GDT: Oct. 28: Flames @ Senators [5:30pm MT - SN1]

[Lunatik]

Backlund is not an adequate stopgap. He's quite inadequate for the role he's playing.

Also it is not pretty clear that Bennett is pencilled in at center. They keep moving him to and from the wing, that is the definition of being unsure.

 

[Calculon]

Treliving and Hartley were vocal about Bennett being a centre at the NHL prior to the season. Nothing's changed with that.

Hartley shuffling the lines because his biggest priority has always been winning now rather than developing should not be a surprise either. And with how good Bennett looked yesterday in the middle, Hartley might actually get over himself and stick with it for a while.

Under realistic expectations for a rebuilding team, Backlund is more than adequate. Singling him and him alone for a slow start is unsurprising but meaningless; a very small sample size in which the entire team aside from a handful of players look horrific is a poor basis by which to make a judgement. He was just re-signed to a three year deal; which he earned based on his previous accomplishments; doubt he's going anywhere in the next year or two.

 

[Lunatik]

Yeah nothing has changed...... except he isn't exclusively playing center.

Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative Calc.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Moving him between Wing and C indicates to me that they are trying to ease him into the Center role.

 

[tmurfin]

Moving him between Wing and C indicates to me that they are trying to ease him into the Center role.

This. Even Crosby spent half or more of his rookie season playing wing. Both Hartley and Treliving have made it clear they expect Sam to be a center.

 

[Anglesmith]

Bennett is by no means a lock to end up a centre. Their treatment of Bennett early this season isn't that different than Colborne. The early line was that they saw him as a centre and they wanted to make that happen. However, right now, would anyone say Colborne is more likely to end up a centre than a winger?

 

[Lunatik]

Moving him between Wing and C indicates to me that they are trying to ease him into the Center role.

That is still alot different than the blunt "he will be playing center". It tells me they are seeing where he plays best.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Yeah nothing has changed...... except he isn't exclusively playing center.

Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative Calc.

Facts are they want him to be a centre, that they've played him there at all shows that this is the case. Problem is the lack of depth on the wings (and he's good) which is why he's been playing there as well.

That he hasn't been playing centre doesn't mean that isn't the goal for his development.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

No player is a lock to end up a center. I'm not convinced Monahan is a lock to end up center but that's blasphemy in Flames circles as if Monahan is a dominant center who's led us to Stanley Cups.

Developing your top 6 forwards primarily as centers though, is sensible. There are only so many center spots though, so the AHL for Granlund, NCAA for Jankowski, and the flip-flop for Bennett are necessary evils.

 

[InfinityIggy]

That is still alot different than the blunt "he will be playing center". It tells me they are seeing where he plays best.

I don't have any offhand information about when they are playing him wing vs C, but I am assuming it is mostly situational based on who is on the ice with him.

 

[Lunatik]

I don't have any offhand information about when they are playing him wing vs C, but I am assuming it is mostly situational based on who is on the ice with him.

it varies, they have been trying him in several places to try and get him (and everyone else) going. He's played a decent amount of LW, alot more than one would figure when the team adamantly stated he would be used at center.

 

[InfinityIggy]

it varies, they have been trying him in several places to try and get him (and everyone else) going. He's played a decent amount of LW, alot more than one would figure when the team adamantly stated he would be used at center.

I think as mentioned above, our lack of depth (especially at LW) has forced Bob to use him little more on the wing than he otherwise would of. Bouma and Ferland aren't top 6 LW's, but I think they would probably slotted there often if they were healthy.

It'll be interesting to see what they do if we get a healthy group of forwards again at some point.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I think if they were winning (or scoring) they'd continue using him at centre.

And really they were playing him at centre last night between Gaudreau & Frolik which ended up being a good decision.

 

[Calculon]

Eh, Bennett started at centre for the first few games before being moved to Backlund's wing, aka the same spot where he thrived in the playoffs last year. To me, that reads as more Hartley fervently trying to get a win, rather than an indictment on Bennett's play down the middle. When the wins didn't come, Hartley reshuffled and Bennett's back at centre.

And a bit rich of the guy who's so desperate to make Bennett a winger so a) they can claim they were right and b) Jankowksi/Staal/Sutter, etc. can be the second line centre to accuse someone else of having a narrative. Absurd.

 

[Anglesmith]

I think if they were winning (or scoring) they'd continue using him at centre.

And really they were playing him at centre last night between Gaudreau & Frolik which ended up being a good decision.

True, but keep in mind that playing centre for Gaudreau made both Jooris and Granlund look really good last year, too.

 

[Lunatik]

I think if they were winning (or scoring) they'd continue using him at centre.

And really they were playing him at centre last night between Gaudreau & Frolik which ended up being a good decision.

and if they were winning with him on LW he'd keep playing there too. They have relaxed from a hard stance, that tells me they are opening up to other possibilities.

 

[tmurfin]

True, but keep in mind that playing centre for Gaudreau made both Jooris and Granlund look really good last year, too.

Also keep in mind that Bennett has been buzzing for multiple games. It's not like he was in any sense a product of Gaudreau last night.

 

[Anglesmith]

Also keep in mind that Bennett has been buzzing for multiple games. It's not like he was in any sense a product of Gaudreau last night.

I'd agree with you there based on what we saw, but maybe there are more subtle factors like how Gaudreau draws attention and that sort of thing. Also, Bennett was buzzing last game, too, but he also played with Gaudreau for part of the game at the same time, so...

But I would hope you're right, and that Bennett is looking good because Bennett is good.

 

[tmurfin]

I'd agree with you there based on what we saw, but maybe there are more subtle factors like how Gaudreau draws attention and that sort of thing. Also, Bennett was buzzing last game, too, but he also played with Gaudreau for part of the game at the same time, so...

But I would hope you're right, and that Bennett is looking good because Bennett is good.

At the tail end of last game they played together yes, but not the two games before where he was the only player outside of Gaudreau/Frolik to do anything. Credit where it's due, Bennett has been playing now good for awhile now, nothing to do with Johnny.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Bennett is by no means a lock to end up a centre. Their treatment of Bennett early this season isn't that different than Colborne. The early line was that they saw him as a centre and they wanted to make that happen. However, right now, would anyone say Colborne is more likely to end up a centre than a winger?

Difference being that Colborne has about 1/10th the hockey sense that Bennett does, and isn't anywhere near as good a skater. There's nothing about Bennett that indicates he couldn't succeed at centre. The only real drawback so far is his dismal FO%, but most young kids suck at faceoffs.

 

[Calculon]

It's a safe bet Bennett will be a centre in the NHL unless someone better (or even just a better fit) comes along and pushes him to wing (e.g. Stamkos moving over for Filppula). Or he's mostly a centre but plays some wing when the team needs a spark (e.g. Crosby centering Malkin). Either way, the team's going to take a very long look at what he's capable of in the middle and the odds of them making a short term move for a better stopgap is so low, it's essentially non-existent.

Anyway, was curious about Bennett's faceoffs stats thus far.

Bennett's at 44.9% (albeit with a pretty small sample size - 22/27).

As a comparison:

Crosby in his rookie year was 45.5% (534/640).

McDavid's sitting at a 34.5% FOW% at the moment (38/72).

 

[tmurfin]

Difference being that Colborne has about 1/10th the hockey sense that Bennett does, and isn't anywhere near as good a skater. There's nothing about Bennett that indicates he couldn't succeed at centre. The only real drawback so far is his dismal FO%, but most young kids suck at faceoffs.

And Colbornes played 160+ NHL games and Bennett is a rookie, there's no real comparison to be made there.

 

[Anglesmith]

And Colbornes played 160+ NHL games and Bennett is a rookie, there's no real comparison to be made there.

I was talking about Colborne's rookie season, though. He was brought in, everyone was talking about how he was going to be a centre, and that's what the organization wanted from him, then he was moved to the wing, and they talked about how it was temporary, and they just wanted him to get confidence before moving him back to centre in the future. Then the same thing happened last year in his sophomore year, and now, where we are right now, it really doesn't look all that likely that he'll be a centre.

That's the point I'm making; in two years from now, Bennett could follow that same path (although we would hope he's a much better hockey player than Colborne). Some guys find their home in the NHL on the wing, and that's okay.

 

[tmurfin]

I was talking about Colborne's rookie season, though. He was brought in, everyone was talking about how he was going to be a centre, and that's what the organization wanted from him, then he was moved to the wing, and they talked about how it was temporary, and they just wanted him to get confidence before moving him back to centre in the future. Then the same thing happened last year in his sophomore year, and now, where we are right now, it really doesn't look all that likely that he'll be a centre.

That's the point I'm making; in two years from now, Bennett could follow that same path (although we would hope he's a much better hockey player than Colborne). Some guys find their home in the NHL on the wing, and that's okay.

I guess he could? But at the time Colborne came in our C depth was abysmal, and when he did convert to LW it was widely recognized that he was more effective in that role. But still, as of today, rookie Sam Bennett is just as good as Colborne is now, and it's not like he's looked lost at center, so I still don't see a solid comparison. Other then hypothetical scenarios.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Why rush it? Bennett and Monahan are expected to be established top 6 Cs, possibly as soon as next year (Monahan obviously already is, so it's just Bennett now). Is it really worth trading Backlund, adding assets to him, acquiring a guy who will pretty much be guaranteed to be older or more expensive, just to get a small performance boost a year or two early?

Moving him for a rental, I would not have much interest in. But moving for a long term solution to our top 9, I would consider it.

Dubinsky is another guy I would look at.