Nylander is getting too much hate, but the love might be returning!

[Stamkos4life]

Great analysis.

You seem to rely to eavily on advanced stats.

Carolina has had some amazing stats over the last ~2 years but are not a very good team.

I go with the eye test and actual production over advanced stats any day.

Nobody in there right mind should be saying that nylander has been playing really well, let alone one of our best players lol

I feel like you are getting egged on by the posters who are critizing nylander but it doent look good to be over the top in defending him

 

[RLF]

I think he's gone regardless it's just a matter of whether he increases his value or not.

Only way he stays is if his play elevates so much that his contract becomes a steal.

Not really disagreeing, just saying depending on Kap and Johnsson's asks and Willy's play, it could get interesting.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

You seem to rely to eavily on advanced stats.

Carolina has had some amazing stats over the last ~2 years but are not a very good team.

I go with the eye test and actual production over advanced stats any day.

Nobody in there right mind should be saying that nylander has been playing really well, let alone one of our best players lol

I feel like you are getting egged on by the posters who are critizing nylander but it doent look good to be over the top in defending him

When you say I'm "going over the top defending him", what do you mean? Do you mean I'm making inaccurate assessments of his play, or just being very tenacious in arguing the stats and analysis that other posters are bringing up?

 

[ACC1224]

Not really disagreeing, just saying depending on Kap and Johnsson's asks and Willy's play, it could get interesting.

For sure.
Wonder too how much the Board will influence things?

 

[Stamkos4life]

Thread is proving it again. Nylander supporters are most objective then the Nylander critics/Marner fans.

This is simply not true.

A year or two ago there were members of the nylander fan club saying he was already better than john mf tavarez lol

 

[RLF]

For sure.
Wonder too how much the Board will influence things?

I'm not sure if the board will be very involved. If you look at Dubas actions and words as well as other reports about Kap/Sandin being "untouchable"...it may be Dubas has decided his plan is going to be to load up on forward and spend money there and go young and cheap on D and rely on really good goaltending. He may try and keep Nylander/Kap/Jonsson and we could be looking at a D of Rielly, Dermott, Z, Liligren, Rosen, Sandin next year.

 

[ACC1224]

This is simply not true.

A year or two ago there were members of the nylander fan club saying he was already better than john mf tavarez lol

Yeah it really seems like it's become Nylander fans and Leaf fans.
It's pretty bizarre that any criticism is met with such harsh defense.

 

[DarkKnight]

I don't understand why some always have to mention Nylander with Marner top of mind, it's truly bizarre as well as a "tell".

I have a signed Sundin jersey in my closet, Mogilny was a favourite of mine. I don't even consider nationality when accessing a talent, again an odd refrain.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't understand why some always have to mention Nylander with Marner top of mind, it's truly bizarre as well as a "tell".

I have a signed Sundin jersey in my closet, Mogilny was a favourite of mine. I don't even consider nationality when accessing a talent, again an odd refrain.

Agreed, one has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Stamkos4life]

When you say I'm "going over the top defending him", what do you mean? Do you mean I'm making inaccurate assessments of his play, or just being very tenacious in arguing the stats and analysis that other posters are bringing up?

Fair question.

I just went back through more of the conversations and quite a few of them are fairly aggresive or just rude.

And thank you for your well-researched lecture on the coorelation between a players thru% and oish%

You seem very intelligent when it comes to hockey (I dont follow the stats nearly as much as you) but it looks like some posters are getting you going.

I couldnt find anywhere that you actually said "nylander is one of our best players" or "has been playing really well" so I apologize for that.

 

[egd27]

I think the golden kid Mitch Marner love and hate is even worse. If he asks for a lot of money, Dubas likely trades him.

I feel sad im going after Mitch. I love the player and don't want him to go. The trash said about Nylander is annoying, and some people actually think its criticism. I like to even it up and in the process, I resort to their level which is not right.

Is this your thinking?

People are critical of Nylander because he did hold out and have a poor start upon returning, so you are going to be critical of Marner now in case the does the same thing in the future.

 

[stickty111]

This is simply not true.

A year or two ago there were members of the nylander fan club saying he was already better than john mf tavarez lol

People say stuff like that all the time. Like when the Marner club said he is better then Matthews.

 

[ToneDog]

100% which will solidify his spot in the lineup

Given what Brown and Hyman got Kappy should command 3.25-3.5 possibly more if he plays the cap percentage card.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

You seem to rely to eavily on advanced stats.

Carolina has had some amazing stats over the last ~2 years but are not a very good team.

Stats are useful to find outliers that might be affecting a small sample analysis. I don't really watch Carolina, but what jumps out to me when looking at their team stats and usage is that they basically have 1 line whose players have a history of even league average Sh%, but outside of that line it looks like they have either players that are too young to have a precedent, or players that have a career low Sh% -- just not enough players who can actually score. I don't really see many outliers there, not like in Nylander's case.

 

[ACC1224]

Given what Brown and Hyman got Kappy should command 3.25-3.5 possibly more if he plays the cap percentage card.

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Stamkos4life]

People say stuff like that all the time. Like when the Marner club said he is better then Matthews.

Marner > Matthew's is at least close to being true where as the other one is not even close

 

[stickty111]

Marner > Matthew's is at least close to being true where as the other one is not even close

Delete

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Fair question.

I just went back through more of the conversations and quite a few of them are fairly aggresive or just rude.

I tend to feed off the energy of the poster I'm talking to. Once they make it quite clear they aren't interested in honest debate, I get short and sarcastic.

I couldnt find anywhere that you actually said "nylander is one of our best players" or "has been playing really well" so I apologize for that.

I've been fairly consistent that he's been better than his production indicates, but not at the level he was last year yet. I also think last game where he netted 3 points was not a special game for him, maybe slightly above average this season. The reaction from posters about it though really nails the point home to me that I've been making over the last 20 games so I've been loving it.

The only homer unsubstantiated leap that I've made IMO is that he is playing better than I'd have thought after such a long slump, considering he's just getting back in after a holdout. He keeps plugging away at it, and as we all know things will turn around for him.

 

[egd27]

For sure.
Wonder too how much the Board will influence things?

You mean the MLSE Board, not the HF Board.....correct?

 

[Menzinger]

For sure.
Wonder too how much the Board will influence things?

If the MLSE corporate board is still forcing the GM to sign/trade players thy like then the current Leafs will never be successful.

Fortunately I doubt that’s the case.

 

[Menzinger]

I love Johnsson, but he’s a 24 year old rookie and at the moment will be a bit lucky to finish with 40 points (especially given his injury), he’s going to cost like 2ish million at most.

Nylander’s salary isn’t getting in the way of signing him, Brown would be a much more accurate obstacle (though they won’t have any issue fitting him under the cap evenif Brown is still on the team)

 

[BlueForever75]

Kap will sign between 3-3.5 million per season on a bridge deal. If it gets into the 5-6 year term I can see it getting to an average 0f 4-5 million.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Marner and Matthews isnt close at all. Just like Marner and Eichel isnt close either. It might have been before, but Eichel is easily the better player.
I will argue though Marner is better then Laine and the gap is growing.

Funny you will defend Nylander to the moon and back, but, then make such comments like: Eichel is EASILY the better player over Marner.

How could it be "close before" when Eichel had better numbers up till this year?
Now marner has WAY better numbers, even out goal scoring him and now Eichel is easily the best player?

I think you got it backwards. Eichel was easily the better player before this year. Marner closed the gap and is having the much better season. Even advanced stats say Marner is much better.

But let me guess, we are now gonna toss out adv. stats, and forget the Jack played 20min a game last year Vs. Marners 16:23

Man, that is funny how that works sometimes.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I love Johnsson, but he’s a 24 year old rookie and at the moment will be a bit lucky to finish with 40 points (especially given his injury), he’s going to cost like 2ish million at most.

Nylander’s salary isn’t getting in the way of signing him, Brown would be a much more accurate obstacle (though they won’t have any issue fitting him under the cap evenif Brown is still on the team)

Johnsson is pretty unheralded because of how many other good players we have, and he doesn't really get a good chance. he's still 4th on the team in 5v5 production on a per minute basis (after Tavares, Marner, and Matthews). his underlying numbers are also good

 

[stickty111]

Funny you will defend Nylander to the moon and back, but, then make such comments like: Eichel is EASILY the better player over Marner.

How could it be "close before" when Eichel had better numbers up till this year?
Now marner has WAY better numbers, even out goal scoring him and now Eichel is easily the best player?

I think you got it backwards. Eichel was easily the better player before this year. Marner closed the gap and is having the much better season. Even advanced stats say Marner is much better.

But let me guess, we are now gonna toss out adv. stats, and forget the Jack played 20min a game last year Vs. Marners 16:23

Man, that is funny how that works sometimes.

Its not worth it. Makes me look like a Marner hater when really I love him and Nylander.