News Article: Nylander Discussion

[Bravid Nonahan]

Is that so? Because I've actually watched him a ton since the draft, listened to him and talked with people close to him, and I can say that the dedication is definitely there. It's an opinion that is shared by a lot of people around the MODO organisation, where they were happy with his two-way commitment as a center, and Swedish posters that like me has watched him a lot.

What do you base your opinion on, I wonder?

probably hockeydb.com

 

[samyy]

Is that so? Because I've actually watched him a ton since the draft, listened to him and talked with people close to him, and I can say that the dedication is definitely there. It's an opinion that is shared by a lot of people around the MODO organisation, where they were happy with his two-way commitment as a center, and Swedish posters that like me has watched him a lot.

What do you base your opinion on, I wonder?

Growing up as a Leaf fan its easy to see where they get this mindset. They listen to Don Cherry blast Europeans all the time, certain "analysts" in this city have already dubbed Nylander to be "soft" and regularly say it on the radio. These idiots form the mindsets for a lot of dumb Canadian hockey fans.

Even Sundin was called a soft Euro for gods sake, stupid city.

 

[Vexed]

Growing up as a Leaf fan its easy to see where they get this mindset. They listen to Don Cherry blast Europeans all the time, certain "analysts" in this city have already dubbed Nylander to be "soft" and regularly say it on the radio. These idiots form the mindsets for a lot of dumb Canadian hockey fans.

Even Sundin was called a soft Euro for gods sake, stupid city.

Agreed.

And its weird because there are very few swedish forwards, if any, that do not come to the NHL with a good 2-way instinct. I've always seen the way they play to be very similar to how Canadians approach the game.

The Sedin's maybe the 'softest' swedes I can remember seeing play but they are solid 2-way players.

 

[studebaker17]

I get upset when people put unreasonable expectations on Leaf prospects because its not fair to the prospects, and when they don't reach heights they were never going too, a lot of those fans turn on them.

There is ZERO reason to expect Nylander to be anything other then average/he doesn't hurt you defensively.



So what? And of course you can create their model from scratch. There is no reason Nylander can't play in the AHL until he is physically and mentally an adult (most likely 21-22), knows the systems the Leafs will play inside and out, knows what his role WILL be, and can be expected to join the NHL to be a contributor right away isntead of learning on the job for 1-2 years. There no reason none of that can't be the case.

As I said, you dont keep himd own until he is 22 just because, but you have expectations that won't be reached by 99% of players untilt hey are 21-22-23-24. And the argument was made over and over that were ruining Kadri by sending him down until he was 21-22. Look at how it ruined him.



No reason the Leafs can't be just as hard to break into. And yes NYlander is skilled, is he going to be physically and mentally an adult before everyone in the Wings system? Is he going to learn a system that will be brand new next year by game 1?



And they still weren't ready until their early 20's.

absolutely but if he does earn his way by being better than others he deserves a shot. Every player on and in the leafs system will be learning a new system next year so that doesn't even make sense. Nobodies arguing with you he should be on the big team if he's not ready it's just you have a pre conclusion that he won't be ready for another 3 or 4 years.

 

[samyy]

Agreed.

And its weird because there are very few swedish forwards, if any, that do not come to the NHL with a good 2-way instinct. I've always seen the way they play to be very similar to how Canadians approach the game.

The Sedin's maybe the 'softest' swedes I can remember seeing play but they are solid 2-way players.

I don't even think they are soft, they are not afraid to go into dirty areas and fight along the boards and regularly take abuse. So they're not throwing big hits or dropping the mitts, who cares.

 

[Kubus]

What are peoples expectations of Nylander, remembering that he was drafted 8th overall? And I mean are you expecting a top line player, a goal scorer, what kind of points do you expect him to put up in 5 or so years?


I mean looking at the last decade or so, of players picked between 6 and 10 there is only a handful of legit top end talent(top line forward, top pairing D, goalie), rest falls under support talent (send line forward, second pairing D), and that's only counting the guys who got regular spots in the NHL.

Top end talent selected in 6-10 over the last decade, that I can think of (please add more if you can think of anyone)

• Logan Couture
• Jakub Voracek
• Oliver Ekman-Larsson
• Jeff Skinner
• Dougie Hamilton - if we can count him there yet

What I'm trying to say is that for the last decade out of 50 or so players only a handful are legit top end talent, and even if we dismiss the last 4 years, out of 30 there is a handful of top end talent selected between 6 and 10 positions.

All I'm saying is if you look at stats based on draft position we have a small chance that Nylander is a top line player. Are people okay with that or do they expect him to be a star?

 

[Vexed]

What are peoples expectations of Nylander, remembering that he was drafted 8th overall? And I mean are you expecting a top line player, a goal scorer, what kind of points do you expect him to put up in 5 or so years?


I mean looking at the last decade or so, of players picked between 6 and 10 there is only a handful of legit top end talent(top line forward, top pairing D, goalie), rest falls under support talent (send line forward, second pairing D), and that's only counting the guys who got regular spots in the NHL.

Top end talent selected in 6-10 over the last decade, that I can think of (please add more if you can think of anyone)

• Logan Couture
• Jakub Voracek
• Oliver Ekman-Larsson
• Jeff Skinner

What I'm trying to say is that for the last decade out of 50 or so players only a handful are legit top end talent, and even if we dismiss the last 4 years, out of 30 there is a handful of top end talent selected between 6 and 10 positions.

All I'm saying is if you look at stats based on draft position we have a small chance that Nylander is a top line player. Are people okay with that or do they expect him to be a star?

I think based on what I have seen from him (which isn't a metric crap tonne) I would be happy if he was a consistent 20-40-60 player.

I think he has the raw talent to be more than that but its hard to peg him since he didn't play in the CHL to get a direct comparison to his draft class outside of the WJHC (where he was the highest scorer outside of Team Canada).

I think that if he was in the CHL he could have gone higher but I have no way of knowing that for sure.

 

[silentbob37*]

No I do think it applies to Nylander, I just think the decision should be made at camp next year and not now. Pretty simple

But Nylander WILL NOT know the Leafs system next year. That alone means he can't/shouldn't make the team. And again if we go by the Red Wings system, once guys are "ready", that just earns a call up to prove it. Even IF Nylander at 19 years old is physically and mentally a grown man, if all parts of his game are at an NHL level, if he knows the Leafs system (which will be brand new) inside and out, all that SHOULD earn him is being the #1 call up.

Is that so? Because I've actually watched him a ton since the draft, listened to him and talked with people close to him, and I can say that the dedication is definitely there. It's an opinion that is shared by a lot of people around the MODO organisation, where they were happy with his two-way commitment as a center, and Swedish posters that like me has watched him a lot.

What do you base your opinion on, I wonder?

What people who are paid to cover hockey say about him. I'm not so arrogant to believe I can evulate young players well.

And I'm very impressed you know people close to Nylander.

absolutely but if he does earn his way by being better than others he deserves a shot. Every player on and in the leafs system will be learning a new system next year so that doesn't even make sense. Nobodies arguing with you he should be on the big team if he's not ready it's just you have a pre conclusion that he won't be ready for another 3 or 4 years.

But a lot of peopel seem to have very lax-definatinos of "ready".

If we really want a system as well respected and productive at the Wings, our stands should be to the level that its next to impossible for a 19 year old to make the team.

 

[Vexed]

A hockey system doesn't take years to learn...Maybe a training camp. Of course the execution of said system is an obvious measure

 

[egd27]

Seems like there are 3 scenarios for him next year:

1. He's not NHL ready...........keep him on the Marlies

2. He is NHL ready but won't make much impact........keep him on the Marlies, save the year on the ELC

3. He is NHL ready and will make an impact........keep him on the Marlies, don't want someone up here that will help us win games

 

[Kubus]

Seems like there are 3 scenarios for him next year:

1. He's not NHL ready...........keep him on the Marlies

2. He is NHL ready but won't make much impact........keep him on the Marlies, save the year on the ELC

3. He is NHL ready and will make an impact........keep him on the Marlies, don't want someone up here that will help us win games

I think next year, he gets another full camp, a few games after, but goes down to the AHL. I think he is going to have to prove he can dominate the AHL to be brought up.

 

[silentbob37*]

A hockey system doesn't take years to learn...Maybe a training camp. Of course the execution of said system is an obvious measure

Except new year we will have a new coach, so yes at that point impossible.

And there is a difference between learning the system, and having 1-2 years experience with it so you can move up a level of hockey and fit right in with players you aren't used to playing with.

Again, the Red Wings give their prospects that long to learn their style/systems, which is why their young players can step right in and look like they belong right away.

This is what Nik Kronwall had to say about the Red Wings way of development (who played 3 years in Sweden and 102 games in the AHL after being drafted before making the NHL) - “It’s not just a player or a coach, it’s good people in the right positions. I think it’s only good for the young players.

“You get to play in Grand Rapids, which is a great city, and you get put into a system where you learn how we play the game. You are put in all kinds of situations there, whether it’s the power play, penalty killing, five-on-five, late in games, whether you’re up a goal or down a goal, you play in key situations. That really prepares you for when you get here.â€

another comment - At the same time, the system requires great patience from the prospects. It is made clear to players such as defenceman Jakub Kindl, who was a first-round pick in 2005, that it will be years before they can expect a full-time job in Detroit. He had to spend four years in Grand Rapids, waiting for a vacancy, before landing a job this season at the age of 26.

“It was tough but at the same time I tried to stay patient,†Kindl said. “Basically, it was what I knew was going to happen and then it was the best thing that could happen for me.â€

And another - “I did 2 1/2 years down there,†(the AHL) Andersson said. “I know the Red Wings’ plan. They want their guys to be ready when they get up here and I felt I was ready when I got here.â€

So who would Nylander not benefit the same way?