Dreger: NYR interested in Rickard Rakell, JT Miller & Ben Chiarot

[bernmeister]

All I have to say is…. Really?! C’mon man.

what? really??!! c'mon!!!

- Rangers suffered but isolated drafted well/lucked into a couple of higher lottery draftees

- people get as I have been saying for some time now, hard cap means cheaper elc contracts are necessary to handle cap, worth more if productive or signif potential projected

- everybody wants Rangers blues blue chips

- other than maybe Jones who style wise is redundant due to Fox, we do not yet have SURPLUS bluest blue chips available for deals

- despite this, there are continued asks, which is fine, but then they don't take no for an answer, which is not.

- typically, it may be projected that short term returns for vets MAY or may not adequately improve NYR chances, but STILL NY has to overtake Colorado, Calgary, and coupla others who outplayed us this yr. And that is assuming we win out vs ballpark equals incl FL, CAR, PIT and others. So any such splurge is likely a stupid overreach when the smart play is get down to a younger core, and not only develop but enable increased chemistry by playing them w/minimum line, etc changes.

- complicating this further is CRUSHING level of cap hit caused by next year increase of Zib + Fox deals, requiring just over 11m cap from somewhere. We can just barely do that, but need to have scratch for LaF/Kakko etc down payment on their bridges as we await most of Trouba's 8m to be dealt and replaced by Schneider, w/Nils L fitting into Schneid's 3RD.

- this means I don't give a flying or a stationary fig to the contrary by beat writers [whether honest or looking for clickbait], NY cap means CAN NOT add anybody. IF they do, painful consequence likely to be forced sale of LaF/Kakko at reduced rates b'c league sees it is forced, and will offer less. THAT WOULD BE UNDESIRABLE AND UNACCEPTABLE.

- NY can only do select currency which trades up and consolidates in rare area of limited surplus which also reduces cap. So it does not pay to deal KA Miller to get Chychrun. But if we dealt Lindgren + Jones + 2 1sts + for Chych at half +, THAT would work. That is a youth for youth deal which actually helps slightly on cap.

- NY can do vets for vets, vets for youth, or youth for youth. It cannot do youth for vets.

Everything can be considered with an open mind to see if there is another exception which fits the above construct, like Chych.
But understand, it MUST fit this construct.

I make no apologies for telling it like it is, and for not wanting to take deals which do not work to long term best NYR interests w/most possible younger assets available for longer to max extend NY window.

I get some of this is subjective opinion. A large chunk of it is based on math, and cap reality, and is not.

Tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Start with what NY might be willing to trade and work backwards, its easier that way. Whatever these types get you is what theyll get or move on. Everything else is too important either now or in the future. They aren't moving Lafreniere, Kakko, Shesterkin, Fox, Miller, or Schneider.

Chytil, Gauthier, Strome, Lunkdvist, Kravtsov, 1st pick, Georgiev, Hunt, Legg Mckegg, maybe Lindgren for another dman but doubtful.

 

[jay from jersey]

Chiarot isn't better than Savard. Savard was an established and legitimate top-4 defender in Columbus. One who had a 10+ goal 30+ season in years past.

Chiarot was a fringe top-4 guy, more so regarded as a bottom pairing guy that could play up in a pinch.

Savard also had a monster playoff the prior year when he shut down Matthews and the leafs.... for what it’s worth

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

If trouba isn’t gone in a year, 2max I’d be shocked.... Schneider will be ready for top 4 duty, and trouba will still have value at 30 years old, with only 2 years left on his contract...
They are going to need to shift Trouba’s cap hit elsewhere in the line up.
Big physical top 4 RD that hit and can move the puck will always be in demand for playoff teams...
Hopefully trouba continues to play the best he has in his career, right as his NMC switches to a MNTC...
Rangers will have no problem trading trouba with 2-3 years left on his current deal... especially considering how crazy the Defenseman market was in free agency this past summer with the flat cap.
Fox and Schneider are going to be the rangers top 4RD for a long long time...

Trouba's got a NMC for two seasons after this one so he's not going anywhere, especially if he has decent seasons. He's got a NTC right after that. If you think you're getting a decent return I think you'll be in for a surprise, unless you're taking cap back as well.

With all the craziness surrounding the D Free agents, Trouba still is the 10th highest paid defenseman in the NHL. The only two defensemen signed for more than him were Cale Makar and Dougie Hamilton who are superior players and first pairing d-men

With the exception of Devon Toews, Mackenzie Weegar and Brett Pesche there's no defensemen UFA eligible the next three years that will come close to clipping Trouba's cap hit.

The saving grace is he gets paid 6m each of his last two seasons but he's still going to be seen as a cap dump

 

[jay from jersey]

Trouba's got a NMC for two seasons after this one so he's not going anywhere, especially if he has decent seasons. He's got a NTC right after that. If you think you're getting a decent return I think you'll be in for a surprise, unless you're taking cap back as well.

With all the craziness surrounding the D Free agents, Trouba still is the 10th highest paid defenseman in the NHL. The only two defensemen signed for more than him were Cale Makar and Dougie Hamilton who are superior players and first pairing d-men

With the exception of Devon Toews, Mackenzie Weegar and Brett Pesche there's no defensemen UFA eligible the next three years that will come close to clipping Trouba's cap hit.

The saving grace is he gets paid 6m each of his last two seasons but he's still going to be seen as a cap dump

why would he be seen as a cap dump if he’s playing 20 min a night on a playoff team???
He absolutely has value at 29-30 years old with only 2 seasons left....
Salaries will continue to go up, so will the cap presumably..
Trouba has be an absolute beast...
Having only 2-3 years left on his deal would be a an asset, not a negative for any playoff team looking to trade for him.
Jones and nurse also signed big deals as well.
At most trouba is 1-1.5 mill overpaid, and that’s because NYR bought a majority of his UFA years throughout his entire 20s...
Trouba has been largely our best/most consistent D on most nights this season.
Big mobile D that can put up points and play physical, always have a demand...
Players are also often moved when the have a NMC, as long as they approve the deal. In that instance, it certainly has an affect on the return value, but if all the rangers want to do is move out the cap hit, that can be done as well.
Trouba is a top 4 D on most/nearly all nhl teams.

 

[Roo Returns]

Rangers aren't trading Schneider.

This is not because Rangers fans think he's the second coming of Rod Langway, it's because he's on year one of a three year ELC, skates well, has size, and gives them incredible bang for buck. Cap room next season is going to be sparse for them.

The Rangers best chance to win a Cup is not this season despite all the cap room. Their third line needs works. A lot. They can remake it at the deadline this year, and then have a few ELCs coming over the next 2-3 years depending on how Berrard/Cullye/Othmann acclimate to the pro game.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

why would he be seen as a cap dump if he’s playing 20 min a night on a playoff team???
He absolutely has value at 29-30 years old with only 2 seasons left....
Salaries will continue to go up, so will the cap presumably..
Trouba has be an absolute beast...
Having only 2-3 years left on his deal would be a an asset, not a negative for any playoff team looking to trade for him.
Jones and nurse also signed big deals as well.
At most trouba is 1-1.5 mill overpaid, and that’s because NYR bought a majority of his UFA years throughout his entire 20s...
Trouba has been largely our best/most consistent D on most nights this season.
Big mobile D that can put up points and play physical, always have a demand

He's at LEAST two years from being traded. He won't have as much value as you think, especially when the whole league will know that the Rangers "need' to get rid of him.

It begs the question, if he's so good and such a warrior, why would a playoff team want to so eagerly ditch him during their contention window? If the answer is "cap hit" then yeah, his value takes a hit.

No team dangles their best and most consistent 2nd pairing d that can put up points and plays physical without their being some sort of issue, which is his caq hit is a problem. Not every team in the league is going to have 8m available for a 2nd pairing d-man who they also have to give up "assets" or "worth".

Pavel Buchnevich was traded for what, a 2nd and a 3rd line agitating forward? You think Trouba's going to get more than that?

 

[jay from jersey]

He's at LEAST two years from being traded. He won't have as much value as you think, especially when the whole league will know that the Rangers "need' to get rid of him.

It begs the question, if he's so good and such a warrior, why would a playoff team want to so eagerly ditch him during their contention window? If the answer is "cap hit" then yeah, his value takes a hit.

No team dangles their best and most consistent 2nd pairing d that can put up points and plays physical without their being some sort of issue, which is his caq hit is a problem. Not every team in the league is going to have 8m available for a 2nd pairing d-man who they also have to give up "assets" or "worth".

Pavel Buchnevich was traded for what, a 2nd and a 3rd line agitating forward? You think Trouba's going to get more than that?

you trade him because you literally have a way cheaper version in Schneider ready to step up and take his minutes.

buch/trouba apples and oranges.
PB should have likely brought back more, every ranger fan knew it. Market was also flooded with wingers in UFA/trades.....
Buch also needed a long term new deal.

I’m not saying trouba will bring back more, I said the rangers will have no problem moving him and his cap hit when then want/need to...

Trouba has put up 50 pts before....
He’s welcomed his new role with NYR as more of a stay at home presence, PK, 2PP role....
There will likely be more then 1 suitor looking to add D like that...
We’ve seen worst contracts/cap hits moved, for players who don’t contribute as much as trouba does.

 

[One Winged Angel]

He's at LEAST two years from being traded. He won't have as much value as you think, especially when the whole league will know that the Rangers "need' to get rid of him.

It begs the question, if he's so good and such a warrior, why would a playoff team want to so eagerly ditch him during their contention window? If the answer is "cap hit" then yeah, his value takes a hit.

No team dangles their best and most consistent 2nd pairing d that can put up points and plays physical without their being some sort of issue, which is his caq hit is a problem. Not every team in the league is going to have 8m available for a 2nd pairing d-man who they also have to give up "assets" or "worth".

Pavel Buchnevich was traded for what, a 2nd and a 3rd line agitating forward? You think Trouba's going to get more than that?

Tell us you're an Islander fan without saying you're an Islander fan.

 

[One Winged Angel]

you trade him because you literally have a way cheaper version in Schneider ready to step up and take his minutes.

buch/trouba apples and oranges.
PB should have likely brought back more, every ranger fan knew it. Market was also flooded with wingers in UFA/trades.....
Buch also needed a long term new deal.

I’m not saying trouba will bring back more, I said the rangers will have no problem moving him and his cap hit when then want/need to...

Trouba has put up 50 pts before....
He’s welcomed his new role with NYR as more of a stay at home presence, PK, 2PP role....
There will likely be more then 1 suitor looking to add D like that...
We’ve seen worst contracts/cap hits moved, for players who don’t contribute as much as trouba does.

We literally just saw one play last night.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Tell us you're an Islander fan without saying you're an Islander fan.

Not sure what that has to do with anything. Any knowledgeable hockey fan can say “Well, they sorta have to trade him at some point, he makes a ton and is second pairing, why would they expect any decent return”

This is the same franchise that is saying Brendan Schneider isn’t on the table for JT Miller, a superior player who’s younger and signed for two more years at 33% less than Trouba.

Yet Trouba’s value is going to be worth a good return?

Tell me you’re a Rangers fan without telling me you’re a Rangers fan.

 

[Roo Returns]

Not sure what that has to do with anything. Any knowledgeable hockey fan can say “Well, they sorta have to trade him at some point, he makes a ton and is second pairing, why would they expect any decent return”

This is the same franchise that is saying Brendan Schneider isn’t on the table for JT Miller, a superior player who’s younger and signed for two more years at 33% less than Trouba.

Yet Trouba’s value is going to be worth a good return?

Tell me you’re a Rangers fan without telling me you’re a Rangers fan.

I see the snarky back and forth but whether or not you like the Islanders, Canadians, Kraken, or Atlanta Flames/Thrashers (lol) it's never absolute.

The cap will change in 2-3 years, the D Corp of the Rangers as a unit only starts to become pricey next year, and Trouba still gets 1-3 D minutes wise.

Trouba and JT Miller don't have anything to do with each other at this point. JT Miller and Ryan Strome do.

Trouba's value during the summer of 2024 is TBD.

 

[jay from jersey]

Not sure what that has to do with anything. Any knowledgeable hockey fan can say “Well, they sorta have to trade him at some point, he makes a ton and is second pairing, why would they expect any decent return”

This is the same franchise that is saying Brendan Schneider isn’t on the table for JT Miller, a superior player who’s younger and signed for two more years at 33% less than Trouba.

Yet Trouba’s value is going to be worth a good return?

Tell me you’re a Rangers fan without telling me you’re a Rangers fan.

miller has a little over a year until he’s making more then trouba. And he’s older as well....
Your reaching. No team would trade 5-7 years of Schneider at cost control for q.5 years for miller after Schneider has demonstrated what he can do at the nhl level. Not happening....
Not too mention, if Schneider is dealt, moving trouba becomes harder because we’ll have no one capable of playing that style filling the void vacated by trouba..

please. Let me know how many 6’3 220 D men that are mobile, can play 20+ minutes a night on top 4 of a playoff team, capable of putting up anywhere between 35-45 pts (depending if they use him on the PP or not) as well as PK??? And hits like a truck???
What are they paid? How many are available?
In their mid-late 20’s with 2-3 years left on their current contract??

trouba just turned 28. He’s not exactly old. Hes the old man of the NYR Defense, but not old by league standards.

if the rangers weren’t lucky enough to have Schneider at the stage in development he is now, NYR wouldn’t even contemplate moving trouba.
But Schneider has arrived. After another full season, he should be able to assume that role.
Logic would dictate moving trouba and his cap hit at that point in time...

 

[One Winged Angel]

Not sure what that has to do with anything. Any knowledgeable hockey fan can say “Well, they sorta have to trade him at some point, he makes a ton and is second pairing, why would they expect any decent return”

If you're not sure as to what that has to do with anything, you should probably stop trolling Ranger threads.

This is the same franchise that is saying Brendan Schneider isn’t on the table for JT Miller, a superior player who’s younger and signed for two more years at 33% less than Trouba.

JT Miller is only signed for one more year after this and Schneider is going to be Trouba's replacement on the right side behind Fox. If you can't comprehend this, that's not our problem, that's your problem.

Unless you want to tell me that you'd move Dobson for Miller.

Yet Trouba’s value is going to be worth a good return?

You insinuate that the Rangers would have to pay to move Trouba. The poster said that wouldn't be the case and that Trouba is having a better season than you're giving credit to. He's on pace for just under 40 points despite not getting much PP time, as the 2nd unit gets about 20-30 seconds per chance, if they're lucky and he still plays almost 23 minutes a night, effectively.

Tell me you’re a Rangers fan without telling me you’re a Rangers fan.

Ah yes, the old "I'm rubber, you're glue" tactic.

 

[Canuck86]

I can NOT wait till March 22nd...then FINALLY the whining and bitching about proposals and values of players can fukking stop and everyone can go outside and breath in some fresh fukking air!!

Good god, people taking what a poster says online FAR too serious...even if its a hockey forum there is just non stop hatred, this world is DOOMED, enjoy your time while your alive people and do NOT sweat the SMALL stuff!!

1 team wins the Stanley Cup and 31 Fail each AND every year...

 

[NewEraGM]

"If the Rangers decide that their first-rounder should be spent on a defenseman (highly unlikely, but hey, we have to discuss it), Mark Giordano is on their radar."

Same article, for all those who keep acting like the Rangers need to waste a 1st round pick on an anchor like Ben Chiarot (who, btw, isn't mentioned once in the article)

Ben Chiarot has more goals than Adam Fox. Ben Chiarot would be the top goal scoring Dman on the leafs.
Whether you like it or not, chiarot is getting a 1st and I think it’s going to be from STL OR Jake Neighbours as the centrepiece in the deal

 

[NewEraGM]

I can NOT wait till March 22nd...then FINALLY the whining and bitching about proposals and values of players can fukking stop and everyone can go outside and breath in some fresh fukking air!!

Good god, people taking what a poster says online FAR too serious...even if its a hockey forum there is just non stop hatred, this world is DOOMED, enjoy your time while your alive people and do NOT sweat the SMALL stuff!!

1 team wins the Stanley Cup and 31 Fail each AND every year...

Lol agreed!!! Can’t wait till chiarot gets a 1st. That’s the only thing I want to see

 

[bernmeister]

Trouba's got a NMC for two seasons after this one so he's not going anywhere, especially if he has decent seasons. He's got a NTC right after that. If you think you're getting a decent return I think you'll be in for a surprise, unless you're taking cap back as well.

With all the craziness surrounding the D Free agents, Trouba still is the 10th highest paid defenseman in the NHL. The only two defensemen signed for more than him were Cale Makar and Dougie Hamilton who are superior players and first pairing d-men

With the exception of Devon Toews, Mackenzie Weegar and Brett Pesche there's no defensemen UFA eligible the next three years that will come close to clipping Trouba's cap hit.

The saving grace is he gets paid 6m each of his last two seasons but he's still going to be seen as a cap dump

Trouba controls his fate until nmc expires.
He certainly can wait until the last minute, and then go where NY decides to send him, within his list of teams to which he may be traded, or he can work with us earlier and we bend over backwards to sending him to a preferred relocation if that makes sense.

NY may have to eat some of his cap hit, maybe not, depends.

why would he be seen as a cap dump if he’s playing 20 min a night on a playoff team???
He absolutely has value at 29-30 years old with only 2 seasons left....
Salaries will continue to go up, so will the cap presumably..
Trouba has be an absolute beast...
Having only 2-3 years left on his deal would be a an asset, not a negative for any playoff team looking to trade for him.
Jones and nurse also signed big deals as well.
At most trouba is 1-1.5 mill overpaid, and that’s because NYR bought a majority of his UFA years throughout his entire 20s...
Trouba has been largely our best/most consistent D on most nights this season.
Big mobile D that can put up points and play physical, always have a demand...
Players are also often moved when the have a NMC, as long as they approve the deal. In that instance, it certainly has an affect on the return value, but if all the rangers want to do is move out the cap hit, that can be done as well.
Trouba is a top 4 D on most/nearly all nhl teams.

generally agree w/most of this^

Not sure what that has to do with anything. Any knowledgeable hockey fan can say “Well, they sorta have to trade him at some point, he makes a ton and is second pairing, why would they expect any decent return”

This is the same franchise that is saying Brendan Schneider isn’t on the table for JT Miller, a superior player who’s younger and signed for two more years at 33% less than Trouba.

Yet Trouba’s value is going to be worth a good return?

Tell me you’re a Rangers fan without telling me you’re a Rangers fan.

You conveniently ignore age and cap.
JTM cannot come here we can't afford him, if we trade for him that will open a Pandora's box resulting in forced sale of LaF/Kakko at reduced return, so no, no a gazillion times no.

Schneider is needed to replace Trouba when he goes asap regardless as the huge Fox + Zib deals have us in a corner $ wise, and we almost can't trade anybody.

miller has a little over a year until he’s making more then trouba. And he’s older as well....
Your reaching. No team would trade 5-7 years of Schneider at cost control for q.5 years for miller after Schneider has demonstrated what he can do at the nhl level. Not happening....
Not too mention, if Schneider is dealt, moving trouba becomes harder because we’ll have no one capable of playing that style filling the void vacated by trouba..

please. Let me know how many 6’3 220 D men that are mobile, can play 20+ minutes a night on top 4 of a playoff team, capable of putting up anywhere between 35-45 pts (depending if they use him on the PP or not) as well as PK??? And hits like a truck???
What are they paid? How many are available?
In their mid-late 20’s with 2-3 years left on their current contract??

trouba just turned 28. He’s not exactly old. Hes the old man of the NYR Defense, but not old by league standards.

if the rangers weren’t lucky enough to have Schneider at the stage in development he is now, NYR wouldn’t even contemplate moving trouba.
But Schneider has arrived. After another full season, he should be able to assume that role.
Logic would dictate moving trouba and his cap hit at that point in time...

Da bold

 

[bernmeister]

He's at LEAST two years from being traded. He won't have as much value as you think, especially when the whole league will know that the Rangers "need' to get rid of him.

It begs the question, if he's so good and such a warrior, why would a playoff team want to so eagerly ditch him during their contention window? If the answer is "cap hit" then yeah, his value takes a hit.

No team dangles their best and most consistent 2nd pairing d that can put up points and plays physical without their being some sort of issue, which is his caq hit is a problem. Not every team in the league is going to have 8m available for a 2nd pairing d-man who they also have to give up "assets" or "worth".

Pavel Buchnevich was traded for what, a 2nd and a 3rd line agitating forward? You think Trouba's going to get more than that?

bold is incorrect.
He is a maximum of 2 yrs, not a minimum of 2, after this

 

[CupSeeker]

Trouba's got a NMC for two seasons after this one so he's not going anywhere, especially if he has decent seasons. He's got a NTC right after that. If you think you're getting a decent return I think you'll be in for a surprise, unless you're taking cap back as well.

With all the craziness surrounding the D Free agents, Trouba still is the 10th highest paid defenseman in the NHL. The only two defensemen signed for more than him were Cale Makar and Dougie Hamilton who are superior players and first pairing d-men

With the exception of Devon Toews, Mackenzie Weegar and Brett Pesche there's no defensemen UFA eligible the next three years that will come close to clipping Trouba's cap hit.

The saving grace is he gets paid 6m each of his last two seasons but he's still going to be seen as a cap dump

Starting a team and I have to choose between Trouba and Dougie Hamilton. Trouba every time. Dougie is a below average defender. Trouba is above average defender, tough as nails, a leader with offensive skills. This one isn't even close. Hamilton is a one trick pony.

 

[CupSeeker]

Ben Chiarot has more goals than Adam Fox. Ben Chiarot would be the top goal scoring Dman on the leafs.
Whether you like it or not, chiarot is getting a 1st and I think it’s going to be from STL OR Jake Neighbours as the centrepiece in the deal

Chiarot has more goals than a lot of defenseman. Why compare him to Adam Fox? Fox is great, Chiarot is not; no comparison.

 

[CupSeeker]

He's at LEAST two years from being traded. He won't have as much value as you think, especially when the whole league will know that the Rangers "need' to get rid of him.

It begs the question, if he's so good and such a warrior, why would a playoff team want to so eagerly ditch him during their contention window? If the answer is "cap hit" then yeah, his value takes a hit.

No team dangles their best and most consistent 2nd pairing d that can put up points and plays physical without their being some sort of issue, which is his caq hit is a problem. Not every team in the league is going to have 8m available for a 2nd pairing d-man who they also have to give up "assets" or "worth".

Pavel Buchnevich was traded for what, a 2nd and a 3rd line agitating forward? You think Trouba's going to get more than that?

Who said Trouba is being dangled? I agree, you don't dangle Jacob Trouba as you head into the playoffs.

 

[RickChartraw]

Ben Chiarot has more goals than Adam Fox. Ben Chiarot would be the top goal scoring Dman on the leafs.
Whether you like it or not, chiarot is getting a 1st and I think it’s going to be from STL OR Jake Neighbours as the centrepiece in the deal

you sure about this?