Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 12th: We don't know Dickey (about any extension. Yet)

[King Mapes]

I don't know. I think Dickey is better than Shields, while TDA+Synd holds similar value to that of Myers. Still we can see that the value for these starting pitchers is tremendously high.

Plus we've already added a lot this offseason. Royals didn't really improve besides that deal.


We potentially could have 4 aces.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Hockey prospects and baseball prospects are not comparable.

 

[Apollo Leaf]

This is way too much for Dickey. I don't get why AA just can't go after a younger top of the line pitcher with the same package.

 

[Eyedea]

na, in 2-3 years you will be regretting all this love for dickey when he leaves cause he is 40+ in 2 years....

its like us trading:

morgan rielly
Nazem Kadri
Tim Connolly

for

Jarome Iginla

just really doesn't make sense, if your going to trade the farm might as well go for someone who can be here for a little while. and i have played baseball my whole life, i have 0 confidence in knuckelballers especially if there coming at this price.

imo, signing marcum or some FA would do us just as good.

edit: if your going to go big, go for someone you know who can be reliable not a 35 year old knuckelballing wonder.

Or this deal could be similar to that of Iginla for Nieuwendyk. You can't really compare the sports because the bust and regression rate is astronomically higher in baseball.

 

[Future]

When can we hear about the details of the trade. This is killing me not knowing.

 

[pooleboy]

Does anyone really care what others think? I'm begining to wonder, is there more importance placed on a great collection of prospects, or winning a world series? AA over time collected a very good prospect base, no reason to believe he cant do the same again.

i cant speak for everyone on here, im just no in favour of trading our best prospect + possibly our top pitching prospect for a 38 knuckelballer. theres a reason why theres only 3 in the league... (maybe 4 idk)

 

[p.l.f.]

were getting Dickey with a chance to win the world series tho
KC gets Shields for what.... a remote chance at the wildcard?

 

[Communal Blood]

When can we hear about the details of the trade. This is killing me not knowing.

When/If Dickey signs an extension.

 

[King Mapes]

Yeah I edited my post --- that is what you were referring too haha.

It's all good just saw the edit.

Why do people keep bringing hockey up? Prospects are completely different value wise in the 2 sports and the window to compete in baseball is small. Red Sox are a mess, Yanks are old and beat up, O's got lucky last year IMO and Tampa traded Shields so took a hit short term. This is a huge opportunity

 

[2112]

If the difference between Happ or R.A. Dickey is 10 wins (+/-), I'm all for the deal.

 

[King Mapes]

This is way too much for Dickey. I don't get why AA just can't go after a younger top of the line pitcher with the same package.

None are available?

 

[GoSensGo6172]

Remember how people were mocking Royals for what they gave up for Shields. Yeah, that's us now.

Woah! Easy there bud. They're not even anywhere close to being the same thing. The Rays made a desperation move cause they NEED to have a winning season and become a playoff team quickly. The GM went all out to save his job as he knows it's his ass on the line. The Royal are MAYBE a playoff team but still are likely a year away from making any serious noise.

This move for the Jays cements them as a legitimate favourite for not only the AL East and the playoffs but right up there with the Giants, Dodgers, Angles for WS favourites. AA is giving this team every opportunity to do huge things and that comes at a premium cost sometimes.

If the Jays win the WS, or even make the WS or ALCS in the next year or two, it will be all of us who are laughing at the rest of the league. Meanwhile, it will be 3-4 years before the Mets are even somewhat competitive again. Prospects, as good as TDA and Synd are, can be replaced and duplicated. On top of that neither TDA or Synd are on the same level of Will Myers.

So please no more comparisons to the Royals/Shields trade.

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

were getting Dickey with a chance to win the world series tho
KC gets Shields for what.... a remote chance at the wildcard?

Even with Shields I would say their chances are not even near the point where we can describe it as "Remote"

 

[Isles Junkie]

This is way too much for Dickey. I don't get why AA just can't go after a younger top of the line pitcher with the same package.

because a younger top of the line pitcher would cost more.

 

[pooleboy]

Hockey prospects and baseball prospects are not comparable.

im not quite sure if you know this but i was trying to relate it to hockey cause this is a hockey forum. but thanks for pointing out the difference.

 

[darko]

Remember how people were mocking Royals for what they gave up for Shields. Yeah, that's us now.

Dickey is better than Shields. Also Jays can end up with 3 years of Dickey and have a reasonable chance of bringing him back after those 3 years if he chooses to play on and still has it. Royals have Shields for 2 years and he is bolting for sure. The other thing is that a guy like Dickey makes Jays favorites to win the division, it's a move to put you over the top. A guy like Shields makes Royals somewhat competitive but they'll be lucky to finish .500.

I can understand your anger and frustration.

 

[New Liskeard]

i cant speak for everyone on here, im just no in favour of trading our best prospect + possibly our top pitching prospect for a 38 knuckelballer. theres a reason why theres only 3 in the league... (maybe 4 idk)

You realize why that is? Throwing a knuckleball is very difficult, at least with consistency. Winning the world series is what i want to see again, if it costs prospects to so be it. You cant win the world series if you dont take chances, and imporve, AA has done this. This potential move will also be attractive for players who want to come here and win, and maybe keeping JJ.

 

[p.l.f.]

thinking D might want more $ as a BJ

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 35min
Assessment of longtime agent: A deal of 3 years, $40-45 million is fair market value for Dickey on an extension from TOR, beyond $5m in '13.

 

[The Expert]

No we wouldn't. Drabek, Gose, TDA was a lot more than we're giving up

No it's not. TDA's value has gone up a lot since then. Not to mention Syn doesn't already have a Tommy John on his resume, calling it a lot more, let alone more, is ludicrous.

 

[King Mapes]

i cant speak for everyone on here, im just no in favour of trading our best prospect + possibly our top pitching prospect for a 38 knuckelballer. theres a reason why theres only 3 in the league... (maybe 4 idk)

Because its extremely hard to throw it?

 

[Langdon Alger*]

Overpayment or no, I think the problem here is that people aren't used to our team being in the position to make trades like this. When was the last time the Jays were considered to be an actual threat in the AL East? 1994? We've been cannon fodder for the Yankees and Red Sox so long that the fanbase isn't out of the "acquire prospects, build them up, trade them once they get good" mode yet.

We've been planning for "the future" - the two- or three-year window where we have a chance to contend - for nearly 20 years. That time is now, and the Jays need to take advantage. If that means overpaying for the reigning NL Cy Young winner to put the team over the top, it's a price I'll gladly pay.

Now I have to wait almost four months to watch this team play. Don't know how I'll manage it.

 

[le_sean]

I don't think people can grasp the notion of facing 95mph fastballs one day and the next, facing 80mph knuckleballs, and then 95mph fastballs again. That is a nightmare match-up for any team in the playoffs. It's not just about the regular season. Speaking of which, the guy tore up AL East teams last year.

Finally a Toronto team is really going for it, and people complain. Not only can they replenish the cupboards through the draft (what is it, like 40 rounds?), then can sign IFAs. This isn't hockey.

 

[Anthrax442]

Do people here think we have enough offense? What if Melky can't produce, Bautista's arm is ****ed and EE doesn't have the same form?

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

If the difference between having Happ or R.A. Dickey is 10 wins (+/-), I'm all for the deal.

I assume this is the thinking. Happ is probably good for 9-11 Wins as the 5th man at BEST. However if we add a potential 20 game winner in Dickey there is a chance that our Starting Pitching could amass 85-90 Wins.

 

[cyris]

Plus we've already added a lot this offseason. Royals didn't really improve besides that deal.


We potentially could have 4 aces.

And you only really need 3 pitchers in the playoffs.