Nylander's Holdout is About a lot More Than Willy and the Leafs

[NoName]

The Leafs look like a legit force without him in the lineup.

If they can swing the right trade I think their odds of hoisting a Cup grow tremendously over already decent odds to begin with.

Agreed. The issue is finding “the right trade” is the challenge. This whole extended process has at peast shown Dubas isn’t going to trade Nylander for pennies on the dollar, nor should he considering the fact that the Leafs own his (non-arbitration) rights and it is now abundantly clear no other team is willing to offer-sheet him the contract he wants and give the Leafs all those picks in compensation. Dubas needs to find a trade partner willing to send a part of similar value that helps Toronto in the playoffs more than Nylander himself would (which likely means a blue-liner), and that is not an easy task.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Agreed. The issue is finding “the right trade” is the challenge. This whole extended process has at peast shown Dubas isn’t going to trade Nylander for pennies on the dollar, nor should he considering the fact that the Leafs own his (non-arbitration) rights and it is now abundantly clear no other team is willing to offer-sheet him the contract he wants and give the Leafs all those picks in compensation. Dubas needs to find a trade partner willing to send a part of similar value that helps Toronto in the playoffs more than Nylander himself would (which likely means a blue-liner), and that is not an easy task.

No, there is no need to under sell on a player like Nylander. The Leafs hold the cards in this. If they do choose the trade route and under sell, that’s on them.

 

[BLONG7]

I think Nylander's situation is unique because it has become quite obvious that he doesn't want to play 4th fiddle to Matthews, Marner, and Tavares. The Leafs will likely trade him to upgrade their D and Nylander's new team will give him the money and recognition he deserves.

My 2 cents.

People have been saying pretty much this, since JT signed...makes sense............most Leaf fans are starting to realize this also.

 

[NoName]

No, there is no need to under sell on a player like Nylander. The Leafs hold the cards in this. If they do choose the trade route and under sell, that’s on them.

Yep, there is no worse mark against a GM in my mind then to make an unnecessary panic move. Dubas as a rookie GM is definitely a bit of an unknown here, but so far he has held his nerve.

 

[BLONG7]

Yep, there is no worse mark against a GM in my mind then to make an unnecessary panic move. Dubas as a rookie GM is definitely a bit of an unknown here, but so far he has held his nerve.

The cap is going to cause major issues for the Leafs, Nylander is just the 1st casualty of all this...........there will be more. When Dubas chose JT he said no to Willy and a couple of others.

 

[Craig Button]

The cap is going to cause major issues for the Leafs, Nylander is just the 1st casualty of all this...........there will be more. When Dubas chose JT he said no to Willy and a couple of others.

No.
Mylander should easily be signed for what he's worth. Which is less than 6.5M.
Unfortunately he thinks he's worth more

 

[CupsOverCash]

The reason why young and skilled players are becoming a large trend in the league is not only because they are young, skilled and fast but its also because they are cheaper. Thus a reason why Toronto wants to keep Nylanders deal down on his second deal. As well as they can that is. Thats why this is where it is. Nylander knows though that he is a valuable player and knows he is worth a lot. Players still have the right to do what hes doing. Its just smarter for a GM to get em cheaper before the bigger usually pricier UFA deal kicks in.

 

[mondo3]

If an RFA signs a deal with another league, do the NHL RFA length get extended?

 

[NoName]

The cap is going to cause major issues for the Leafs, Nylander is just the 1st casualty of all this...........there will be more. When Dubas chose JT he said no to Willy and a couple of others.

On paper they can keep the core together and make it work, even with Nylander, although Dubas will have to work some magic to cram them all in. Lesser pieces like Jake Gardiner definitely have to be let walk however to sign the main players.

However if Nylander does end up being traded in exchange for lower cost assets (eg picks and/or a guy on a lesser contract) then they obviously have a lot more flexibility and I doubt the Leafs will have much in the way of cap problems. The idea that Toronto would have to sacrifice Nylandet and another core piece for cap reasons just doesn’t make sense.

When Dubas bought Tavares he said no to JVR ($7 million and Bozak $5 million). In fact Tavares and an ELC guy like Jonsson pretty much exactly equal the cost it would have taken just for Toronto to retain JVR and Bozak. I would say Toronto made the right choice both for now (especially with Matthews out a month) and long-term.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

If an RFA signs a deal with another league, do the NHL RFA length get extended?

I think to a certain point. Nashville went through it with Radulov.

 

[NoName]

No.
Mylander should easily be signed for what he's worth. Which is less than 6.5M.
Unfortunately he thinks he's worth more

Can’t really blame a player to much for trying to get as much money as he can, not everyone is going to be willing to make personal sacrifices to give his team the best chance to win. Also can’t blame a team for doing everything they can to ice the best team possible, which can mean playing hard-ball to avoid overpaying a guy they already have a lot of leverage over (non-arbitration RFA). It will be interesting to see what happens as that December 1 deadline approaches and Nylander faces losing over $6 million at once... just to be in the exact same position next year.

 

[BruinsBtn]

If an RFA signs a deal with another league, do the NHL RFA length get extended?

I think it's 7 years in NHL or age 27; whatever is earliest.

 

[NoName]

If an RFA signs a deal with another league, do the NHL RFA length get extended?

I think it's 7 years in NHL or age 27; whatever is earliest.

RFAs seem to get royally screwed under the current CBA. Arbitration rights are heavily restricted, sitting out has no effect, and most importantly, offer-sheets are so costly (and limited to about 5 year max because that is how their AAV is calculated) that they are exceptionally rare.

Leafs are leveraging those advantages here and other teams have done similar in the past with young guys coming off ELCs.

 

[SotasicA]

Nylander is losing money every day. If the Leafs just coast all season without Nylander and find success, what does he do?

The reason they would want to pay him is to win hockey games, but if they win without him... the Leafs save money by not paying him, and he loses money he will never get back.

What if it drags on until the summer? An offer sheet can solve the situation as that forces the Leafs hand. They will obviously match, unless it's for stupid money.

 

[NoName]

Nylander is losing money every day. If the Leafs just coast all season without Nylander and find success, what does he do?

The reason they would want to pay him is to win hockey games, but if they win without him... the Leafs save money by not paying him, and he loses money he will never get back.

What if it drags on until the summer? An offer sheet can solve the situation as that forces the Leafs hand. They will obviously match, unless it's for stupid money.

The other issue is that Nyalnder has to actually accept that offersheet. Meaning it has to be substantially more than what the Leafs are offering him (about $6.5 x 8 years from what I saw) and that offersheet has to only be 5 years max, given offersheet rules (which means the team overpaying him wouldn’t even be buying much in the way of UFA years). Hence why we haven’t seen an offer-sheet.

 

[Dustin]

The other issue is that Nyalnder has to actually accept that offersheet. Meaning it has to be substantially more than what the Leafs are offering him (about $6.5 x 8 years from what I saw) and that offersheet has to only be 5 years max, given offersheet rules (which means the team overpaying him wouldn’t even be buying much in the way of UFA years). Hence why we haven’t seen an offer-sheet.

They would be buying 0 UFA years in fact. Furthermore they would be overpaying Nylander by about 1.5 to 2 every year for those 5 years and on top of that giving up a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

 

[ImNeverWrong]

Except after December 1 the equation radically changes for Nylander if he doesn’t sign before then he stands to lose the entire $6-6.5 million the Leafs were offering him for this season. At which point, even if he manages to push the Leafs for an AAV higher than their original offer he is still losing more money just by missing a full year’s salary. Add to that Nylander sitting out a whole season hurts his value in negotiations with the Leafs if anything, so the odds of Toronto being willing to lose him for a season and fold and five him a massive contract that would at least cover the lost wages from this season is... unlikely to say the least. The Leafs have the leverage here, and that only becomes more so as that deadline approaches.

he can still sign in europe i believe, also there's just speculation we really have no clue what the leafs are offering him. But look at it like this, if nylander is looking for 7.5 over 6 years and the leafs are offering 6 million for 6....that's 9 million in total separating the two. If he feels that he doesn't have any leverage and takes a middling offer, he will leave money on the table. He is justified by holding out if the difference between the two parties is greater in totality than a single season average the leafs are offering. So no, I don't see the leafs as having much leverage. Nylander and his camp are of sure of themselves. Quite frankly I applaud them.

 

[NoName]

he can still sign in europe i believe, also there's just speculation we really have no clue what the leafs are offering him. But look at it like this, if nylander is looking for 7.5 over 6 years and the leafs are offering 6 million for 6....that's 9 million in total separating the two. If he feels that he doesn't have any leverage and takes a middling offer, he will leave money on the table. He is justified by holding out if the difference between the two parties is greater in totality than a single season average the leafs are offering. So no, I don't see the leafs as having much leverage. Nylander and his camp are of sure of themselves. Quite frankly I applaud them.

How much does playing in Europe pay, I doubt anywhere near $6 million. Also, if he holds out the whole season, why would that make the Leafs any more likely to overpay him next season? In fact sitting out from the NHL for a season hurts his value to the Leafs if anything. All that is guaranteed if he doesn’t sign by December 1 is he loses out on $6million+ for thos season. That is a tough sell and a risky gamble to say the least.

Under his current RFA status Nylander can’t go to an arbitrator, no one is offersheeting him since the cost is too high, which means he can only sign with Toronto if he wants to play in the NHL and if he doesn’t sign by December 1 he misses out on a full years salary. Yeah, I would say Toronto has the leverage here. They would be foolish to fold and pay Nylander the above market value contract he is demanding.

 

[McVespa99]

Actually I heard that he is asking for a reasonable 5.75 Mill on a long term deal.
The hold up is that his hair is asking for 2.25 million and is not willing to negotiate off that.

 

[BLONG7]

On paper they can keep the core together and make it work, even with Nylander, although Dubas will have to work some magic to cram them all in. Lesser pieces like Jake Gardiner definitely have to be let walk however to sign the main players.

However if Nylander does end up being traded in exchange for lower cost assets (eg picks and/or a guy on a lesser contract) then they obviously have a lot more flexibility and I doubt the Leafs will have much in the way of cap problems. The idea that Toronto would have to sacrifice Nylandet and another core piece for cap reasons just doesn’t make sense.

When Dubas bought Tavares he said no to JVR ($7 million and Bozak $5 million). In fact Tavares and an ELC guy like Jonsson pretty much exactly equal the cost it would have taken just for Toronto to retain JVR and Bozak. I would say Toronto made the right choice both for now (especially with Matthews out a month) and long-term.

When Matthews and Marner get 10M dollar raises, it's gonna get tight...changes are coming...

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Due to the nature and speed in which the NHL is evolving this contract is about a lot more than just William Nylander and the Toronto Maple Leafs. The last several years the league has seen an incredible influx of young talent that have proven to be impact players much sooner than previous decades. This season might see more players in the first 5 years of their pro career in the top 60 of scoring than ever before. Traditionally players coming off an ELC are usually signed to reasonable mid term mid cost deals, usually a contract that doesn't end in them being a UFA. That third or fourth contract is most often seen as the payday, as these players have payed their dues and established themselves after many years of productive play. There are some notable exceptions(McDavid, Draisaitl, Eichel) that can be said to have changed the market, but for the most part players of this caliber aren't usually getting 8 years. Some recent examples of players on good money deals during their RFA status and what are likely their prime production years are; Mark Scheifle, Nathan MacKinnon, Alexander Barkov, Brad Marchand, Filip Forsberg, and even John Tavares. Some players sign smaller bridge contracts during these years like Logan Couture, Joe Pavelski, Nikita Kucherov, and Max Pacioretty. The contracts these players signed coming off their ELCs can be said to be typical of the tradition in the NHL of placing an emphasis on "earning" a big money deal through consistent production during the RFA status.

What Nylander and his camp are recognizing is that having this kind of talented youth producing like a premier player in the NHL has become more valuable than ever before. The NHL has trended towards youth, speed, and skill over veterans who might provide more "presence". With more young players proving their worth in shorter time periods and this contract being situated in the highest of profile markets in Toronto, it will have an important impact on setting the market for the next batch of 60+ point RFAs, of which there are certain to be more and more of around the league. Getting your young talent on good term and good money is of utmost importance to an NHL franchise in a hard cap system, even with that cap increasing. Nylander and his agent are absolutely right to be holding Dubas's feet over the fire and I'm sure the rest of the league is very interested in the outcome. This is a very important contract in modelling what some of the League's other young talent are going to be looking for over the next 5+ years. Will they be willing to take less just because they are "young" and are still Restricted Free Agents? Or will they demand to be valued for what they are as possibly the most vital pieces of an NHL team's future?

How is his situation any different than Ehlers and Pasta? Who both signed reasonable deals

 

[Inmysights7]

Played with pros! He deserves his keep.... But if he accepts the cheaper deal with Matthews hurt.... TML FANS would declare this kid a god (plays well).... And it would pay huge moving forward.

 

[lawrence]

honestly Mathews>>>> Tavares and Tavares makes 11 million, how the hell are they gonna sign Matthews next summer, and sign Nylander.

In Nylaners shoes, why does he have to take a pay cut, and Tavares and maybe Matthews probably doesn't?

 

[Inmysights7]

Agreed. The issue is finding “the right trade” is the challenge. This whole extended process has at peast shown Dubas isn’t going to trade Nylander for pennies on the dollar, nor should he considering the fact that the Leafs own his (non-arbitration) rights and it is now abundantly clear no other team is willing to offer-sheet him the contract he wants and give the Leafs all those picks in compensation. Dubas needs to find a trade partner willing to send a part of similar value that helps Toronto in the playoffs more than Nylander himself would (which likely means a blue-liner), and that is not an easy task.

People have been saying pretty much this, since JT signed...makes sense............most Leaf fans are starting to realize this also.

Agreed. The issue is finding “the right trade” is the challenge. This whole extended process has at peast shown Dubas isn’t going to trade Nylander for pennies on the dollar, nor should he considering the fact that the Leafs own his (non-arbitration) rights and it is now abundantly clear no other team is willing to offer-sheet him the contract he wants and give the Leafs all those picks in compensation. Dubas needs to find a trade partner willing to send a part of similar value that helps Toronto in the playoffs more than Nylander himself would (which likely means a blue-liner), and that is not an easy task.

Agreed. The issue is finding “the right trade” is the challenge. This whole extended process has at peast shown Dubas isn’t going to trade Nylander for pennies on the dollar, nor should he considering the fact that the Leafs own his (non-arbitration) rights and it is now abundantly clear no other team is willing to offer-sheet him the contract he wants and give the Leafs all those picks in compensation. Dubas needs to find a trade partner willing to send a part of similar value that helps Toronto in the playoffs more than Nylander himself would (which likely means a blue-liner), and that is not an easy task.

Need Hyman, Tavares, Marner on same line to create offense with AM gone.
TML need to start banging opposition like there getting banged!!!!

 

[mouser]

RFAs seem to get royally screwed under the current CBA. Arbitration rights are heavily restricted, sitting out has no effect, and most importantly, offer-sheets are so costly (and limited to about 5 year max because that is how their AAV is calculated) that they are exceptionally rare.

Leafs are leveraging those advantages here and other teams have done similar in the past with young guys coming off ELCs.

RFA’s have never had it better then today. They’re getting bigger contracts, and eligible for UFA earlier then any prior time in NHL history.