Proposal: NYR - CAR

[MinJaBen]

Fox, Fleury, Buffalo's 2nd for Zibanejad.

 

[QJL]

I have no problem with the rest of the post, but how do you or anyone of us, for that matter, know that Hayes is a "picky camper" and where he would or would not re-sign, obvious cellar dwellers aside? Carolina wouldn't be one, adding a Kevin Hayes.

My thinking here stems from his unwillingness to sign with a cup favorite franchise like Chicago post-college, a team full of superstars that drafted him. I’ll admit this is just an assumption.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Fox, Fleury, Buffalo's 2nd for Zibanejad.

Rangers have no reason to trade Zibby and that offer would easily be beat if they decided to move him.

 

[bernmeister]

Fox, Fleury, Buffalo's 2nd for Zibanejad.

not enuf thanx anyway

 

[bernmeister]

It’s the same as McAvoy. Canes will burn one ELC year at the end of this year and Fox plays next year which = 2 years. Taking the UFA route he starts playing in 2020-2021 which coincides with the potential lockout year.

Just because Fox “might” do something doesn’t mean the Canes should react. Fox was a key addition to the Calgary deal for a reason. All they have to go on is the data in front of them. Fox did not want to play in Western Canada for Calgary. All indications thus far have pointed towards Fox being happy with Carolina. Fox’s primary concern is playing next year so the Canes need to make a spot for him.

no general dissent here, except as to bold, it is still a risk IMO leaning vs that he signs with Carolina.
Guessing here, but principal reason I suspect is logjam ahead. Moving Pesce for a top guy and dumping Faulk changes that in a hurry, but I don't think one can assume that, either.

It's a fine line between not overreacting and falsely anticipating what Fox MIGHT do on one hand, and not reading the immediately visible tea leaves on the other.

Sorry bern, as others have mentioned, we're not in a position to take on rentals. It's too much risk on both sides, and I'd much rather hold onto McKeown (who I think should be playing over TVR and Fleury at this point) and Fox than hope whatever we'd get back from shipping Hayes and Zuc back out are equitable assets (unlikely).

Well McKeown, I anticipated you'd want to hang on to him.

As to Fox, not to beat the horse, if it is reasonable to project Hayes + Zib
CORRECTION EDIT: ZUC NOT ZIB
are stopgaps then = lots of swag at the deadline, it's a false concern as to 'rental' being a cost for Canes.
However, I agree with apparent consensus that it boils down to what you think Fox will do, where will he go, what terms will he issue be accepted for him to sign, etc.
Other than being close enough but not right in eye of the storm in boston, NY is basically offering possible immediate advancement to varsity squad effective next year, with full unfeathered opportunity to get to 1RD --- and 1RD $ --- faster than most other options, and to be part of an emerging core which, with Kravtsov and possibly Panarin nxt year, is well on its way.

We will wait and see on Fox.
Thanks for your constructive comment

best
b

 

[TGWL]

Terrible, terrible offer for the Canes. Zero interest in rentals.

The Canes don’t need two rentals for their current bottom-5 talent team. They will tank, collect a good draft pick, and try again next year. Fox is the only significant appealing piece in this trade for Carolina as he is the only long-term piece.

Trade your rentals to a team that is competing.

Please stop that nonsense. They're too close to being in the playoff mix to just toss away the rest of the season right now. They're not going to "tank" and collect a good pick, purposely. Having these 2 players makes the Canes better. While the package might not be what you want to part with, and that's understandable, Fox is a very appealing prospect, but Canes aren't tossing in the towel on the rest of the season.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

As to Fox, not to beat the horse, if it is reasonable to project Hayes + Zib are stopgaps...

You are the only one that thinks Zib is a stopgap.

 

[CheMxDawG]

Please stop that nonsense. They're too close to in the a playoff mix to just toss away the rest of the season right now. They're not going to "tank" and collect a good pick, purposely. Having these 2 players makes the Canes better. While the package might not be what you want to part with, and that's understandable, Fox is a very appealing prospect, but Canes aren't tossing in the towel on the rest of the season.

We're 1 point out of 3rd place in the metro with some key injuries (Ferland and Staal have concussions, Pesce just recovered from his injury and Rask missed the first quarter) I wouldn't say this is a lost season just yet.

 

[bernmeister]

You are the only one that thinks Zib is a stopgap.

very funny.
Obviously a miscue
clearly from content of thread I meant Zuc not Zib

 

[bernmeister]

We're 1 point out of 3rd place in the metro with some key injuries (Ferland and Staal have concussions, Pesce just recovered from his injury and Rask missed the first quarter) I wouldn't say this is a lost season just yet.

And that's part of the beauty of my prop.

Get production until the deadline, then if percentages suggest is the best play, then unload for rental value.
keeps you in it.
never know who sustains what injuries as season goes on

 

[One Winged Angel]

My thinking here stems from his unwillingness to sign with a cup favorite franchise like Chicago post-college, a team full of superstars that drafted him. I’ll admit this is just an assumption.

That was moreso about getting playing time. The Rangers just about guaranteed it for him. From what I recall and I could be wrong on Chicago's side of things, but from what I was reading, they weren't willing to do the same.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

And that's part of the beauty of my prop.

Get production until the deadline, then if percentages suggest is the best play, then unload for rental value.
keeps you in it.
never know who sustains what injuries as season goes on

No NHL GM makes a trade and thinks "Oh hey I can flip these assets at the deadline if we suck." Its almost as ridiculous a notion as suggesting an owner should purchase a players home in order to get him to waive his movement clause.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I don't think NYR are getting the value they want out of that deal, but I also don't think it does enough to interest the Canes. No interest in Georgiev, we have plenty of mediocre goaltenders in the system right now, anything short of a proven/bordering starter is pointless. As for Fox, the way he is performing right now and his potential, I don't think you give that up for 2 rentals (as others have said, can't base their value on re-signing or deadline flips)...and I doubt McKeown gets either Hayes or Zuc on his own. Additionally, what the Canes need is higher end talent, not more 2nd line players, we have more than enough middle-six type players. MAYBE something around Hayes <> McKeown+ ?

 

[QJL]

That was moreso about getting playing time. The Rangers just about guaranteed it for him. From what I recall and I could be wrong on Chicago's side of things, but from what I was reading, they weren't willing to do the same.

It’s going to be hard to dig it up but can say with certainty Hayes debunked that in an interview saying he specifically wanted to come to the Rangers. Of course we can’t know the behind the scenes, but that he made it clear he was not promised a spot.

 

[One Winged Angel]

It’s going to be hard to dig it up but can say with certainty Hayes debunked that in an interview saying he specifically wanted to come to the Rangers. Of course we can’t know the behind the scenes, but that he made it clear he was not promised a spot.

Maybe one of those after-the-fact interviews, which I wouldn't put much stock into.

 

[Ola]

I don’t think you understand the Fox situation well. He would not re-enter the Draft, he would become a “college UFA” during the lockout year.

Canes will offer to accelerate his ELC 2 years beyond what any other team can offer. If he doesn’t accept that then they will look to move him this offseason. The Canes will have a year to explore options while he destroys the NCAA. Currently all signs point to him signing.

What the Canes definitely won’t do is trade Fox before he can even tell them “No”. At least not for two rentals who might be worth a 1st or a 2nd each.

You are right on everything, except the ‘he can’t even say no yet’-part.

Of course he can let the Canes know what his plans are. Do I think it’s likely that he will force his way to UFA? Nope, but it does happen. And it’s hard to deny that Fox situation is starting to resemble Hayes’ and Vesey’s situations pretty much. Like it must have been over a year ago I heard some chatter about how Fox was a NYR fan and wanted to stay in college until he became a UFA and could sign in NY.

I think a trade by NYR for Fox is unlikely though. Either he is dead set to come here — in which case NYR can sign him as a UFA. Or he isn’t dead set to go to NYR — and he will sign with the Canes.

 

[Ola]

That was moreso about getting playing time. The Rangers just about guaranteed it for him. From what I recall and I could be wrong on Chicago's side of things, but from what I was reading, they weren't willing to do the same.

This is to an extent me speculating — but I think it’s clear as day that Chicago wanted Hayes to become a PF winger and Hayes wanted to play center. Chicago pushes him and 99/100 times it probably works but Hayes held his ground, he has so many guys around him that probably supported him and so forth. His relationship with Chicago soured and he decided to pick a spot that would fit his bill.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Well, there are plenty of New Yorkers in Raleigh who will chant ZUUUUUUU! all the time for him so there is that.