Confirmed with Link: Nylander Re-signs (6 yrs x $6.9 AAV) Pt III

[BoredBrandonPridham]

there were rumblings that NHL partnering up with officially gambling companies would mean more $$$ for the NHL and that may allow cap to increase.

also if they allow more tams to contend in the playoffs as was suggested by few that is more revenue for the league

Yup. Then when more players are getting paid, there will be an even higher premium on elite players and more salaries, this will cut away from what Nylander makes in those later years. In a perfect world it would all balance out, but I think in general that monetary value decreases, hence why all contracts tend to be frontloaded.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Ok how's this, the Leafs are good defensively but that's mostly due to their goaltender, their Dmen as a group are mediocre at best.

Now I hate to be that guy but do you mind answering my questions?
Did you watch the game last night? If you did, what did you think of our D? (by that I mean our Dmen, not Andersen).

Not a good game for them for sure. Fortunately it only resulted in 3 goals.

But that's one game. Good defensive teams with a good goaltender will allow more than 2 goals on occasion.

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah, the same value as Ehlers. That's what he is worth to me and no more or less. I think that in hindsight the team is going to wish they did not leave that extra cap space dangling this year before negotiations. It was a big mistake and Nylander outsmarted us. We would have been better giving a 1 year deal to Nash or something.

we ?

''we" weren't part of the negotiations and "we" don't have any input into what both sides were looking for

and both the players and mgmt are simply employees of the team so there isn't any "we" or "them" involved in how much the fans believed he should have signed for

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Nylanders deal will be the only deal in the NHL where it is a $6.9m deal, however everyone will refer to it as $7.5m just because they hate either Nylander or the Leafs. I hope it fizzles away eventually though, because it’s annoying. It is the new Melander.

 

[socko]

Nylanders deal will be the only deal in the NHL where it is a $6.9m deal, however everyone will refer to it as $7.5m just because they hate either Nylander or the Leafs. I hope it fizzles away eventually though, because it’s annoying. It is the new Melander.

He's getting paid at a rate of $7.5 million. We currently have a record of 19-8 and he has not contributed to that at all. That is the only reason he's not getting his full $7.5.

 

[hotpaws]

Are you suggesting $45M over 6 at the beginning of the season would have been the right move for the team?

why the spin ?

the deal was set up so he gets 7m per and i believe that deal could have been done sometime before the season started

you can believe otherwise since that is your right but there's need to spin it for some weird defense of mgmt

 

[Einzakin]

I think Nylander had the slight edge here. I sort of would have liked Dubas to take a bolder approach. I think it's still a win-win but to me this shows Dubas was not willing to walk away, he caved slightly. Players around the league and other agents will take note of this, and I think it gives them energy in the longer-term negotiations.

Still happy Nylander was signed.

 

[Kiwi]

When a 20/61 guy gets a record breaking $7.5 million dollar deal and only gives up 1 year of UFA for it. Only 1 side won.

What's the cap hit in years 2-6 when it really matters again?

I don't give a flying **** if he gets 7.5M AAV, I only care about the cap hit next season on

We just tied up a 22 year old kid with excellent production and significant upside for a cap hit of 6.97M in years 2-6 (which are the ones that count with our cap situation) with a very valuable contract if we do decide to move him

It's a good solid deal

 

[Babcocks Marner]

The point I was trying to make is that if Cherry is only going to look at goals and ridicule the Leafs for paying that much money to a 20 goal scorer than fine, Marner is also a 20 goal scorer so we'll pay him the same. I'll be very happy to ink Marner to a 7M dollar contract and when Cherry says once again that it's dumb to pay a 20 goal scorer that much, I'll smile and have another sip of beer.

Contract negotiations are complex and all kind of things are considered. I guess someone could say hey you overpaid this guy by 8% so I want to be overpaid by 8% as well but I don't see it happening myself.

20 goals is comparable but you can't just toss out everything else. Cherry is Cherry, personally, I enjoy his madness. He is truly insane and I love it.

Marner may end up with +30% production when comparing their final 2 ELC years. His agent is going to say "You paid Nylander 7.5mil/year and we want X"....... X is a scary number imo now. I'm trying to think like a money grubbin agent.

 

[IPS]

For some reason, it won't let me insert the link. But look up Andrew Berkshire's article on Sportsnet.

Nylander is an amazing, bordering on elite offensive player. He'll also help Toronto's defence by a huge amount with his ability to transition the puck and his takeaway ability.

All in all, you bet on skill guys, not the David Clarksons and Milan Lucics.

Good to see Matthews' partner in crime back in action.

I'm trying to think like a money grubbin agent.

As a money grubbing agent, it should also be taken into consideration that they sat Nylander's ass for 25 games and didn't bat an eye. Dubas at the very least showed that he won't f*** around.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

He's getting paid at a rate of $7.5 million. We currently have a record of 19-8 and he has not contributed to that at all. That is the only reason he's not getting his full $7.5.

For the entirety of the cap era, Leafs fans could all agree: “All we care about is the cap. We could pay a player $100m and it doesn’t matter all we care about is the cap”. If there could be anything that the entire Leafs nation could ever agree on, that was it. It was the one fact that we could all come together to enjoy and accept as universal truth.

But at 4:59:59pm Dec. 1, that changed. Now there is a very strong obsession in Leafs nation with this number $7.5m. What is this number?

Is hit this beloved cap number? No. Interesting.

Is it the amount of money received by Nylander? No.

Is it the amount of money the Leafs paid? No.

Yet it is being used to describe Nylanders compensation. And let’s not be fooled on why that is. It is painfully obvious, and it is the usual suspects in here that carry that fascination.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Marner's agent is ecstatic, as are all RFA's. What's not to like here? Nylander is getting 20 million in his pocket within 7 months. Wow.

True, and an extra $400k over a six year span is $2.4 m, which isn't too shabby either.

Also, the long term contract of 7 or 8 years got eroded down to 6 years.

Also, we argued that Ehlers was the most comparable contract and that Pastrnak was a better player than Willy, so his contract shouldn't be comparable. Now suddenly Pastrnak's contract is comparable. I think there is some U.S. dive team level of back flips here.

 

[socko]

What's the cap hit in years 2-6 when it really matters again?

I don't give a flying **** if he gets 7.5M AAV, I only care about the cap hit next season on

We just tied up a 22 year old kid with excellent production and significant upside for a cap hit of 6.97M in years 2-6 (which are the ones that count with our cap situation) with a very valuable contract if we do decide to move him

It's a good solid deal

It puts us firmly in with Edmonton in terms of overpayment, and far away from Tampa and Boston.

 

[PromisedLand]

Marner's agent is ecstatic, as are all RFA's. What's not to like here? Nylander is getting 20 million in his pocket within 7 months. Wow.

here is the live look at Marner's agent since the Nylander contract announcement

 

[hotpaws]

I think Nylander had the slight edge here. I sort of would have liked Dubas to take a bolder approach. I think it's still a win-win but to me this shows Dubas was not willing to walk away, he caved slightly. Players around the league and other agents will take note of this, and I think it gives them energy in the longer-term negotiations.

Still happy Nylander was signed.

if Shanny/Dubas let him sit to force him to sign a team friendly deal they'd be rightly getting crucified right now

imo you try to get them to sign team friendly deals but if they won't then you sign them to fair deals regardless on which end of the scale there on and deal with the cap issues after the season

 

[dimi78]

It matters because it sets the bar for other players. Any player using Nylander will say 7.5 not 7.

So what? Not every player is Nylander level of talent... The mistake was the strong arm tactic to low ball a top line player in the first place X10 when Shanny went public not the contract they ended up negotiating with Nylander.

Shanny is the one who messed up here big time that stretched this to the point where it did. Business 101 you do not go public during negotiations in an attempt to strong arm...

For the plan that Shanny wants they had to treat the big 3 that Nylander is apart of like he was a UFA and SELL to him to take less the same way they did with JT... Strong arming and going public to discredit the player is a bad strategy in any type of business negotiations. Dubus is taking heat but it's Shanny that's to blame. He hired smarter people than he to do a job and he F@$%*$ them over in doing the job right by speaking to the media.

 

[egd27]

When a 20/61 guy gets a record breaking $7.5 million dollar deal and only gives up 1 year of UFA for it. Only 1 side won.

When an organization uses its financial might to make that record breaking contract a valuable trading chip in 8 months rather than an albatross, I wouldn't say they lost.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The point I was trying to make is that if Cherry is only going to look at goals and ridicule the Leafs for paying that much money to a 20 goal scorer than fine, Marner is also a 20 goal scorer so we'll pay him the same. I'll be very happy to ink Marner to a 7M dollar contract and when Cherry says once again that it's dumb to pay a 20 goal scorer that much, I'll smile and have another sip of beer.

Contract negotiations are complex and all kind of things are considered. I guess someone could say hey you overpaid this guy by 8% so I want to be overpaid by 8% as well but I don't see it happening myself.

That's fine. I get your point or points i.e., using goals as the only metric.

I was looking at different aspects of what Cherry said.

I'm hoping that Marner gets a Draisaitl type contract, but I'm feeling more edgy and less confident about that now. His production is high and I sense the RFA deals are changing now. The WN process and contract seems to be proof of that.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yup. Then when more players are getting paid, there will be an even higher premium on elite players and more salaries, this will cut away from what Nylander makes in those later years. In a perfect world it would all balance out, but I think in general that monetary value decreases, hence why all contracts tend to be frontloaded.

yup in general value of your dollar (or any currency) decerases with time so if you front load it; you can invest those dollars to earn some return on it.

I still remember I was able to buy 2 slices, dipping sauce and a can of pop at Pizza Pizza for around 4.50 when I was in school; not the case anymore

 

[Mattavarner]

Its not a fair deal based on his current comparables, so right now I would say he's overpaid
However, after this summer with...

Matthews
Marner
Rantanen
Laine
Connor
Point
M. Tkachuk
McAvoy
Aho
Werenski
Provorov
Boeser
Trouba

and to a lesser extent

Fiala
Meier
Konecny
W. Karlsson

...all due to sign, I think Willy will look underpaid compared to what they will get, so basically its up to Willy to prove it.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Nylanders deal will be the only deal in the NHL where it is a $6.9m deal, however everyone will refer to it as $7.5m just because they hate either Nylander or the Leafs. I hope it fizzles away eventually though, because it’s annoying. It is the new Melander.

What's the precedent on other contracts? When rfa's sign late, do they announce the "actual" contract, and then explain the adjusted cap hits? Or do they just announce the cap hit years 2-x? I tried looking it up but couldn't find anything.

 

[Gary Nylund]

20 goals is comparable but you can't just toss out everything else. Cherry is Cherry, personally, I enjoy his madness. He is truly insane and I love it.

Marner may end up with +30% production when comparing their final 2 ELC years. His agent is going to say "You paid Nylander 7.5mil/year and we want X"....... X is a scary number imo now. I'm trying to think like a money grubbin agent.

I love Cherry too but ... ah never mind. Anyhow, Marner's agent will have tons of ammo for contract negotiations and I doubt very much that Nylander's contract even comes up.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

What's the precedent on other contracts? When rfa's sign late, do they announce the "actual" contract, and then explain the adjusted cap hits? Or do they just announce the cap hit years 2-x? I tried looking it up but couldn't find anything.

Not sure. I’m not talking about the announcement. Everyone references the cap hit, always. But not this one......

 

[Babcocks Marner]

All in all, you bet on skill guys, not the David Clarksons and Milan Lucics.

Good to see Matthews' partner in crime back in action.


As a money grubbing agent, it should also be taken into consideration that they sat Nylander's ass for 25 games and didn't bat an eye. Dubas at the very least showed that he won't **** around.

If Dubas had that offer on the table the entire time that would make willy look like quite the a**hat.

I'm sure there was movement from both sides leading up to the final hour call. Who knows, maybe Gross wanted even more and Willy put his foot down at the last min.

Like I said, if I knew more facts, I would probably be pissed with someone, but until then, it is what it is.
Glad he is back.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's fine. I get your point or points i.e., using goals as the only metric.

I was looking at different aspects of what Cherry said.

I'm hoping that Marner gets a Draisaitl type contract, but I'm feeling more edgy and less confident about that now. His production is high and I sense the RFA deals are changing now. The WN process and contract seems to be proof of that.

Too early to say as there are still a ton of games to play but if his production ends up Kucherov level, then Kucherov + inflation seems like a good place to start (and hopefully end) discussions.