonable assumptions.

Regardless, if the Sens could get their act together in terms of the message its trying to send the fans, everyone would be better off.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

that pretty much seems to be your go to answer.
its OK to connect dots and parse owner/org comments, timelines, player movement, player costs, financial health of the team to come to reasonable conclusions.

its called inductive reasoning.

Do you simply wait for the organization to email you with a comprehensive rationale for its behaviour? or take everything at face value?
Nobody may know, but you can certainly make very educated guesses and reasonable assumptions.

Regardless, if the Sens could get their act together in terms of the message its trying to send the fans, everyone would be better off.

Its the truth. People can piece together a bit of this or a bit of that and make an assumption, but more often than not there is just as much bias that goes into that assumption as actual evidence.

People talk about these assumptions as if they're fact, then it starts to snowball. People hear something enough that they start to believe it, they put their own negative spin on it and start declaring that to be fact. It goes on and on, that stuff drives me bananas.

 

[HSF]

Yes this coming season
http://m.torontosun.com/2014/04/15/ottawa-senators-owner-prez-gm-offer-final-words-on-season

The Senators will not be a cap team next year and the club will continue with an internal budget with $56-to-$57 million range. The club will continue to put money into drafting an developing to have success.
“It’s very, very easy to increase payroll,†said Melnyk. “Any idiot can do it. Lots of idiots do.â€

that doesn't mean the internal budget wont increase though

 

[HSF]

Definitely agreed.

Watching a team like Columbus...they have waaaay less talent than we do, but they made the playoffs and had a respectable showing against Pittsburgh, while the Sens were sitting at the sidelines. You need talent to win, but you need a lot of worker bees on the team as well. (If you can get the talent to work as hard as the worker bees, then you're golden.)

While we can always use more talent, that talent has to have the right attitude, character and work ethic.

they went through growing pains and lets guys develop which is what we are doing

 

[Busboy]

Isn't this normal for an organization to have?

Yes but the Sens put more money into theirs. You'd be surprised at how poorly some teams develop their prospects.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

that pretty much seems to be your go to answer.
its OK to connect dots and parse owner/org comments, timelines, player movement, player costs, financial health of the team to come to reasonable conclusions.

its called inductive reasoning.

Do you simply wait for the organization to email you with a comprehensive rationale for its behaviour? or take everything at face value?
Nobody may know, but you can certainly make very educated guesses and reasonable assumptions.

Regardless, if the Sens could get their act together in terms of the message its trying to send the fans, everyone would be better off.

I certainly agree with your tidbit about inductive reasonning

However I think management has been pretty clear: we're broke and we're not going to be spending much more than the floor for the next while

It took a while to get there with the Alfie debacle but the team has been pretty open about it since then: get used to cheering for a team on a shoestring budget because that's what's going to happen for next few years

Hell the owner even came about telling people not to get their hopes up after they just signed a huge TV deal

We are here now: we're the Ottawa Senators and we're broke and we're open about it now that the face of our franchise for the last 15 years has left us over money concerns

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Yes but the Sens put more money into theirs. You'd be surprised at how poorly some teams develop their prospects.

IIRC the Sens had 2 or 3 fulltime amateur scouts when Murray came on... thats just one example of the ineptitude that he stepped into and had to rectify.

 

[BigRig4]

IIRC the Sens had 2 or 3 fulltime amateur scouts when Murray came on... thats just one example of the ineptitude that he stepped into and had to rectify.

How many do teams usually have?

 

[Othello*]

We could target Stralman

Methot Karlsson
Cowen Stralman
Wiercioch Ceci
Phillips

 

[Senscore]

Brian Lee, UFA

 

[sens613]

We could target Stralman

Methot Karlsson
Cowen Stralman
Wiercioch Ceci
Phillips

Still don't like cowen on second pair.

 

[Othello*]

Still don't like cowen on second pair.

He can only get better from this year.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Still don't like cowen on second pair.

He's going to be there. Better get used to it.

 

[God Says No]

We could target Stralman

Methot Karlsson
Cowen Stralman
Wiercioch Ceci
Phillips

I'd rather have Gryba.

 

[McManked]

He can only get better from this year.

But even getting somewhat better is nowhere near enough to warrant being a 2nd pairing defenceman.

My optimism regarding Cowen is I really like Potvin's theory that it takes a defenseman (Hedman) 200 games to develop properly. Cowen would hit that mark this year, and I still think he'll develop into a 2nd pairing defenseman.

 

[SLarmer28*]

Any interest in winger Kris Versteeg?

http://www.capgeek.com/blackhawks

$2.2 million with 2 years left on his contract.

If so, Kris Versteeg and David Rundblad for Eric Gryba would be the proposed trade.

 

[Hale The Villain]

After seeing this:

I'd be totally okay with throwing a ridiculous overpayment Phoenix's way for Yandle.

Just think of how good this team's puck possession and transition game would be if we could have one of either of the two best offensive puck movers in the game on the ice for most even strength minutes in every game.

I bet MacArthur-Turris-Ryan could hit 200 points collectively with that kind of puck moving talent on the ice at all time.

 

[Benjamin]

Any interest in winger Kris Versteeg?

http://www.capgeek.com/blackhawks

$2.2 million with 2 years left on his contract.

If so, Kris Versteeg and David Rundblad for Eric Gryba would be the proposed trade.

Sens only have so much budget and too many forwards already. Pass.

 

[Marty Straka]

Eric Gryba on the 2nd pairing over albeit a not so good Cowen? Are you guys well? Personally I don't even see a need to even re-sign Gryba even though he's an RFA.. trade his rights or something.

we already have Borowiecki who can do the same job and Claesson who definitely deserves a chance considering the year he had down in Bingo. And not to mention if we actually sign or trade for a Top4 D.. we'd have a logjam.

Karlsson-Methot
Wiercioch Ceci
Cowen - Phillips
Boro/Claesson

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Edler or Yandle. If they can swing a deal for either of those, I'll be much more optimistic. I'm definitely interesting in buying low on Edler but Yandle is a star. I'd expect to pay out the ass for that kind of high demand player.

Dunno, why you wouldn't want to bring back Gryba, Straka. You have two guys playing out of position in that lineup and Gryba is a good guy to have behind Karlsson and Ceci to play quality PK minutes and plays well against top lines when asked to. Way more experience than Claesson or Borowiecki. Gives us 8 NHL D and allows for a guy like Claesson to be developed. People really underrate what he brings to the table in his role.

 

[John Holmes*]

We don't have more "talent" than Columbus.

 

[King Karlsson]

We don't have more "talent" than Columbus.

Yes we do

Turris, Mac, Ryan, Spezza, Hemsky, Zibanejad, Karlsson, even Michalek are skill players who rely on their talent, not hard work. Turris and Mac also work very hard in addition to their skill, though.