Confirmed with Link: Nylander signs extension of 8 years - 11.5M AAV

[Dekes For Days]

It might work out is not a plan.

It might work out is every plan. There are zero guarantees in hockey.

 

[Apex Predator]

It might work out is every plan. There are zero guarantees in hockey.

If I go to my boss and tell them let’s do this it might work out that’s not a plan. If I say let’s do this because X Y Z reasons and have data backing up what I’m saying that’s a plan.

Anytime anyone in business hopes something might work out that’s not a good approach and usually doesn’t work. You need facts backing up and right now the leafs facts are not backing them up. To keep saying hopefully it might work out after all these years is not a plan.

 

[studebaker17]

Point had 2 of the most dominant goal scoring playoff performances of all time

That's an entirely different conversation and nothing to do with either contracts .
If anything , Brayden Point and Nylander are more comparable in contracts and career paths . Similar numbers outside the couple outlier seasons point put up big numbers albeit still never close to leading his own team in points . Hes a secondary player or had been in the reg season. Playoffs he's money.

 

[myleafs]

They've looked great the last few nights.

They have, I agree, and I enjoyed watching them.....but...and not to take too much away from those impressive games but 3 of those last 4 were against bottom 5 teams. If they can keep up that sort of play over these next couple weeks against tougher competition I will quite happy about it. However, Im not ready to plan the parade quite yet.

The leafs are a very good team but I have felt they haven't been a balanced enough team for a few years now and the results show they weren't good enough when it counted. So as it stands, what do we expect to be different this time? I root for them as I always have but with a much more cynical cautious approach regardless of how good they can look on any given night. My heart has been broken too many times with this team to just hand it over willy nilly anymore.

 

[myleafs]

I think it's as simple as MLSE has mistaken hockey for basketball (5 key players. Get one superstar and you're on your way. Get 2 and your probably making the finals at least) or for a corporation (find the best C-level executives available & pay them whatever it takes to get/keep them because the success of the company entirely rests on their shoulders. Everyone underneath is easily replaceable so they get scraps by comparison).

I do think it is likely the latter in part because star players bring big revenue just by being stars. Let's face it, many of us watch in big part because the Leafs - in particular AM, Mitch & Willie - are entertaining to watch, even if they can't win a round.

Not for me. I enjoy watching teams that play hard every night and for each other...I always have.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If I go to my boss and tell them let’s do this it might work out that’s not a plan. If I say let’s do this because X Y Z reasons and have data backing up what I’m saying that’s a plan.

They are saying let's do this because X Y Z reasons and have data backing it up. Some just refuse to accept that this is the best available plan.

 

[egd27]

Not set, but this is a pretty clear indication. Past mid-season estimates by the league have been pretty close to actual cap numbers.

That's all I'm saying.

Not that is matters much to the Leafs as the raises to 34 & 88 will far exceed the potential $4M bump

 

[capfit9]

I see a lot more floating ever since the contract was signed, I wonder why ?
Back to the old Willy.

 

[MarMarSab3]

I see a lot more floating ever since the contract was signed, I wonder why ?
Back to the old Willy.

This is sarcasm right? Please tell me it's sarcasm

 

[hockeywiz542]

Nick Kypreos: Why Maple Leafs GM Brad Treliving never had a chance in William Nylander's contract negotiations

Nylander's newly-minted $92-million deal was seen by many as a home run, especially when management didn’t appear to put up much of a fight.

www.thestar.com

The Leafs were given a hard number by Nylander's camp last summer and, after many months, they waved the white flag and hit it on the nose. If you had heard any rumblings regarding the negotiations between then and now, it would’ve been the sounds of the Leafs negotiating against themselves.

It certainly couldn’t have been easy for the newly appointed Treliving to walk head-on into high-profile contract talks with Auston Matthews and Nylander at the start of his tenure here.

Prior to Treliving becoming the team's 18th general manager, the Leafs' young guns had already set a well-established precedent for having their productive performances rewarded; money, desired term, large signing bonuses and no-movement clauses were part of the mix. Matthews and Nylander got it all. And with a good playoff run, Marner will assure himself he'll be next.

It's important to note the Leafs are known as the best and most generous organization in the NHL. Their treatment toward players, their families and the alumni is nothing but first class. If anything, they can be accused of being too generous, and it's why players like Nylander don't want to leave.

Knowing that, it makes you wonder why Leafs president Brendan Shanahan’s infamous comment in 2018 on the expectation his young talent would take less money to stay together never came to be. Quite the contrary. It’s as if they all secretly swore an oath not to leave anything on the table.

So for people who believe Treliving could have put the genie back in the bottle with Nylander's new contract, it was an unrealistic ask. Factor in the 27-year-old's consistently stellar play this season and Treliving had zero room to play hardball. It’s as if the ghost of Kyle Dubas roams the halls of Scotiabank Arena uttering the words “we can and we will” keep the core intact all over again.

For any team to successfully pitch the hometown discount card, they must first have a firm grasp of the player's personality. Matthews, Marner and Nylander have never shown any signs of vulnerability.

And this is where agents Judd Moldaver, Darren Ferris and Gross earn their rather handsome fees. It comes from getting their clients not to waver.

............

Unfortunately for Leafs management, their three guys never bought into that mindset. They trusted their agents enough to allow them to march forward.

The first real sign of it came after the Leafs signed John Tavares for $11 million a season in 2018. The organization could have used that number as an internal cap to set the table for the following contracts but the agents didn’t let them.

Did the Leafs even try to sell the Tavares signing as the internal cap max? Other teams have been able to that with their captains. Montreal recently did it with young star Cole Caufield's deal being under captain Nick Suzuki’s.

Matthews and his agent Moldaver were the first to not see it that way four years ago when he catapulted above Tavares' annual salary by $600,000. Despite Tavares's reputation as the face of the Islanders, the Matthews and Marner camps knew Tavares was no more than the third-best player on the depth chart.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Trade him before the no trade clause kicks in

 

[34]

Trade him before the no trade clause kicks in

I have a feeling this contact is bad now. They should have just let him walk

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

That's an entirely different conversation and nothing to do with either contracts .
If anything , Brayden Point and Nylander are more comparable in contracts and career paths . Similar numbers outside the couple outlier seasons point put up big numbers albeit still never close to leading his own team in points . Hes a secondary player or had been in the reg season. Playoffs he's money.

He's not a secondary player at all. And why wouldn't his playoff performances impact his contract? That's silly. He scored as much as Gretzky and helped lead them to 2 Cups.

 

[rdogg]

The ink isn't even dry and the contract already sucks

 

[ZEBROA]

Ohh noooo now its all downhill for Nylander aaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Of course there is. Just because you choose not to agree with the plan, that doesn't make the plan bad or not exist.

Yes, for one season, we will likely have four payers in the top 12 paid next season. Because we have some really good players. Not really sure why you think it matters whether one of them is a defender. We had a top 10 defensive team before this year, and it's possible to get back to that without a top-12 salary defender.

You really have no idea whether we have a 1G in the system. And while superstar goalies are certainly helpful, sometimes all you need is a hot streak from something lesser. And of course we're able to build a deep team with this cap structure. We've done it for multiple years, and it's only going to get easier with prospects to provide ELC value and a rising cap.

Of course he has. Most superstars do, because superstars are improperly paid in this league relative to their impact, in order to overpay the middle tier.
[Insert cherry picked superstar player that exploded post-signing] is not the standard of what a dollar of cap space is worth. That is the exception.
He's been one of the best players in the league over the length of his contract, and any measure of the value of cap space relative to impact has him well outperforming it.

Post-ELC and UFA contracts have nothing to do with each other. Nylander's contract is about Nylander, what he wanted, and what he could expect to be paid based on historical UFA comparables.

NMCs and trade protections are quite common for top tier players, and even ones that don't have them are barely ever traded anyway.

They get some of the best players in the league. Some people seem to forget that.

They don't need to make the playoffs. Many players don't and get paid massive amounts. Making the playoffs is just the natural result of great players giving it their all.

Expected goals for and against is what the skaters are doing, in the context of how a league average goalie performs. How the individual team's goalie performs is separate.

Matthews and Marner, up to now, have not given anything up for the benefit of the team in any of their contract negotiations. NADA! ZILCH! But hey, they have had great regular seasons, and have managed to win one playoff round in 7 years. Slice it any way you want it Dekes, they have gotten EVERYTHING they wanted in their contracts, while this clueless ownership and management team have gotten nothing, as in maybe saving a few million along the way to have better depth.

So tell me, how many fans would be happy if they didn't make the playoffs, but the core players had great regular seasons? I believe you would be one of the very few! And if this core has shown us anything in the past 7 playoffs, they can't take this team past the 1st round (yes they finally won a playoff round last season, only to get owned by Florida in the 2nd round,) because they are unable to surround this core with the depth needed, especially on defence, due to how much cap they're happily giving to the core.

 

[ACC1224]

Matthews and Marner, up to now, have not given anything up for the benefit of the team in any of their contract negotiations. NADA! ZILCH! But hey, they have had great regular seasons, and have managed to win one playoff round in 7 years. Slice it any way you want it Dekes, they have gotten EVERYTHING they wanted in their contracts, while this clueless ownership and management team have gotten nothing, as in maybe saving a few million along the way to have better depth.

So tell me, how many fans would be happy if they didn't make the playoffs, but the core players had great regular seasons? I believe you would be one of the very few! And if this core has shown us anything in the past 7 playoffs, they can't take this team past the 1st round (yes they finally won a playoff round last season, only to get owned by Florida in the 2nd round,) because they are unable to surround this core with the depth needed, especially on defence, due to how much cap they're happily giving to the core.

You have to include Tavares and Nylander in there as well.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

You have to include Tavares and Nylander in there as well.

Yes, you're absolutely right!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Matthews and Marner, up to now, have not given anything up for the benefit of the team in any of their contract negotiations.

Sure they have. They both could have got more pretty easily. You're really just upset that the circumstances and development path didn't allow us to massively underpay them like a select few others around the league that exploded post-signing. Our players were too good too young and we have to have good cap-efficient contracts instead of massive fluke steals. Oh no.

while this clueless ownership and management team have gotten nothing, as in maybe saving a few million along the way to have better depth.

This team has gotten top tier players that outperform their contracts. People seem to be forgetting the player part of signing a player. And more money doesn't automatically mean better depth, for the record. We had money this offseason, and our depth would be worse if not for a couple ELC players making next to nothing boosting it. We're paying 5.5m for a guy playing in the top six pacing 38 points. We spent 4.15m for a guy to tank our defensive play for 14 games, before being shipped to Robidas Island. We spent 1.35m on literal garbage that hurts us. We spent 3.55m on a goalie that's currently in the AHL. The middle tier is where money most gets thrown in the garbage. What's saving us? Our superstars, and depth provided from league minimum players and ELCs.

We had 2 options. Spend money on our top tier players, or lose our top tier players and spend money on mid-tier depth that is much more likely to have a lesser combined impact per cap dollar. We made the right choice.

So tell me, how many fans would be happy if they didn't make the playoffs, but the core players had great regular seasons? I believe you would be one of the very few!

Not sure why you'd think I'd be okay with missing the playoffs. That would not be acceptable at all.
The point was that it wouldn't really change their compensation. Players make top tier money all the time without making the playoffs.

And if this core has shown us anything in the past 7 playoffs, they can't take this team past the 1st round

Not only have they already taken the team past the 1st round, but that would be an incorrect conclusion to draw from these past team outcomes, even if they hadn't.

because they are unable to surround this core with the depth needed, especially on defence, due to how much cap they're happily giving to the core.

That's not why we've lost any of our series, and sacrificing our core to overpay mid-tier depth would have just led to worse outcomes.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Sure they have. They both could have got more pretty easily. You're really just upset that the circumstances and development path didn't allow us to massively underpay them like a select few others around the league that exploded post-signing. Our players were too good too young and we have to have good cap-efficient contracts instead of massive fluke steals. Oh no.

This team has gotten top tier players that outperform their contracts. People seem to be forgetting the player part of signing a player. And more money doesn't automatically mean better depth, for the record. We had money this offseason, and our depth would be worse if not for a couple ELC players making next to nothing boosting it. We're paying 5.5m for a guy playing in the top six pacing 38 points. We spent 4.15m for a guy to tank our defensive play for 14 games, before being shipped to Robidas Island. We spent 1.35m on literal garbage that hurts us. We spent 3.55m on a goalie that's currently in the AHL. The middle tier is where money most gets thrown in the garbage. What's saving us? Our superstars, and depth provided from league minimum players and ELCs.

We had 2 options. Spend money on our top tier players, or lose our top tier players and spend money on mid-tier depth that is much more likely to have a lesser combined impact per cap dollar. We made the right choice.

Not sure why you'd think I'd be okay with missing the playoffs. That would not be acceptable at all.
The point was that it wouldn't really change their compensation. Players make top tier money all the time without making the playoffs.

Not only have they already taken the team past the 1st round, but that would be an incorrect conclusion to draw from these past team outcomes, even if they hadn't.

That's not why we've lost any of our series, and sacrificing our core to overpay mid-tier depth would have just led to worse outcomes.

Wow, I did not realize that paying each of them around $1 million less would be considered a massive underpayment!

Hard to argue about Bertuzzi, but at least he's working his butt off and is effective.

Hated the Klingberg and Reaves signing from the start! At least, thankfully for Tre, Klingberg going on LTIR did free up some much needed capspace.

After what Samsonov did last year, they had to do what they did. That was the right choice at the time.

Read my entire sentence on that one!

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Nick Kypreos: Why Maple Leafs GM Brad Treliving never had a chance in William Nylander's contract negotiations

Nylander's newly-minted $92-million deal was seen by many as a home run, especially when management didn’t appear to put up much of a fight.

www.thestar.com

The Leafs were given a hard number by Nylander's camp last summer and, after many months, they waved the white flag and hit it on the nose. If you had heard any rumblings regarding the negotiations between then and now, it would’ve been the sounds of the Leafs negotiating against themselves.

It certainly couldn’t have been easy for the newly appointed Treliving to walk head-on into high-profile contract talks with Auston Matthews and Nylander at the start of his tenure here.

Prior to Treliving becoming the team's 18th general manager, the Leafs' young guns had already set a well-established precedent for having their productive performances rewarded; money, desired term, large signing bonuses and no-movement clauses were part of the mix. Matthews and Nylander got it all. And with a good playoff run, Marner will assure himself he'll be next.

It's important to note the Leafs are known as the best and most generous organization in the NHL. Their treatment toward players, their families and the alumni is nothing but first class. If anything, they can be accused of being too generous, and it's why players like Nylander don't want to leave.

Knowing that, it makes you wonder why Leafs president Brendan Shanahan’s infamous comment in 2018 on the expectation his young talent would take less money to stay together never came to be. Quite the contrary. It’s as if they all secretly swore an oath not to leave anything on the table.

So for people who believe Treliving could have put the genie back in the bottle with Nylander's new contract, it was an unrealistic ask. Factor in the 27-year-old's consistently stellar play this season and Treliving had zero room to play hardball. It’s as if the ghost of Kyle Dubas roams the halls of Scotiabank Arena uttering the words “we can and we will” keep the core intact all over again.

For any team to successfully pitch the hometown discount card, they must first have a firm grasp of the player's personality. Matthews, Marner and Nylander have never shown any signs of vulnerability.

And this is where agents Judd Moldaver, Darren Ferris and Gross earn their rather handsome fees. It comes from getting their clients not to waver.

............

Unfortunately for Leafs management, their three guys never bought into that mindset. They trusted their agents enough to allow them to march forward.

The first real sign of it came after the Leafs signed John Tavares for $11 million a season in 2018. The organization could have used that number as an internal cap to set the table for the following contracts but the agents didn’t let them.

Did the Leafs even try to sell the Tavares signing as the internal cap max? Other teams have been able to that with their captains. Montreal recently did it with young star Cole Caufield's deal being under captain Nick Suzuki’s.

Matthews and his agent Moldaver were the first to not see it that way four years ago when he catapulted above Tavares' annual salary by $600,000. Despite Tavares's reputation as the face of the Islanders, the Matthews and Marner camps knew Tavares was no more than the third-best player on the depth chart.

This is the way the Leafs operate. Will not change until the core either leaves via FA or retires, and the President is replaced by someone who's negotiating model isn't based around Santa Claus' business plan.

 

[Apex Predator]

This is the way the Leafs operate. Will not change until the core either leaves via FA or retires, and the President is replaced by someone who's negotiating model isn't based around Santa Claus' business plan.

I think them over paying they thought the players would appreciate it and dig deep for them when it mattered most. Leafs paid for future success and to this point has not come through yet. Hopefully they make a lot of us it crow in the future.

 

[ToneDog]

This is the way the Leafs operate. Will not change until the core either leaves via FA or retires, and the President is replaced by someone who's negotiating model isn't based around Santa Claus' business plan.

These 3 may go down as some of the most unlikeable Leafs. They have no shame/humility when it comes to asking for every penny after leading this team to virtually zero playoff success.

I think them over paying they thought the players would appreciate it and dig deep for them when it mattered most. Leafs paid for future success and to this point has not come through yet. Hopefully they make a lot of us it crow in the future.

That is what they have Leafs management thinking and why Leafs management keeps running them back. So far 1-7 in playoffs. There are who we think they are IMO. For me, hope for the best, expect the worst. No longer losing any sleep when these guys lose early in the playoffs and head off to their cottages to enjoy their money.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think them over paying they thought the players would appreciate it and dig deep for them when it mattered most. Leafs paid for future success and to this point has not come through yet. Hopefully they make a lot of us it crow in the future.

Crow would be nice. Would taste a whole lot better than the stuff this core has been serving up for many years now that tastes like ... well, I'm not going to say it but perhaps you get my drift.

 

[Gary Nylund]

These 3 may go down as some of the most unlikeable Leafs. They have no shame/humility when it comes to asking for every penny after leading this team to virtually zero playoff success.

That is what they have Leafs management thinking and why Leafs management keeps running them back. So far 1-7 in playoffs. There are who we think they are IMO. For me, hope for the best, expect the worst. No longer losing any sleep when these guys lose early in the playoffs and head off to their cottages to enjoy their money.

Indeed. Some people praise them like they're some sort of heroes, so many posts about statues built for them and how they'll have these all-time Leaf records and how if you dare say a bad word about them, you don't understand what you're seeing, can't appreciate the greatness, would you rather go back to the days where we were missing the playoffs yada yada yada.

They can have all the all-time records that exist but if they keep turning into cupcakes in the playoffs, they will always be unlikeable to me.