Speculation: Off-Season Roster Build, Part Ad Nauseum

[DJN21]

I wish we had either Backes or Oshie....

 

[Zip15]

No, your the guy who called ROR a franchise center... The franchise center who is the 4th best center on his own team, who isn't even slotted to be a center anymore... For the worst team in the NHL.

This post is so disingenuous it's sickening. When Ennis plays wing and center it's an indicator of his versatility. When ROR is maybe moved to wing, it's "ZOMG, he's the 4th best center on a bad team!!" Also, the list of players you wouldn't trade Ennis straight up for now stands at:

Bobby Ryan
Sean Couturier
TJ Oshie
Ryan O'Reilly

Does your Ennis fanboydom know no bounds?

 

[Chainshot]

Cut it out.

Did you guys miss this?

 

[DJN21]

This post is so disingenuous it's sickening. When Ennis plays wing and center it's an indicator of his versatility. When ROR is maybe moved to wing, it's "ZOMG, he's the 4th best center on a bad team!!" Also, the list of players you wouldn't trade Ennis straight up for now stands at:

Bobby Ryan
Sean Couturier
TJ Oshie
Ryan O'Reilly

Does your Ennis fanboydom know no bounds?

andddd Id drive Ennis out of town personally for any of them...

anyways back to the topic of this thread. I know it would never happen but what would folks offer for Chicago's kruger? He was just resigned and completely unlikely to be moved but I felt like he really was a straw that stirred that Chicago drink this playoffs. Love his hussle and PK ability. I wanted to make a proposal on the main board but was shy of the hatred I was sure to encounter lol

 

[enthusiast]

This post is so disingenuous it's sickening. When Ennis plays wing and center it's an indicator of his versatility. When ROR is maybe moved to wing, it's "ZOMG, he's the 4th best center on a bad team!!" Also, the list of players you wouldn't trade Ennis straight up for now stands at:

Bobby Ryan
Sean Couturier
TJ Oshie
Ryan O'Reilly

Does your Ennis fanboydom know no bounds?

Eh, there's a difference between adding responsibility and taking it away. Lord knows ROR would be playing center here though.

 

[Jim Bob]

So, some teams to revisit as potential destinations:

Miller:

St Louis
Colorado
Anaheim (high potential for him to extend there)
Edmonton

I think Anaheim and Edmonton are set in goal for this season and Colorado probably is, too.

The only way I see Colorado being interested is if they can talk to Miller and agree on an extension. Their core is too young for one year of Miller to make sense.

 

[stokes84]

This post is so disingenuous it's sickening. When Ennis plays wing and center it's an indicator of his versatility. When ROR is maybe moved to wing, it's "ZOMG, he's the 4th best center on a bad team!!" Also, the list of players you wouldn't trade Ennis straight up for now stands at:

Bobby Ryan
Sean Couturier
TJ Oshie
Ryan O'Reilly

Does your Ennis fanboydom know no bounds?

Disingenuous how? If a player can't even crack his teams top 4 centers, how can he possibly be considered a FRANCHISE center?

As for the players you mentioned, no, I wouldn't trade him for any of them. And guess what? Ennis out-produced every single one of them this year. And that's with him being placed outside of his element.

Many of the flamers around here can only see size. But they fail to recognize that he is a better skater, better hands, more creative player than any of them. He's significantly cheaper than ROR, Oshie, and Ryan, and younger than Oshie and Ryan as well.

 

[dotcommunism]

Disingenuous how? If a player can't even crack his teams top 4 centers, how can he possibly be considered a FRANCHISE center?

I don't think this is how line-up construction works. If your team has more than two top 6 centers, you probably aren't going to waste one of them on the fourth line when you could put guys on the wings in the top six.

 

[cybresabre]

Disingenuous how? If a player can't even crack his teams top 4 centers, how can he possibly be considered a FRANCHISE center?

Malkin's not a FRANCHISE center?

 

[stokes84]

I don't think this is how line-up construction works. If your team has more than two top 6 centers, you probably aren't going to waste one of them on the fourth line when you could put guys on the wings in the top six.

Right, but it also means he isn't a FRANCHISE center, which was the point.

 

[stokes84]

Malkin's not a FRANCHISE center?

I don't know... Are there three other centers on his last place team that are ahead of him on the depth chart? I might have to do some research.

Edit: I did some research, and the Penguins were NOT in last place. More research coming....

Edit 2: I found out that Malkin led the NHL in scoring and won a Hart Trophy. I'm not sure, but I think this makes an ROR comparison hard to make.

 

[cybresabre]

I don't know... Are there three other centers on his last place team that are ahead of him on the depth chart? I might have to do some research.

Edit: I did some research, and the Penguins were NOT in last place. More research coming....

Edit 2: I found out that Malkin led the NHL in scoring and won a Hart Trophy. I'm not sure, but I think this makes an ROR comparison hard to make.

I impulsively edited my better question away: is he first line center?

I doubt you really did the research, by the way, you probably just went off of memory.

 

[stokes84]

I impulsively edited my better question away: is he first line center?

I doubt you really did the research, by the way, you probably just went off of memory.

Of course he's a first line center, and if ROR were here, he'd probably be our 2nd center.

I apologize for being so snarky, but there is a pretty constant barrage of flaming that goes on in regards to my opinion if Ennis vs. Those players. It gets tiresome. I think I have made it very clear that my opinion is defensible, at the very least, even if you don't agree with it.

 

[Dunkster19]

Disingenuous how? If a player can't even crack his teams top 4 centers, how can he possibly be considered a FRANCHISE center?

As for the players you mentioned, no, I wouldn't trade him for any of them. And guess what? Ennis out-produced every single one of them this year. And that's with him being placed outside of his element.

Many of the flamers around here can only see size. But they fail to recognize that he is a better skater, better hands, more creative player than any of them. He's significantly cheaper than ROR, Oshie, and Ryan, and younger than Oshie and Ryan as well.

Let's face it Ennis has sick hands and great vision. He is certainly a skilled hockey player. It is hard to fairly compare him to the previously mentioned 4 players as each brings something different to the table. I think it goes more towards team philosophy and team needs. I view him as expendale only because it seems we are moing towards a hard working, butt busting physical team. Sure we could find a spot for Ennis but if we can move him for a piece that will better suit our needs and system then we move him. Otherwise we determine if he is a better fit at wing or center and slot him in. No need to get all angry about it, we are all entitled to our opinions and just because we differ itdoesn't make one better than the other. Let's have fun on here!

 

[Paxon]

Of course he's a first line center, and if ROR were here, he'd probably be our 2nd center.

I apologize for being so snarky, but there is a pretty constant barrage of flaming that goes on in regards to my opinion if Ennis vs. Those players. It gets tiresome. I think I have made it very clear that my opinion is defensible, at the very least, even if you don't agree with it.

ROR would easily be the best center on our team this season. Similar offensive production to Hodgson while being excellent defensively.

 

[Zip15]

Disingenuous how? If a player can't even crack his teams top 4 centers, how can he possibly be considered a FRANCHISE center?

First, I don't recall Jame calling ROR a franchise center. Rather, he's argued--as I have--that O'Reilly is the type of player that teams need to be successful a la Ryan Kesler or Mike Richards or, to a greater extent, Patrice Bergeron. (I fully anticipate you citing Colorado's place in the standing, as you likely fail to grasp the principle of necessity vs. sufficiency.)

Second, who's saying that he's not one of Colorado's four best centers? Perhaps Colorado believes he is a better center than Stastny, but that ROR is far more versatile--a word that appears you want to apply only to Tyler Ennis, of all players--and they'd get more utility out of playing ROR on the wing and Stastny at center than vice-versa. It's also very likely that as good as MacKinnon is and is going to be, he won't be at ROR's level as an 18 year-old, but they want him playing his natural position as he develops.

Your argument sucks.

As for the players you mentioned, no, I wouldn't trade him for any of them. And guess what? Ennis out-produced every single one of them this year. And that's with him being placed outside of his element.

2013 production:

Ryan O'Reilly: .69 ppg
TJ Oshie: .66 ppg
Tyler Ennis: .659 ppg

Over the last two seasons the two have produced at nearly identical rates. Throw in the fact that O'Reilly is 10x the defensive player that Ennis is, is a far better center than Ennis, and can play against elite competition and win the possession battle, and the only conclusion is that O'Reilly is the superior player. This is not a GM in this league who'd pick Tyler Ennis over Ryan O'Reilly. Nor is there a GM who'd take Ennis over Couturier. Not ****ing one.

Many of the flamers around here can only see size.

And you only see Ennis' sick danglez.

But they fail to recognize that he is a better skater, better hands, more creative player than any of them. He's significantly cheaper than ROR, Oshie, and Ryan, and younger than Oshie and Ryan as well.

He's also worse defensively than all of them, doesn't play all three phases like the others, can't play top competition like the others, and he's easier to knock off the puck.

 

[TehDoak]

Can we split this off and have an Ennis vs all comers discussion elsewhere? I fail to see how the last page of discussion has anything to do with our offseason roster building.

 

[Jame]

I concur, not a single GM or Coach in the NHL would take Ennis over O'reilly/Couturier...

And any fan who actually watches the game, and understands what it takes to be a contender, wouldn't choose Ennis either.

 

[Jame]

Can we split this off and have an Ennis vs all comers discussion elsewhere? I fail to see how the last page of discussion has anything to do with our offseason roster building.

Ennis for Oreilly

there... back on track

 

[haseoke39]

As someone who probably wouldn't do Ennis for Oshie, I would do Ennis for ROR in a freaking heartbeat.

Just by way of a benchmark.

 

[stokes84]

Sigh.... Some people just can't respect other people's opinions. It's odd that you feel the need to defend Jame. It's like pack flammers that need to protect their territory.

I apologize for this because it's really not important, but Zip wants to tell me I'm making things up.

Post 526 from Ruff Didn't Score Enough: Trades 'n' FAs II:

Jame:

What is everyone's definition of a franchise player?

"Because I absolutely believe Ryan O'Reilly is the type of player who fits the label... But I suspect I'm in the minority. I guess I am in the minority. I guess my definition of franchise player is different."

 

[stokes84]

Can we split this off and have an Ennis vs all comers discussion elsewhere? I fail to see how the last page of discussion has anything to do with our offseason roster building.

Yeah, I'm sorry for getting us so far off topic, but when the flamming begins, it's hard to not defend your position.

 

[Dunkster19]

Ennis for Oreilly

there... back on track

Emphatic yes but too bad we would have to wait till end of February

 

[Jame]

Sigh.... Some people just can't respect other people's opinions. It's odd that you feel the need to defend Jame. It's like pack flammers that need to protect their territory.

I apologize for this because it's really not important, but Zip wants to tell me I'm making things up.

Post 526 from Ruff Didn't Score Enough: Trades 'n' FAs II:

Jame:

What is everyone's definition of a franchise player?

"Because I absolutely believe Ryan O'Reilly is the type of player who fits the label... But I suspect I'm in the minority. I guess I am in the minority. I guess my definition of franchise player is different."

franchise "player"

yup...

the type of player that is a foundational piece of what you need to contend for a cup (an all around, all situations center that can do it all and lead by example)

it's good that you found a quote where I made it clear that my definition was different than most.

it would be great to have an 80 pt shutdown center... but there are literally less than a handful of those. a 50-60 pt center, who is elite defensively... is a franchise building player.

you NEED a player like that.... you don't need super duper danglez

franchise "center" gives the impression of "elite" offense... and no one will confuse Oreilly for an 80-90 pt center.

hey, remember when you tried to write off Oreillys offense the previous season as a product of Landeskog? Yea... how'd landeskog look this year without Oreilly? you want me to post the stats?

 

[stokes84]

Again, this comes down to personal values. You need speed to win in the NHL. You could argue that Boston and Chicago were the two fastest teams in the NHL top to bottom. It's something we need more of, and its something Ennis has and ROR doesn't. I'm going to drop it at this point because it's an argument based on opinions and neither of us us going to change the others mind.