Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 12th: We don't know Dickey (about any extension. Yet)

[Cloned]

I will say this:

It's going to be an interesting adjustment to actually expect a win every night now.

 

[Leafssss]

Yea no.
Kershaw > Dickey
Greinke > Johnson
Billingsley < Morrow

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2012.shtml#NLcya

 

[BigFatCat999]

I'm a Red Sox fan and I'm just leasing a spot on the bandwagon. Fact is, the intrigued me. So much speed. Based on WAR stats the Jays cut their deficit in half just with the position players. Not including Johnson Buerle. I listen to Jays games and all I heard was 'injury' I think with health and the big trade the Jays are 2 wins better than any team in the East. With Dickey? I say 5-9

 

[pooleboy]

Washington is up there too.

Too many people are acting like this would guarantee us the WS.

washington has a very good rotation, the rays still do. laa texas dodgers all have good rotations. Detroit has a good rotation, however other than the Angels we have the best offence, our team Defense is top notch and the jays speed is insane, our team is dynamic which could seperate the jays from the rest of the pack.

 

[TootooTrain]

Washington is up there too.

Too many people are acting like this would guarantee us the WS.

Ofcourse it wouldn't. There are no guarantees in pro sports...ever.

With the addition of Dicky I'd put our rotation in the top 5 for sure. Without him, just outside that top 5.

Tampa, Philly, SanFran, Washington, and the Dodgers all have exceptional rotations.
Edit: Forgot Detroit, good call Eyedea

 

[Eyedea]

I'd argue that we're in the top 5, but yeah not nearly the best rotation.

San Francisco
Washington
Detroit
Los Angeles (Dodgers)
Toronto

Tampa would be right behind us imo.

 

[TieClark]

Yea no.
Kershaw > Dickey
Greinke > Johnson
Billingsley < Morrow

Ehh... I'd agree but that's close. Johnson can be absolutely dominant just as much so as any of those pitchers. It all depends on the year really.

 

[The Nemesis]

Look it doesnt take Bill James to realize that JPA's OBP, Strike Out Rate and Average are terrible. While cold hard statistics must always play a factor, I still think JPA provides some value to this team outside of what he brings as an actual player

That's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying that what he brings isn't enough to offset his godawful stats for it to be viable to make him a 1B. That's all I'm saying.

 

[TieClark]

Washington is up there too.

Too many people are acting like this would guarantee us the WS.

No team is guaranteed a WS or even a playoff spot.. but it certainly makes it far more realistic and likely.

 

[Sokil]

Hindsight, but I take it everyone here would rather have Gio Gonzalez than Dickey?

WSH gave up A.J. Cole, Tommy Milone, Derek Norris and Brad Peacock for him; how does that stack up to our package for Dickey?

 

[Sokil]

I'd argue that we're in the top 5, but yeah not nearly the best rotation.

San Francisco
Washington
Detroit
Los Angeles (Dodgers)
Toronto

Tampa would be right behind us imo.

outside of Price, Tampa's rotation doesn't really compare to ours or other top rotations at all.

 

[Sokil]

No team is guaranteed a WS or even a playoff spot.. but it certainly makes it far more realistic and likely.

Exactly. Once you're a favorite you're at least in the mix of things and have a chance to make it. Let's not forget that Washington may have gone deeper in the playoffs if not for their idiotic decision to shut down Strasburg

 

[TootooTrain]

outside of Price, Tampa's rotation doesn't really compare to ours or other top rotations at all.

Have you had your eyes closed whenever Tampa plays a game?

 

[GoSensGo6172]

The SF and LA trios could be just as good.

Baumgartner is not on the level of a Johnson or Dickey. He has had good stats, but apart from being on a WS winner, he really hasn't proved much of anything. Meanwhile, Zito is old and over the hill and is bound to have a regression very soon. Lincecum could still rebound, but the last we saw of him he was pitching as a reliever cause his ERA as a starter was close to 5.00

The Dodgers trio is damn good though, I would put it on the same level as the Jays, but give the Jays the slight advantage. Kershaw and Dickey are about equal, both have won a Cy Young, but the edge would go to Kershaw for being more dominant and being younger. Greinke and Johnson are pretty close as well, no Johnson doesn't have a Cy Young to his name but a couple years ago he was one of the best pitchers in the game. The edge though would be Morrow over Billingsley and that's not even close if Morrow is healthy.

 

[Cloned]

I'd be surprised if AA was done after this trade.

He clearly wants to go for it all this year and I'm sure he's going to try to find a way to plug the hole at 1B.

 

[GoSensGo6172]

I'd say Greinke and Johnson are dead even. Greinke has one amazing season in his career but since than has been just good, not great. It's a big year for him. Same goes for Johnson, but when both are on their games it's actually pretty close.

 

[Eyedea]

Hindsight, but I take it everyone here would rather have Gio Gonzalez than Dickey?

WSH gave up A.J. Cole, Tommy Milone, Derek Norris and Brad Peacock for him; how does that stack up to our package for Dickey?

Derek Norris #2 behind Harper, ranked a B+ (similar to d'Arnaud, although TDA is borderline A) by Sickels. A.J Cole was ranked #5 in their system, Peacock #16 and Milone #19.

According to BA Norris was #2, Cole #4, Peacock #10, and Milone was ranked the pitcher with the best control in the Nats system.

outside of Price, Tampa's rotation doesn't really compare to ours or other top rotations at all.

Moore is a monster, and Hellickson is no slouch. Granted, his LOB% is wicked high and his peripherals spell mediocrity, but I still think he's a good enough #3 for them. I can see Moore having a huge breakout season next year, and he's still only 23.

 

[King Mapes]

Washington is up there too.

Too many people are acting like this would guarantee us the WS.

Washington might be one rotation I would take before ours. If we are counting pitchers 1-3 I would take LA's too but our depth is better

 

[GoSensGo6172]

I feel kind of silly that I forgot the Nationals, they have a better rotation than the Jays.

I'd take Starsburg/Gio over Dickey/Johnson. To me that top 2 is the best in baseball and can be for the next 5 years, especially when Stras doesn't have any innings limit.

Strasburg
Gio
Zimmerman
Haren
Detwiller

Yeah, that's insane.

Washington
Toronto
LA Dodgers
Philadelphia
LA Angles
Tampa

That's how I would rank the rotations.

 

[King Mapes]

Have you had your eyes closed whenever Tampa plays a game?

They did lose Shields though so it won't be as good next year. Still some great arms just sayin

 

[GoSensGo6172]

And yeah Sokil, I would have rather Gio too. That guy is going to be a top 5 pitcher in the majors for the next 5-7 years.

It's too bad he wasn't on the market this year or AA wasn't going all out like this last year. You have to think that D'Arnaud+Syndergaard would have been more than enough to get him.

But Gio can't throw a dirty knuckler, so there's that

 

[TootooTrain]

They did lose Shields though so it won't be as good next year. Still some great arms just sayin

They have definitely lost some durability with Shields gone, but there's lots of high end talent remaining.

 

[King Mapes]

I'd argue that we're in the top 5, but yeah not nearly the best rotation.

San Francisco
Washington
Detroit
Los Angeles (Dodgers)
Toronto

Tampa would be right behind us imo.

I do like San Fran's and forgot about them TBH but it depends on Lincecum. If he pitches like he did before they have a top end rotation. If he doesn't they're probably slightly behind us.

 

[canucksfan]

I feel kind of silly that I forgot the Nationals, they have a better rotation than the Jays.

I'd take Starsburg/Gio over Dickey/Johnson. To me that top 2 is the best in baseball and can be for the next 5 years, especially when Stras doesn't have any innings limit.

Strasburg
Gio
Zimmerman
Haren
Detwiller

Yeah, that's insane.

Washington
Toronto
LA Dodgers
Philadelphia
LA Angles
Tampa

That's how I would rank the rotations.

I would add Detriot. Verlander, Fister, Sanchez, Scherzer and Smyly is one of the best.

 

[King Mapes]

They have definitely lost some durability with Shields gone, but there's lots of high end talent remaining.

For sure, if there is one way to run a team Tampa is it. A lot also think Hellickson has been lucky, I don't believe in luck over a number of years.