Nylander/Jokiharju Trade Talk 2

[ChiHawks10]

I see Jokiharju as a clear cut top 4 defenseman and expect him to eventually be a #2-3D. He had huge upside.

Nylander being a top line winger who regularly gets 60-70pts a season is arguably just as good as a #2-3D, maybe even a little better, but I think there is a ton more risk for us and Nylander. I don't know if he'll ever become a top line guy for us (outside of playing 3rd wheel from time to time like Versteeg in 2015).



Nylander's floor is absolutely lower than Joki's. You might not think he turns out that bad (bust) , but there is a reason so many people, including the average joe on HF as well as countless hockey reporters, think Buffalo won the trade. It's because we now assume all the risks.

Assuming risk is different than offering an opinion on his floor, though. IMO, his floor isn't that much lower than Joker's.

 

[RayP]

I see Jokiharju as a clear cut top 4 defenseman and expect him to eventually be a #2-3D. He had huge upside.

Nylander being a top line winger who regularly gets 60-70pts a season is arguably just as good as a #2-3D, maybe even a little better, but I think there is a ton more risk for us and Nylander. I don't know if he'll ever become a top line guy for us (outside of playing 3rd wheel from time to time like Versteeg in 2015).



Nylander's floor is absolutely lower than Joki's. You might not think he turns out that bad (bust) , but there is a reason so many people, including the average joe on HF as well as countless hockey reporters, think Buffalo won the trade. It's because we now assume all the risks.

This I will disagree with, but maybe it's just semantics. To me "huge upside" is a legit #1 defender, and he doesn't have that upside.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Assuming risk is different than offering an opinion on his floor, though. IMO, his floor isn't that much lower than Joker's.

What his supposed floor can be is probably different from person to person.

I think, with his IQ and hands, that he could be at least a a 30-40pt winger (think Kahun or Versteeg 2.0). I'd much rather have Joki than that.

If they both hit their ceilings, than Nylander probably is the better player. I just have my doubts about Nylander hitting his.

This I will disagree with, but maybe it's just semantics. To me "huge upside" is a legit #1 defender, and he doesn't have that upside.

Definitely semantics. Huge upside to me is a solid 2-3D; basically being able to have a similarly positive impact as someone like Hammer before he was moved to Arizona.

 

[RayP]

What his supposed floor can be is probably different from person to person.

I think, with his IQ and hands, that he could be at least a a 30-40pt winger (think Kahun or Versteeg 2.0). I'd much rather have Joki than that.

If they both hit their ceilings, than Nylander probably is the better player. I just have my doubts about Nylander hitting his.


Definitely semantics. Huge upside to me is a solid 2-3D; basically being able to have a similarly positive impact as someone like Hammer before he was moved to Arizona.

Nylander's floor going off what I have read could be as low as out of the NHL.

Joker's floor is definitely better as he's likely at least a 3rd pairing guy.

But as said before Nylander has legit top line potential, where as I don't see Joker as legit top pairing potential. Not on a good top pairing that he's anchoring, at least.

 

[cassac]

What his supposed floor can be is probably different from person to person.

I think, with his IQ and hands, that he could be at least a a 30-40pt winger (think Kahun or Versteeg 2.0). I'd much rather have Joki than that.

If they both hit their ceilings, than Nylander probably is the better player. I just have my doubts about Nylander hitting his.


Definitely semantics. Huge upside to me is a solid 2-3D; basically being able to have a similarly positive impact as someone like Hammer before he was moved to Arizona.

The difference to me with Joker and Hammer is that Hammer was possibly the best defensive defenseman in the league for a while. I don’t see Joker having that potential although he will definitely contribute more offensively.

 

[CallMeShaft]

The difference to me with Joker and Hammer is that Hammer was possibly the best defensive defenseman in the league for a while. I don’t see Joker having that potential although he will definitely contribute more offensively.

Better offense, worse defense than Hammer is what I expect.

 

[KWP]

Upon further review ... comment unnecessary.
(Boomer tech issue - resolved. Not sure how tho - keep clicking keys fix finds its way. ;-)

 

[Joe Scaduto]

Nylander put with skilled linemates is gonna produce.Why are people so negative about Nylander .... Give him a break .Lets see what he can do .

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Nylander put with skilled linemates is gonna produce.Why are people so negative about Nylander .... Give him a break .Lets see what he can do .

They're not mad they acquired Nylander, they're mad that it cost Jokiharju. There are probably people on this board that think Nylander could have been had for something like Perlini and a small+.

 

[RayP]

Better offense, worse defense than Hammer is what I expect.

Significantly worse defense, IMO, and I expect Joker to be pretty good defensively.

But Hammer was just that god damn good defensively.

 

[CallMeShaft]

They're not mad they acquired Nylander, they're mad that it cost Jokiharju. There are probably people on this board that think Nylander could have been had for something like Perlini and a small+.

I think it would've cost more than Perlini, but yeah, I'm upset that it cost us Jokiharju. That is too much imo.

Having said that, Nylander is arguably our 2nd best forward prospect right now and I look forward to seeing him play and develop here.

 

[TheSting]

I think Sikura is going to surprise many of you. Without scoring the other parts of his game which are already impactful are easy to ignore. All he needs is a few bounces and all of a sudden he's a pretty good overall player.

Every successful team/season usually has surprises on the roster. Why not Rudy Sikura...

 

[nmgrbhfn]

Anyone think the Sabres move Ristolainen before camp? In looking at the Sabre’s depth chart, assuming Risto is moved and ZB is washed up, does HJ automatically slot above Montour and Wilson in the Sabre’s depth chart? I could easily see HJ ending up in the AHL again looking at the Sabre’s depth chart.

 

[featherhawk]

Anyone think the Sabres move Ristolainen before camp? In looking at the Sabre’s depth chart, assuming Risto is moved and ZB is washed up, does HJ automatically slot above Montour and Wilson in the Sabre’s depth chart? I could easily see HJ ending up in the AHL again looking at the Sabre’s depth chart.

I am certain that Joker was brought in to be partnered with Dahlin and IMO they will become a dominant pairing in the future, Joker is almost a perfect match for him

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

That has been talk among Buffalo sports media since trade and makes most sense

As for Risto he is one of the most overrated players in NHL. Removing him from blueline is automatic improvement for team's D

He makes Gus look like Lidstrom when it comes to his play in own end

 

[KWP]

If Nylander's supposed to be all that and a bag of chips then why has he failed to be anything ...?

C'mon dude, it's obvious ... missing the salsa dip.
"All hat no cattle" - out.
"All chip no salsa" - in.

Also, "hot takes" out, spicy in.
(Or maybe hot takes still in ... but for sure w. me - unfully formed thoughts DEF in.)

 

[nmgrbhfn]

That has been talk among Buffalo sports media since trade and makes most sense

As for Risto he is one of the most overrated players in NHL. Removing him from blueline is automatic improvement for team's D

He makes Gus look like Lidstrom when it comes to his play in own end

Do you think HJ will make the Sabre’s roster out of training camp? Where will he slot if he does in your opinion?

 

[featherhawk]

Do you think HJ will make the Sabre’s roster out of training camp? Where will he slot if he does in your opinion?

asked and answered

I am certain that Joker was brought in to be partnered with Dahlin and IMO they will become a dominant pairing in the future, Joker is almost a perfect match for him

and BWC' liked the post.

 

[KWP]

"... He (Risto) makes Gus look like Lidstrom when it comes to his play in own end

Dunno bud, small sample size - maybe 3-4 games last season including the 2 against Hawks - but I thought Risto looked quite solid both sides of the puck & recall he laid the body on pretty good too. Agree to disagree ...

 

[BobbyJet]

That has been talk among Buffalo sports media since trade and makes most sense

As for Risto he is one of the most overrated players in NHL. Removing him from blueline is automatic improvement for team's D

He makes Gus look like Lidstrom when it comes to his play in own end

I can't say I have seen that much of Risto but I do know this, when he is on the ice ops had better be aware. If you have seen him extensively as well as catching all of the Hawks games you must watch a lot more hockey than most. Anyway, he's a nasty piece of work who takes no prisoners. Some posters will call that insignificant but it isn't. Intimidation will always be a factor on the ice.

 

[featherhawk]

Risto presented well in his first few years with the Sabres as a result of them being THAT BAD, now that they have some skill and are better they realize that Risto really is...well not really great....

 

[nmgrbhfn]

Wer

asked and answered

I am certain that Joker was brought in to be partnered with Dahlin and IMO they will become a dominant pairing in the future, Joker is almost a perfect match for him

and BWC' liked the post.

With all due respect, there wasn’t a question asked yet that was that specific. Thanks for answering the question though. I’m kinda agnostic on HJ bc I followed his stats out of the gates last year when he had twelve assists early and was doing well vis a vis other rookies. But at some point his production stopped, and he seemed overmatched at times.

 

[featherhawk]

Wer
With all due respect, there wasn’t a question asked yet that was that specific. Thanks for answering the question though. I’m kinda agnostic on HJ bc I followed his stats out of the gates last year when he had twelve assists early and was doing well vis a vis other rookies. But at some point his production stopped, and he seemed overmatched at times.

he was the hawks best all around D for the first quarter of the season and IMO many, many people misread Jokers potential as an offensive Dman which IMO he would never really be. He is an all around sold D that makes good choices with the puck, has good positioning and has excellent hockey IQ and instincts. I would compare him to Marc Eduard Vlassic although not quite as good defensively but better offensively.... all in all a perfect match almost for Dahlin

 

[nmgrbhfn]

he was the hawks best all around D for the first quarter of the season and IMO many, many people misread Jokers potential as an offensive Dman which IMO he would never really be. He is an all around sold D that makes good choices with the puck, has good positioning and has excellent hockey IQ and instincts. I would compare him to Marc Eduard Vlassic although not quite as good defensively but better offensively.... all in all a perfect match almost for Dahlin

You peaked my curiosity, I will definitely watch HJ’s progress with your comments in mind.

 

[BobbyJet]

he was the hawks best all around D for the first quarter of the season and IMO many, many people misread Jokers potential as an offensive Dman which IMO he would never really be. He is an all around sold D that makes good choices with the puck, has good positioning and has excellent hockey IQ and instincts. I would compare him to Marc Eduard Vlassic although not quite as good defensively but better offensively.... all in all a perfect match almost for Dahlin

No he wasn't. It was obvious to me that Q was playing him out of desperation. Hawks blueline was that bad.