Observations XXVII

Should a moderator become involved and direct this thread to true Observations, X's and O's ?


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101st_fan

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Oct 22, 2005
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101 I have watched Craig Smith for years. I’m pretty confident I know how he fits offensively. If you think he deserves more ice time than Forsberg, more power to you.

if that is not what you are implying, then I have no arguments.

Smith has 11 goals in 2020. Granlund has 11 goals in 2020. Forsberg has 5 ... 2 of which were at ES.

It comes down to who is performing. Forsberg was our best forward in the early part of the season. He hasn't been of late. 16 games ... over 260 minutes on ice ... without a goal before last night. He needs to make the case on ice why he's the better option than Smith or Granlund.
 

101st_fan

I taught Yoda
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I love when people use small sample sizes and misrepresent play to prove a point..... Not worth the effort. Same tireless shtick.

Defending an intellectual position isn't worth your effort?

Duchene, Forsberg, Johansen, Arvy are supposed to be our best players. The delta between supposed to and currently are is vast right now.

Forsberg put up 14g, 13a in the 2019 part of this season (34games). He has 5 g(2 ES, 3 PP), 13a in 29 games starting with the Winter Classic. Those numbers for 2020 are while being 2nd in TOI among forwards at both ES and on the PP so he's getting his minutes. As I said, he needs to make the case on the ice as to why he is the better option. If the team needs a setup man, Fil is the guy lately (most assists among Pred forwards in 2020). If we need a goal scoring winger, the team has options that are performing significantly better over almost half of the season to date.
 

Legionnaire11

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Coaches have to react on small sample sizes constantly, even period to period. Imagine if Hynes were stubborn and insisted that the "top 6" players were given the most ice time, because surely with ice time they will break out and ascend to their expected levels of performance again...

Except they don't, and the team misses the playoffs. Then we're supposed to say "well, that's okay because Joey got his minutes!" Or is it better to give extra minutes to the players who are currently producing and giving the team a chance to win?

If Smith, Bonino and Grimaldi can produce in limited minutes, and force more ice time, then certainly Forsberg, Johansen and Duchene can do the same or better right? And if they do, you better believe that they will get top minutes again.

I mean, if these guys depend on more ice time to outscore Bonino, then the situation is much worse than we thought.
 

sparkle twin

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And what makes it so frustrating for me is how quickly we always seem to allow an empty net goal when the situation is reversed and we have our goalie pulled. I mean, it took about 5 seconds Saturday against Colorado.
10000000% with you on the entire post!

And not just the quickness of it, but it seems a player from the other team will get the puck, not even look, and fire it directly into our empty net from behind their own goal line! Meanwhile, if we do manage to clear the puck without icing it, our player skates almost to the blue line and still misses the net!
 

Predsanddead24

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Mar 7, 2019
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Coaches have to react on small sample sizes constantly, even period to period. Imagine if Hynes were stubborn and insisted that the "top 6" players were given the most ice time, because surely with ice time they will break out and ascend to their expected levels of performance again...

Except they don't, and the team misses the playoffs. Then we're supposed to say "well, that's okay because Joey got his minutes!" Or is it better to give extra minutes to the players who are currently producing and giving the team a chance to win?

If Smith, Bonino and Grimaldi can produce in limited minutes, and force more ice time, then certainly Forsberg, Johansen and Duchene can do the same or better right? And if they do, you better believe that they will get top minutes again.

I mean, if these guys depend on more ice time to outscore Bonino, then the situation is much worse than we thought.

Yeah and the reduction in ice time under Hynes for Forsberg ultimately amounts to 2-3 shifts a game. It's not like he has been getting 10 minutes a night outside of that one game. If he can't produce getting 16 and a half minutes a night why is he going to magically produce in the extra minute and a half.
 
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101st_fan

I taught Yoda
Oct 22, 2005
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Yeah and the reduction in ice time under Hynes for Forsberg ultimately amounts to 2-3 shifts a game. It's not like he has been getting 10 minutes a night outside of that one game. If he can't produce getting 16 and a half minutes a night why is he going to magically produce in the extra minute and a half.

Forsberg trails only Granlund at TOI both ES and PP over the past 29 games.
 

Armourboy

Hey! You suck!
Jan 20, 2014
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While I'm not a huge fan of stats and analytics, sometimes they have their use and can tell you if your eye test is on track.

In this case the argument is that Forsberg should get more ice time, yet the raw stats are telling us he, along with Granlund, are the two highest TOI. That looks an awful lot like someone needs their eyes checked.
 

Byrddog

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Nov 23, 2007
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I love when people use small sample sizes and misrepresent play to prove a point..... Not worth the effort. Same tireless shtick.
That can be said about every player on this team. In small sample sizes Granlund, Forsberg, Saros, Smith, Bonino, Arvy have all had spurts this year of good hockey. The problem is all have long stretches of no goals. Arvy, Forsberg, Granlund, Duchene, Johansen are the players that can not go extended games without goals or the entire team fails. Johansen is the cat daddy of failure he had a 16 game period without a goal Forsberg went from Feb 1 to the Dallas game without a goal again 16 games for him as well. I am not going to go thru each player but all have extended streaks of not potting a goal you can even add Smith in there if you wish. Smith is no different than he has always been a streaky player and this season has been no different he had a 15 game goalless streak. And while he always ends up in the 20ish area by having a few multiple goal nights he is unreliable to pace the team. Each of these players have a strength Smiths work along the boards has never been a question as well as his hustle but you had best not rely on him for a timely goal. Arvy and Granlund have been snipers in there time buy not this year. Forsberg has been dynamic but not this year, in fact Forsberg has never really met his potential not a single season, he is the most talented forward on the team and honestly should be a PPG guy.

It is not surprising that people here come to the defense of each one well except Johansen I think that ship has sailed. But all of these 20 goal scorers need to have a goal every 4 or 5 games consistently not have 7 to 19 game streaks without goals. That is what has happened this season a entire roster of Smiths who will have a two or three game streak then go back to the icebox. You can cover for one maybe two guys doing this but when the entire top 6 have this issue in a season the team struggles.

Your 100% correct about short sample sizes all they can indicate is that perhaps a player is coming out of the funk. The only player who has exceled this year has been Josi the next best player has been Ellis both have met expectations and surpassed.

There are defenders for each player on the roster but collectively this bunch is not put together well on the ice and now on paper they are failing. Other than Josi a case could be made to shed every player except Fabbro who at 21 is still over his head, but recall Josi was in the same situation when he came in to the league. I said then that Josi was going to be a better player than Weber an took criticism but he has surpassed what Weber was. I think Fabbro could be better than Weber as well don't know yet if he will be better than Josi.

The inconsistent play makes it difficult to know what team is going to show up on any given night. This team has had a 4 game steak and a 4 game losing streak is just as possible. Coaching changes have not proven to turn problem areas around and when it comes down to it the failures are on the ice not the bench. If wholesale change is not embraced it is not going to turn around. A .500 WC team does not meet expectations any longer. It is doubtful that the needed changes will take place a couple new faces is what we have come to expect over the years and that's about what will happen in the offseason. I hope im wrong but this is not a very fun or entertaining team to watch now.
 
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glenngineer

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I like how no one has mentioned Granlund has been getting a ton of PK time which is going to make his TOI numbers higher that Forsberg's.
 

bdub24

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Why is there some movement to turn Forsberg into some kind of whipping boy? Isn't he on pace for the same points as last year? Some posters here are just weirdos.
 

Predsanddead24

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He should be out best goal scorer and prior to last game had gone a month without scoring in a stretch of games that was critical to our playoff hopes. Any criticism of a player doesn't equal making them a whipping boy, but it is something worth discussing.
 

bdub24

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right, so he went dead when last February he was on fire, but his overall production is almost identical....Johansen is much more deserving of the criticism..it's just a weird fixation when his net contribution is no different from his past.
 

Predsanddead24

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right, so he went dead when last February he was on fire, but his overall production is almost identical....Johansen is much more deserving of the criticism..it's just a weird fixation when his net contribution is no different from his past.

I'm much more inclined to want to discuss what's happening with the team recently then to rehash what he did earlier in the season. You're right Johansen deserves criticism too as do the rest of our top players and I've complained about all of them here too. It is possible to think multiple players arent playing well as surprising as that may seem. The discussion about Forsberg was because of the link to the ESPN article someone posted yesterday so I was talking about him as an example.
 

GoldOnGold

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Mar 27, 2016
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Month-by-month save percentage:

October
Rinne: .920
Saros: .872

November
Rinne: .857
Saros: .902

December
Rinne: .885
Saros: .886

January
Rinne: .900
Saros: .911

February
Rinne: .932
Saros: .930

March
Rinne: .742
Saros: .957
 
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