Rumor: Off Season Trade Thread vol. I

[Benjamin]

No team will win with Turris or Spezza as the #1 center.

Well the concept of acquiring Brown would be contingent on the assessment by our management and scouting staff on his potential to perform throughout the remainder of that contract. If they feel that he can regain his point production in Ottawa then he is a worthwhile trade target.

Out of curiosity, how many games have you watched of Brown's over that 180 game period that you are referring to? Score sheets and statistics can be very misleading if you aren't watching a player play on a regular basis. They can give you the impression that a player is regressing or playing poorly when in reality they are simply "snake bitten". A great example of this is Scott Hartnell. When the possibility of acquiring Hartnell was brought up on this board, many posters shot ti down quickly stating that he is a third liner at this point in his career and his contract is too big. Then once he got out of his rut he started producing like a top six forward again.

So with that stated, if Brown can produce 50 + points a season throughout the remainder of his contract plus bringing his physicality and intangibles then he would be a great addition to our team.

Its a MASSIVE risk trading for Brown with that contract. If he doesn't get back to normal thats a 3rd liner making 5.8mil for 8 years....

 

[CanadianHockey]

I do not want Dustin Brown.

Guy is a little coward punk.

Agreed. I'm not a fan.

Again, Getzlaf wasn't the #1 centre and was playing 15 minutes a game (he also went on to put up 82 points the very next season, but we'll pretend like Getzlaf and Turris are comparable talents).

Correct.

MacDonald was the go-to offensive line, the Perry line was their kid line, and the Pahlsson line was the shutdown unit.

 

[Qward]

There is a difference between a guy running around, taking runs at people and making late hits as compared to intentionally targeting players knees(1), using blindside elbows to the head (2) and stomping of players calf's with your skate.

Brown can be a bit of a rat out there but he isn't really much worse then your average agitator. And you can't rely on what divisional rival fans say, they are completely biased. Go ask fans in our division what they think of Neil, I am sure you will get a ton of responses that he is a dirty player that he should be kicked out of the league that he should be fined and suspended yet he never has been suspended of fined. Brown would be like having another Neil but instead of the fighting ability, he can produce offensively.

(1)

(2)

 

[Berserker*]

Well we definitely need to add a few more physical players with a high compete level to our top six. We basically either need players from the following list or players that are in a similar mold and well on their way to being part of this list:

Dustin Brown, Mike Richards, Ryan Callahan, David Backes, TJ Oshie, Curtiss Glencross, Jonathan Toews, Mike Fisher, Scott Hartnell, Shane Doan, Chris Kuntiz, Alexandre Burrows, Ryan Kesler, Andrew Ladd, Evander Kane, Evgeni Malkin, James Neal, Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Jamie Benn, Patrice Bergeron, Jarome Iginla, Brad Marchand, Milan Lucic, Martin Hanzal, Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry

 

[Berserker*]

No team will win with Turris or Spezza as the #1 center.


Its a MASSIVE risk trading for Brown with that contract. If he doesn't get back to normal thats a 3rd liner making 5.8mil for 8 years....

It is a massive risk but that risk is mitigated by the fact that we have professionals who are supposed to be able to properly assess players and their ability to compete at a level relative to their contract. Another option is to require some of the salary to be retained.

 

[YNWA14]

Spezza for Brown would be one of the worst trades in modern history. If not the worst.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

It is a massive risk but that risk is mitigated by the fact that we have professionals who are supposed to be able to properly assess players and their ability to compete at a level relative to their contract. Another option is to require some of the salary to be retained.

Which we clearly have with Phillips at 2.5M and Greening at 3+. Both guys I really like, just not worth their contracts.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Well we definitely need to add a few more physical players with a high compete level to our top six. We basically either need players from the following list or players that are in a similar mold and well on their way to being part of this list:

Dustin Brown, Mike Richards, Ryan Callahan, David Backes, TJ Oshie, Curtiss Glencross, Jonathan Toews, Mike Fisher, Scott Hartnell, Shane Doan, Chris Kuntiz, Alexandre Burrows, Ryan Kesler, Andrew Ladd, Evander Kane, Evgeni Malkin, James Neal, Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Jamie Benn, Patrice Bergeron, Jarome Iginla, Brad Marchand, Milan Lucic, Martin Hanzal, Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry

Most of them arent realistically available or wayyyy to expensive for what they bring. Burrow might be a pick up if he gets bought out. Otherwise our grit needs to come from within or bottom 6 additions like Winnik or Bouma. Put me in the no to brown camp. Guy is too much of a risk for the reason benny pointed out. Ths thread is getting me pumped to see Boro cop though. He could really rise to be what we need if he can figure it out at the NHL level.

 

[Berserker*]

Most of them arent realistically available or wayyyy to expensive for what they bring. Burrow might be a pick up if he gets bought out. Otherwise our grit needs to come from within or bottom 6 additions like Winnik or Bouma. Put me in the no to brown camp. Guy is too much of a risk for the reason benny pointed out. Ths thread is getting me pumped to see Boro cop though. He could really rise to be what we need if he can figure it out at the NHL level.

I know that it would be nearly impossible to acquire almost any of those players on that list. The reason why i put it out there is to justify acquiring Brown and Richards or simply to identify that those are the types of players that we should be looking to acquire/draft.

From that list, the players that we might be able to acquire are: Mike Richards, Dustin Brown, Ryan Callahan, Andrew Ladd, Evander Kane, Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Scott Hartnell, Martin Hanzal

Which we clearly have with Phillips at 2.5M and Greening at 3+. Both guys I really like, just not worth their contracts.

I have been wondering lately about the quality of our pro scouts. We seem to be good at identifying solid amateur talent but when it comes to signing or trading for NHL players we seem to often make poor assessments. Maybe we need to address that in the off season as well.

Spezza for Brown would be one of the worst trades in modern history. If not the worst.

It would be Spezza+ for Mike Richards and Dustin Brown. Contingent on the +, it is a good trade.

 

[fringie]

I would prefer

Spezza + prospect/roster player (Greening, Prince, Boro??)

for

Mike Richards + Muzzin/Martinez + another pick/player, and likely LA eats up part of Richards' contract, 25% maybe.

I really think this trade can work, a little risky that Sens are taking on a big long term contract on a player who may only have 4-5 good years left, don't forget Richards is 29, so only two years younger than Spezza, and also has had some injuries due to the style of play. However, we all know he is leader, and plays the game hard and proper, the young guys on this team can really benefit from that if he is given a leadership role again, he lost his way a bit offensively in LA.

LA gets that offensive player that can score, and only for a short term first, also get rid of a contract, if Spezza is health he may resign there, also LA may be a good option for his family too.

Plus, we can get a young defenseman that can move the puck a little better the current options.

Only problem I can think of from Sens side is money, Melnyk may not be ok with that Richards contract even if LA retains part of it.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It would be Spezza+ for Mike Richards and Dustin Brown. Contingent on the +, it is a good trade.

Sweet! Star #1 centre AND extras, for two 3rd liners... Genius!

You do realize that Mike Richards has had a terrible season right? That he has been a black hole offensively and generally garbage?

Hey, lets trade for him anyways because you remember some highlights from a few years ago and talk of a solid rookie in Philly.

With trade talk proposals like that, I rejoice at the fact that you will always be frustrated, and our team will always be better for it... Jesus...

 

[YNWA14]

If there is any truth to the rumour that Spezza has finally had enough of this city I hope it really is Colorado or Anaheim he ends up at. A strong team that can insulate his deficiencies and benefit from his world class offence.

Otherwise I hope Ottawa works on making sure he isn't playing with plugs (yet again) and shores up our defence.

 

[The Fuhr*]

Has a team ever won a Stanley Cup with their #1 centre being someone who scores less than 60 points? Just wondering.

In the playoffs when the Ducks won the cup
McDonald: 21-10-14
Getzlaf: 21-7-17
Those numbers should be attainable for Turris and Zibanejad

What made the Ducks special was the elite checking center that was Samuel Pahlsson.
14:08ES 3rd (Selanne at 14:47ES 1st)
5:05SH

 

[The Fuhr*]

No team will win with Turris or Spezza as the #1 center.

Ducks won the cup with Pahlsson playing prime minutes

 

[The Fuhr*]

Most of them arent realistically available or wayyyy to expensive for what they bring. Burrow might be a pick up if he gets bought out. Otherwise our grit needs to come from within or bottom 6 additions like Winnik or Bouma. Put me in the no to brown camp. Guy is too much of a risk for the reason benny pointed out. Ths thread is getting me pumped to see Boro cop though. He could really rise to be what we need if he can figure it out at the NHL level.

I think our top six is way to soft to play against... Spezza, Hemsky, Ryan, Mcarthur, Turris, Michalek

The top six plays most of the game and they don't lay any physical punishment at all... After you play Ottawa no bruises

 

[sens4life]

Sweet! Star #1 centre AND extras, for two 3rd liners... Genius!

You do realize that Mike Richards has had a terrible season right? That he has been a black hole offensively and generally garbage?

Hey, lets trade for him anyways because you remember some highlights from a few years ago and talk of a solid rookie in Philly.

With trade talk proposals like that, I rejoice at the fact that you will always be frustrated, and our team will always be better for it... Jesus...

Are you talking about Richards or Spezz?

 

[BankStreetParade]

I have been wondering lately about the quality of our pro scouts. We seem to be good at identifying solid amateur talent but when it comes to signing or trading for NHL players we seem to often make poor assessments. Maybe we need to address that in the off season as well.

Yeah our pro-scouting department should have totally anticipated that Colin Greening would regress to the worst numbers of his career the very next year after he signs his contract.

The guy went from 17 goals in 2011-12 to 17 points this year. How the **** does anyone expect that to happen or to make sense?

 

[The Fuhr*]

Yeah our pro-scouting department should have totally anticipated that Colin Greening would regress to the worst numbers of his career the very next year after he signs his contract.

The guy went from 17 goals in 2011-12 to 17 points this year. How the **** does anyone expect that to happen or to make sense?

Last year including playoffs he had
57GP 11G 23Pts

Management could have waited before giving an extension...

 

[BankStreetParade]

Last year including playoffs he had
57GP 11G 23Pts

Management could have waited before giving an extension...

That's still very much in the neighborhood of his previous production (33 pt pace vs 37 pts in 11-12). This year his production has fallen off a cliff. His shooting % is nearly half of his career average. He's shooting the puck at the lowest rate of his career. Defensively this is the most he's ever struggled. There have been long stretches this year where you wouldn't even know Greening played. He's struggled to even make simple passes or handle the puck.

Are you seriously saying that management and pro scouting should have anticipated this massive drop in production and ability? Come on. Talk about hindsight.

 

[The Fuhr*]

I'm not saying that... I'm saying management could have waited to sign him... He was last year of contract this season.

What was the rush to sign him to that extension?

 

[BankStreetParade]

I'm not saying that... I'm saying management could have waited to sign him... He was last year of contract this season.

What was the rush to sign him to that extension?

There was no "rush". It's pretty commonplace for teams to extend RFAs before the contract expires.

They signed Greening to a fair contract at the time given the fact that they anticipated his production and contributions would increase with time, not decrease so totally and dramatically that people are now wondering if he's even NHL caliber. I mean maybe you, with your crystal ball, could have anticipated a guy on the rise with the right kind of skills for today's NHL (speed, size) declining this sharply. But the rest of the commonfolk of the NHL don't have the benefit of the second-guessing hindsight that you do.

Oddly enough it's the kind of hindsight GMing that you're so fond of. I've seen your post history, you love second guessing any missteps that this GM makes. Yet there's never a peep out of you for the moves that do work out.

I wonder how strong the rhetoric and second-guessing would have been on this forum if we'd had the season we did with Clarkson in the lineup with the season he had.

 

[Qward]

If we were not stuck with an internal budget, Greenings contract would be fine. He works hard every game. But since we have the budget everyone jumps on him like he was making 6M a season.

 

[SensAreSoClose]

There was no "rush". It's pretty commonplace for teams to extend RFAs before the contract expires.

They signed Greening to a fair contract at the time given the fact that they anticipated his production and contributions would increase with time, not decrease so totally and dramatically that people are now wondering if he's even NHL caliber. I mean maybe you, with your crystal ball, could have anticipated a guy on the rise with the right kind of skills for today's NHL (speed, size) declining this sharply. But the rest of the commonfolk of the NHL don't have the benefit of the second-guessing hindsight that you do.

Oddly enough it's the kind of hindsight GMing that you're so fond of. I've seen your post history, you love second guessing any missteps that this GM makes. Yet there's never a peep out of you for the moves that do work out.

I wonder how strong the rhetoric and second-guessing would have been on this forum if we'd had the season we did with Clarkson in the lineup with the season he had.

That's all he does.

 

[OgieO]

I'm not saying that... I'm saying management could have waited to sign him... He was last year of contract this season.

What was the rush to sign him to that extension?

You were all over that signing last summer. You kept going on about how expensive he was going to be and when Murray locked him up you praised the deal as being less than what you expected.

So, of all people people on this board, you should know what the rush was - get him locked up at a good rate before he possibly became too expensive as a UFA. It was a good move by Murray - you said so at the time - and it's ridiculous to revise that assessment with the advantage of hindsight.

The problem wasn't the signing, it's been Greening's regression since the signing.

 

[coladin]

If we were not stuck with an internal budget, Greenings contract would be fine. He works hard every game. But since we have the budget everyone jumps on him like he was making 6M a season.

Every one has an internal budget, what does "internal" mean anyways?

A budget is a budget.

Ottawa is not "stuck" with anything, if there is amove that will make the team better they will do it, even if it means buying out/trading Greening.