Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt VI: I declare this the summer of George!

[Oskar The Groucho]

Paxton has pitched a similar number of innings to Gray the last 3 years, with similar results, but in the AL East, where Gray shit his pants. Isn't much older. Give me Pax instead of giving up prospects for Gray.

I like Paxton I just wish the rumors arent true and his velocity has dropped to 92/93 mph

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

I still really feel a Realmuto would be the icing on the cake for this team. His pitch framing and defense is the best of any catcher in the MLB. He can hit and his sprint speed is amazing as well. He is also only 29. Just makes to much sense and lets him mentor Kirk for the foreseeable future

 

[Kurtz]

I like Paxton I just wish the rumors arent true and his velocity has dropped to 92/93 mph

He was down from 96 to 93 last year - but in only 20 innings. Could be temp injury related, could be some guys see velocity tick up later in season. Was up to 94 throwing for scouts in December.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

He was down from 96 to 93 last year - but in only 20 innings. Could be temp injury related, could be some guys see velocity tick up later in season. Was up to 94 throwing for scouts in December.

I would take 94 from him any day of the week. The only question is what kind of contract would he garner as Boras client?

 

[Bluelines]

Paxton has pitched a similar number of innings to Gray the last 3 years, with similar results, but in the AL East, where Gray shit his pants. Isn't much older. Give me Pax instead of giving up prospects for Gray.

Paxton kinda shit the bed in 2020 but I tend to dismiss 2020 as it was a shortened season and IMO anyone can have a bad few games which weights the season over such a short season. WHIP 1.475, 6.64 ERA, year prior he was lights out good.

The drop in his fast ball concerns me, he was pitching off the mound and hitting 94mph, but that 3mph drop from 2019 is a concern. It's much different pitching off the mound with no hitters vs game day action. Heck I was hitting mid 70's off the mound when I was in my 40's, I know that sucks but the point is I was hitting much high off the mound vs what I was doing vs batters ... then again I was never a real pitcher , 2B and Catcher for me.

 

[shortfuze]

Montero+Tellez+ maybe for Grey and Mustokas

would they need tellez with votto there?

 

[tmlfan98]

Olney on Blue Jays signing Springer, what happened with Brantley and more

-Olney says the Jays were not remotely close to landing Brantley. It’s possible a framework could have been discussed but the Jays never offered enough money
-Insinuated the Cubs want to move salary and have to take less for Bryant. Says the Jays should offer Grichuk and B level prospects for Bryant and Hendricks
-Says the Jays are in on Hand
-Likes Bauer for the Jays but doesn’t think they are willing to offer what he is asking. It’s possible they offer more to try to get closer to his number
-ultimately thinks Odorizzi is their guy

If Grichuk plus 2 of Hiraldo/Van Eyk/De Castro gets it done I would be down.

 

[BlueForever75]

I still really feel a Realmuto would be the icing on the cake for this team. His pitch framing and defense is the best of any catcher in the MLB. He can hit and his sprint speed is amazing as well. He is also only 29. Just makes to much sense and lets him mentor Kirk for the foreseeable future

I like this and have been lobbying for some time for this to be a signing for the Jays. I see way too much value to not at least make a competitive offer. That being said they have spent a lot of money on Springer and Shapiro did state it was 2 elite players or 4 very good players to get better. Springer would fall in the elite category. Yates would fall in the very good category. So is there room for another elite player? That is the question.

Would love him on our team, but I think priorities have shifted to SP and INF for now. Unless he comes in at something real affordable I would have to think their priorities are correct for NOW!!!

 

[BlueForever75]

If Grichuk plus 2 of Hiraldo/Van Eyk/De Castro gets it done I would be down.

I think anyone would. But something tells me its more. If Bryant is willing to talk extension and the Cubs know this. They will be asking for more. Look for Groshans to be part of a deal if indeed its completed.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

I like this and have been lobbying for some time for this to be a signing for the Jays. I see way too much value to not at least make a competitive offer. That being said they have spent a lot of money on Springer and Shapiro did state it was 2 elite players or 4 very good players to get better. Springer would fall in the elite category. Yates would fall in the very good category. So is there room for another elite player? That is the question.

Would love him on our team, but I think priorities have shifted to SP and INF for now. Unless he comes in at something real affordable I would have to think their priorities are correct for NOW!!!

I think they are still in on him 100% or at least have an offer in for him. After the springer signing maybe he sees us as a more realistic target and a more competitive team with him on it. I get him returning to the Phillies but really is that team going anywhere in the next 3-4 years?

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

I think anyone would. But something tells me its more. If Bryant is willing to talk extension and the Cubs know this. They will be asking for more. Look for Groshans to be part of a deal if indeed its completed.

If it came with a Bryant extension then I am all for Groshans+

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

would they need tellez with votto there?

If there is a DH in the NL maybe

 

[Bluelines]

If there is a DH in the NL maybe

Maybe I dreamed it but I thought the NL was going to a DH?

 

[Kurtz]

I would take 94 from him any day of the week. The only question is what kind of contract would he garner as Boras client?

We seem to be on great terms with Boras now, and Pax might be ok with a 1-year show me deal to get him into free agency next year when there'll be more money in the marketplace.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Maybe I dreamed it but I thought the NL was going to a DH?

It hasn't been confirmed by the MLB yet or even the roster size or amount of games being played

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

We seem to be on great terms with Boras now, and Pax might be ok with a 1-year show me deal to get him into free agency next year when there'll be more money in the marketplace.

I hope so but 33-year-old pitchers don't get many long-term deals nowadays do they?

 

[BlueForever75]

I think they are still in on him 100% or at least have an offer in for him. After the springer signing maybe he sees us as a more realistic target and a more competitive team with him on it. I get him returning to the Phillies but really is that team going anywhere in the next 3-4 years?

Ultimately it will come down to whether any of the rumored discussions with Reds or Cubs goes anywhere. Any one of those deals brings salary commitments with it long term. That in itself may eat into what they have available to spend on a catcher.

If lets say a team like the Cubs or Reds come back to the Jays and say they want a player like Jansen in a deal, then it may be something that peaks the Jays interest to re-visit Realmuto. But at this time I really think that they are ok hoping the best from Jansen. Although he may be viewed at the weakest link in our current proposed lineup, there is opportunity for great reward if he develops into what we saw in the minors. He has the tools and his cost is controlled for the next 3 seasons which works in the Jays favor.

 

[Discoverer]

Unless it's a huge bargain, I don't even think I would be interested in extending Bryant as part of a Cubs deal. There's way too much uncertainty given his injury and 2020 performance to be committing big dollars long term. I would view him as a pure rental until he has at least a couple months to show he's healthy and still the player he was prior to 2020.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Ultimately it will come down to whether any of the rumored discussions with Reds or Cubs goes anywhere. Any one of those deals brings salary commitments with it long term. That in itself may eat into what they have available to spend on a catcher.

If lets say a team like the Cubs or Reds come back to the Jays and say they want a player like Jansen in a deal, then it may be something that peaks the Jays interest to re-visit Realmuto. But at this time I really think that they are ok hoping the best from Jansen. Although he may be viewed at the weakest link in our current proposed lineup, there is opportunity for great reward if he develops into what we saw in the minors. He has the tools and his cost is controlled for the next 3 seasons which works in the Jays favor.

Yes, it will all depend on the trades they are thinking about making or the irons they have in the fire. I just don't get what people see in Jansen. He can barely hit and his defense is good one day and bad the next. I think letting him play 45-50 games per year under Realmuto would be amazing for him, if he isnt traded that is

 

[Gargyn]

Yes, it will all depend on the trades they are thinking about making or the irons they have in the fire. I just don't get what people see in Jansen. He can barely hit and his defense is good one day and bad the next. I think letting him play 45-50 games per year under Realmuto would be amazing for him, if he isnt traded that is

Ya I’m not a fan of Jansen at all. I just don’t see what others are seeing. He will never be anywhere close to Realmuto that’s for sure. But in the end, I don’t see this happening. Jays need to get 2 starters and a 3B. Moustakas, Gray and Odorizzi would end up costing close to 40 million and I don’t think the Jays want to spend much more than that. If they got Realmuto and gave him 25, they still need a 3B and 2 starters and Jansen isn’t returning an entry level star pitcher.

 

[Scorvat]

Yes, it will all depend on the trades they are thinking about making or the irons they have in the fire. I just don't get what people see in Jansen. He can barely hit and his defense is good one day and bad the next. I think letting him play 45-50 games per year under Realmuto would be amazing for him, if he isnt traded that is

Danny Jansen has 5 years of control where he will dirt cheap, is very young for a catcher, has no underlying injury issues, hit in the minors and his underlying metrics indicate he was very unlucky this year. Not to mention his defense also grades very well with most advanced metrics.

Adding JTR would really move this team to having the best position core in baseball, but Jansen is not holding this team back and the money would be way better spent on acquiring pitchers like Paxton, and Tanaka or acquiring a Gray/Hendricks/Marquez through the trade market. By the time we need to pay the young core the Springer and JTR are really gonna hurt us

 

[Leafs1991]

MLB.com has the Blue Jays top 20 prospects as:

1. Pearson
2. Martin
3. Groshans
4. Woods Richardson
5. Manoah
6. Kirk
7. Martinez
8. Moreno
9. Hiraldo
10. Kloffenstein
11. Van Eyk
12. Pardinho
13. Lopez
14. Jimenez
15. Machado
16. Brown
17. De Castro
18. Murphy
19. Castro
20. Smith

I'm not sure what the Cubs/Reds would need in terms of prospect capital coming back, but the Jays have Groshans/Martin near the top of the depth chart in terms of high end skill and coming to the show in the next 2-3 years. So you look at prospects that would be blocked because of guys that are with the Jays and won't be moved Bichette/Vlad plus Groshans/Martin.

You're probably looking at a package that includes one of Jimenez/Machado + Castro/Murphy? I'm also not sure what kind of salary the Jays can send back.

That prospect pool looks so promising.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Danny Jansen has 5 years of control where he will dirt cheap, is very young for a catcher, has no underlying injury issues, hit in the minors and his underlying metrics indicate he was very unlucky this year. Not to mention his defense also grades very well with most advanced metrics.

Adding JTR would really move this team to having the best position core in baseball, but Jansen is not holding this team back and the money would be way better spent on acquiring pitchers like Paxton, and Tanaka or acquiring a Gray/Hendricks/Marquez through the trade market. By the time we need to pay the young core the Springer and JTR are really gonna hurt us

Catchers also usually take more time to begin hitting at the major league level because of the focus needed on dealing with the entire pitching staff. Jansen's offensive output isn't that far behind Realmuto's timeline(with better defense at the same age, and better minor league offensive numbers) and while he's clearly inferior now and probably won't ever get to that level, like you said it's nowhere near an issue. On a team where you need another starting infielder, maybe another solid pen arm, and 1 or 2 more high end starting pitchers you keep your 25 year old league average catcher who has a solid chance to become a top 5 catcher down the line and focus on those areas instead.

 

[Bluelines]

Danny Jansen has 5 years of control where he will dirt cheap, is very young for a catcher, has no underlying injury issues, hit in the minors and his underlying metrics indicate he was very unlucky this year. Not to mention his defense also grades very well with most advanced metrics.

Adding JTR would really move this team to having the best position core in baseball, but Jansen is not holding this team back and the money would be way better spent on acquiring pitchers like Paxton, and Tanaka or acquiring a Gray/Hendricks/Marquez through the trade market. By the time we need to pay the young core the Springer and JTR are really gonna hurt us

This is not directed at you Scorvat, I think some people underestimate the impact a great pitch framer can have on a pitching staff. If you have an average pitcher pitching to a guy like JTR every game, that pitcher will pitch ahead of the count far more than he ever has. I remember those great pitching rotations in Atlanta, Avery, Maddux, Glavine, their catcher would intentionally set up 4 inches off the plate and get the call because he was an amazing pitch framer. If you are an average pitcher pitching ahead of the count, that average pitcher becomes a very good pitcher. I think we all understand its far better to be at a 1 and 2 count vs a 2 and 1 count.

Great pitch framing is an absolute thing of beauty...



Adding JTR or Bauer is a pipe dream though, both of those guys will head to a big market US team.

 

[dredeye]

Olney on Blue Jays signing Springer, what happened with Brantley and more

-Olney says the Jays were not remotely close to landing Brantley. It’s possible a framework could have been discussed but the Jays never offered enough money
-Insinuated the Cubs want to move salary and have to take less for Bryant. Says the Jays should offer Grichuk and B level prospects for Bryant and Hendricks
-Says the Jays are in on Hand
-Likes Bauer for the Jays but doesn’t think they are willing to offer what he is asking. It’s possible they offer more to try to get closer to his number
-ultimately thinks Odorizzi is their guy

Man if we get Hendricks and Bryant for Grichuk and a b level prospect I’ll be through the roof.