TSN: Off-Season Game Plan: Buffalo Sabres

[Jame]

It's not a contradiction that reaching because we "need" a d is ridiculous when we need more than a d guy. It's common sense. It's take the best player available. And it's not one of these d

No, a contradiction is taking Keller, when all 3 D are universally ranked above him... After preaching the consensus narrative for so long

 

[Zman5778]

It's not a contradiction that reaching because we "need" a d is ridiculous when we need more than a d guy. It's common sense

You just said that you reject need as an argument, yet argue for an LW based on need.

Yes, we have more than one need. But you're talking out of both sides of your mouth if you reject need as an argument when talking about D.......but then advocate taking a LW at 8 because of need.

 

[Samsonite23]

ISS has Chychrun 8th and Keller 12th. In fact, ISS has all 3 defensemen rated ahead of Keller.

Not that consensus. The other consensus.

 

[Myllz]

I said"where do I start" because I wasn't sure if I needed to include all of that stuff about sticks and being used. Perhaps I should have but I didn't want it to degrade to a 5th grade argument, which it has so I have no more inclination.

Uh...sticks? There's something about sticks that's swaying the decision to take a forward over a defenseman at 8?

 

[brian_griffin]

Not that consensus. The other consensus.

And with that respnse, this thread is now added to my all-time favorites, including the Ollie Jokinen - Turkey Girl thread, "Goatlender / Goaltender", and a now-forgotten poster on this board who argued for days about measuring intangibles.

 

[JThorne]

Frankly, I attribute the D falling narrative as more a narrative of forwards rising and the whole "You don't take Dmen high in the draft" attitude that seems to have gone around lately (ie, Jones slipping to 4 and Hanifin falling to 5).

End of argument right here.

 

[JThorne]

Nice way to contradict yourself in one sentence.

D is a need. LW is a need.

So basically you're rejecting the D need argument in favor of an argument you accept.

Just stop banging your head against his brick wall of stubbornness.

 

[JThorne]

So all of you naysayers about drafting a defenseman with the #8 pick, will you admit your mistake and eat your crow when the player becomes a solid contributor?

Those in favor of drafting D aren't against a forward, just have figured out that a D on the team makes a bigger improvement. In general.

Another forward here still leaves the team with a gaping hole for the long term future. Who knows, a LW in our system might actually step up. Maybe Caggiula or Vesey show up.

 

[vcv]

So all of you naysayers about drafting a defenseman with the #8 pick, will you admit your mistake and eat your crow when the player becomes a solid contributor?

Those in favor of drafting D aren't against a forward, just have figured out that a D on the team makes a bigger improvement. In general.

Another forward here still leaves the team with a gaping hole for the long term future. Who knows, a LW in our system might actually step up. Maybe Caggiula or Vesey show up.

I don't know how to tell you, but... he signed with Edmonton a few weeks ago.

 

[Zip15]

And yet it's not a narrative so much as a consensus among drafts analysts as they continue their fall.

It wasn't born here...and nothing here is causing it.

A middling crop of top D is causing it. Like how not every year is a great 1 overall...this isn't a great top D year. No matter how much you NEED it to be.

You can't wish Chychrun into being Ekblad comparable.

Yet each one of that "middling crop" is ranked ahead of Keller on McKenzie's most recent rankings, which is culled from a group of actual, living and breathing NHL scouts.

 

[Samsonite23]

And with that respnse, this thread is now added to my all-time favorites, including the Ollie Jokinen - Turkey Girl thread, "Goatlender / Goaltender", and a now-forgotten poster on this board who argued for days about measuring intangibles.

I've said it before. I think it's going to be my new slogan.

 

[Jame]

I've said it before. I think it's going to be my new slogan.

It's good.

 

[Myllz]

Yet each one of that "middling crop" is ranked ahead of Keller on McKenzie's most recent rankings, which is culled from a group of actual, living and breathing NHL scouts.

Clearly that's just to make those defenseman feel better and to have more parity at the draft. Duh.

 

[JThorne]

I don't know how to tell you, but... he signed with Edmonton a few weeks ago.

Yeah yeah. I wasn't the only one who missed that. Last I knew it was some guy tweeting that Vancouver or Edmonton were the options.

 

[EightyEightMPH]

Just spitballing here, but does this satisfy a need and bring us in under the cap?

Kane -- O'Reilly -- Okposo
Ennis -- Eichel -- Reinhart
Moulson -- Girgensons -- Gionta
Larsson -- Deslauriers -- Foligno

Yandle -- Gorges
Bogo -- Risto
Franson -- Pysyk/McCabe

Lehner
Johnson/Ullmark

-----

Maybe 5/5yrs for Okposo and 6/5yrs for Yandle? Sabres get a natural right winger with 60 point potential and a left-handed offensive defeseman.

 

[JThorne]

Just spitballing here, but does this satisfy a need and bring us in under the cap?

Kane -- O'Reilly -- Okposo
Ennis -- Eichel -- Reinhart
Moulson -- Girgensons -- Gionta
Larsson -- Deslauriers -- Foligno

Yandle -- Gorges
Bogo -- Risto
Franson -- Pysyk/McCabe

Lehner
Johnson/Ullmark

-----

Maybe 5/5yrs for Okposo and 6/5yrs for Yandle? Sabres get a natural right winger with 60 point potential and a left-handed offensive defeseman.

Both of those signings are huge risks. Not to mention expecting ANYTHING from Ennis. And putting Moulson on the third line until he proves he no longer sucks.

 

[OkimLom]

Just spitballing here, but does this satisfy a need and bring us in under the cap?

Kane -- O'Reilly -- Okposo
Ennis -- Eichel -- Reinhart
Moulson -- Girgensons -- Gionta
Larsson -- Deslauriers -- Foligno

Yandle -- Gorges
Bogo -- Risto
Franson -- Pysyk/McCabe

Lehner
Johnson/Ullmark

-----

Maybe 5/5yrs for Okposo and 6/5yrs for Yandle? Sabres get a natural right winger with 60 point potential and a left-handed offensive defeseman.

It satisfies covering a couple needs and puts us under the cap, but we can do better and I hope we do. I don't like any of these moves.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I think somebody is going to overpay Okposo this summer, and I'd rather it not be us. If the Blues don't re-up Backes, he's a guy I'd look at signing for RW/C. Really gritty, good two-way player, great in front of the net (which could free Reinhart up to actually make plays on the PP).

I could definitely get behind a Yandle signing. The guy definitely has his warts, but he's still a big upgrade on what we've got at LD, and he'd add some much-needed offensive skill to our blue line. The question is how long/how much? He wouldn't be my first choice for addressing the D, but he's a choice we don't have to trade assets for, so...

 

[Husko]

Okposo's contract will take him into his mid 30s. It obviously will end up being a terrible deal. Backes has the potential to be just as ugly, depending on the term he gets.

 

[Dingo44]

I think somebody is going to overpay Okposo this summer, and I'd rather it not be us. If the Blues don't re-up Backes, he's a guy I'd look at signing for RW/C. Really gritty, good two-way player, great in front of the net (which could free Reinhart up to actually make plays on the PP).

I could definitely get behind a Yandle signing. The guy definitely has his warts, but he's still a big upgrade on what we've got at LD, and he'd add some much-needed offensive skill to our blue line. The question is how long/how much? He wouldn't be my first choice for addressing the D, but he's a choice we don't have to trade assets for, so...

I agree on Yandle. I don't want him to make more than Risto if they sign Risto long term but some people act like he's Franson. Of course, he'll cost a lot more than Franson but he's a solid #1 LHD until we find that guy through trade/draft.

 

[EightyEightMPH]

I agree on Yandle. I don't want him to make more than Risto if they sign Risto long term but some people act like he's Franson. Of course, he'll cost a lot more than Franson but he's a solid #1 LHD until we find that guy through trade/draft.

At least if you spend the money on Yandle, you know what you're getting. You ensure the next 5/6 years are locked up so you don't have to settle for another Cody Franson in 2 summers.

As for Okposo, my thought process was go out and get a pure right winger instead of a player that pivots. A guy who understands his position and plays it well. I think our only natural right winger is Gionta? Everyone else is C,RW?

 

[Jim Bob]

I hope Murray stays away from pretty much any of the top end UFAs.

Forget draft picks that bust, it seems that top end UFAs end up having regrettable contracts within two years at an insanely high rate.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I hope Murray stays away from pretty much any of the top end UFAs.

Forget draft picks that bust, it seems that top end UFAs end up having regrettable contracts within two years at an insanely high rate.

I agree. I'm open for two and maybe three years deals on mid-level players that help Buffalo keep young players on proper development timelines while advancing development on the big club. Players I'm open to are guys like Dale Weise and Braydon Coburn. Not going to break the bank, fill an important role, and keep younger guys from getting hammered in roles they aren't ready for.

 

[Zip15]

I hope Murray stays away from pretty much any of the top end UFAs.

Forget draft picks that bust, it seems that top end UFAs end up having regrettable contracts within two years at an insanely high rate.

I take this approach more with the forwards. Which is why I am far more in favor of the short-term RWs (Hudler, Stempniak, Vrbata) than the big-ticket guys (Okposo, Backes, et al.) who'll get big term and be terrible contracts in 2-3 years.

 

[JThorne]

At least if you spend the money on Yandle, you know what you're getting. You ensure the next 5/6 years are locked up so you don't have to settle for another Cody Franson in 2 summers.

As for Okposo, my thought process was go out and get a pure right winger instead of a player that pivots. A guy who understands his position and plays it well. I think our only natural right winger is Gionta? Everyone else is C,RW?

Do you though? You know what you should be getting. But Yandle hasn't played with our players. He might not mesh. He might mesh amazingly. Unknown.

He''ll be 30 when the season starts. Will he be what he has been for the entirety of the contract he receives? Likely 5 or 6 years. How many defensemen are still playing at the quality he'll be paid for at that age? "But we can just dump him off to a cap floor team." Just like we're doing with Moulson?

I hope Murray stays away from pretty much any of the top end UFAs.

Forget draft picks that bust, it seems that top end UFAs end up having regrettable contracts within two years at an insanely high rate.

Completely agree also. The high end is not where we should target. Middle range at best. And no long ass contracts! Those only turn out bad. Unless its your homegrown talent still at a young age.