Speculation: Nylander Contract Discussion V

[Kiwi]

6m x 7 not a penny more

or me willi can make my day and demand a trade.

i love seeing camps like that get what they have earned

a one way ticket to watch on TV what will happen here over the next 7 seasons.

Yeah, I'm glad your not our lead negotiator

No you said he would make us trade him and that simply is not true. As we do not have to trade him at all. He is already not playing as that is why we are discussing him.,

He can demand a trade and sit on his ass doing nothing so everybody is losing including us

If this goes into the season for any length of time this is going to turn into a **** storm, I've got zero issue with leaning on the kid to get the best possible deal but let's not pretend this won't hurt us as well

Nylander did not want to sign last year and he took a chance that he would have a better yeast hoping to get more money. He did not have a bettter year so he failed to prove his value was greater then the year before.
He has no better track record at all. One player right out of the draft the other did not. In their draft plus 2 season they both produced similar number same as in their draft plus 3 years. Again similar numbers. They are currently the same.

No track record at all?

He's got 2 60 point seasons in the last 2 years of his ELC

Are you sure you know what track record means?

Your forgetting one number that has changed, the salary cap, it's kind of important in contract negotiations,
If the cap goes up salaries go up, it's basic inflation

 

[diceman934]

Yeah, I'm glad your not our lead negotiator



He can demand a trade and sit on his ass doing nothing so everybody is losing including us

If this goes into the season for any length of time this is going to turn into a **** storm, I've got zero issue with leaning on the kid to get the best possible deal but let's not pretend this won't hurt us as well



No track record at all?

He's got 2 60 point seasons in the last 2 years of his ELC

Are you sure you know what track record means?

Your forgetting one number that has changed, the salary cap, it's kind of important in contract negotiations,
If the cap goes up salaries go up, it's basic inflation

You made it seem like Willy has proved him self over what he did the previous year and that simply is not true. He did not improve his contract position over the year before. Not my opinion but a fact!
You know who else had 2 60 point seasons in his last 2 years of his ELC is the player who your are attempting to say Nylander is better then and had proved more which is not true at all.

I am not forgetting any thing when talking about contracts. You and others are missing a key element and that is salary structure with in a team. The fact that the cap has gone up only allows us to keep the players together and not to be held hostage by a single player and throw off our internal cap structure. We seen what overpaying players has done to us in the past and yet here you are arguing that we need to do so again. His comparable is clear. Same production, Same age and same draft year along with same position of importance within their teams= same cap hit.

If this goes into the season it hurts Willy and as long as we are winning and I can not see any reason why would not be winning it hurts Willy and not us. Not in any way.

He can sit in his ass and demand a trade and we can say we are not trading you. Why would we allow Willy of any player force us to trade him at a discount price. You saw what Stevie Y did right. He failed to be held hostage and they won that trade.

 

[Kiwi]

You made it seem like Willy has proved him self over what he did the previous year and that simply is not true. He did not improve his contract position over the year before. Not my opinion but a fact!
You know who else had 2 60 point seasons in his last 2 years of his ELC is the player who your are attempting to say Nylander is better then and had proved more which is not true at all.

I am not forgetting any thing when talking about contracts. You and others are missing a key element and that is salary structure with in a team. The fact that the cap has gone up only allows us to keep the players together and not to be held hostage by a single player and throw off our internal cap structure. We seen what overpaying players has done to us in the past and yet here you are arguing that we need to do so again. His comparable is clear. Same production, Same age and same draft year along with same position of importance within their teams= same cap hit.

If this goes into the season it hurts Willy and as long as we are winning and I can not see any reason why would not be winning it hurts Willy and not us. Not in any way.

He can sit in his ass and demand a trade and we can say we are not trading you. Why would we allow Willy of any player force us to trade him at a discount price. You saw what Stevie Y did right. He failed to be held hostage and they won that trade.

He's cemented himself as a 60 point player, that's a fact
That solidified his bargaining position because he doesn't have just one good year he's got 2 which helps prove what he is

You don't seem to realize that salary structure isn't just Nylander's problem, it's ours as well, if we've got a hard figure and can't negotiate on a lowball offer he's either going to fold, get traded, or get to UFA as fast as possible (like Trouba), 2 of those 3 scenarios aren't good for us

Different salary cap number, Ehlers isn't a perfect comparable because his deal was signed before the cap jumped, cap jumps salary goes up

It's as simple as that

If we come out of the gate winning Nylander sitting is going to make our bargining position stronger, if we don't his does and we're going to get reamed and Drouin was still under contract Nylander isn't, there's a difference

Do a fair deal for everybody and mitigate the risk

6.4M × 6
6.75M × 7

 

[supermann_98]

I love Willy and all but I was 55/45 on taking him over Ehlers on draft night and at this point I’d rather we had Ehlers based on the fact that he’s locked up long term on a deal that I’m fairly certain Willy has already rejected.

 

[stickty111]

He would be the one killing his own trade (and monetary) value, as well as be risking his career, Momma Nylander.

Actually the team would be killing his value by sitting him. Mrs. Marner.

See we can do the same thing.

 

[Ulysses31]

Dubas doesn't seem to hand out contracts Willy Nilly

 

[Laista]

Jeez ! All Nylander-haters assumes that ....
1. If Nylander dont accept terms he will never play in another club ever again.
2. after two seasons with 60P he has already peaked at the age of 22!
3. He Dad and not an Agent is holding Leafs hostage! Because Daddy Nylander is obvious a Monster.
4. Insert free bashing of Nylander here ----->
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(Edit)
Do you think Mathews and Marner want Nylander to sign on the first offer or do you think they will see him make a slightly higher number?
They will Bennefit from this, and NHLPA dont want players just sto sign the first offer they get.
This issue is bigger then Nylander , its about the future salaries over all.

 

[sIDEsHOW93]

Damn I sure hope Dubas and Willy are closer than y’all are.

 

[Ulysses31]

Have a feeling its something along lines of "I have to accept this low (lower than what I think I should get) contract so I'll skip training camp"

 

[13pacheco31]

I love Willy and all but I was 55/45 on taking him over Ehlers on draft night and at this point I’d rather we had Ehlers based on the fact that he’s locked up long term on a deal that I’m fairly certain Willy has already rejected.

Meh, hindsights 20/20. At the time they were pretty close, the tie breaker was that nylander was a center

 

[Nithoniniel]

There's still no reason to freak out. Negotiations last into preseason all the time, and it is only very rarely that it takes a bad turn. In most of those cases there are underlying issues, like Trouba not wanting to live in Winnipeg. Nylander on the other hand loves Toronto, both the team and the city. He wants to be here.

The only thing that happens here is that the longer this lasts, the better our chances of getting a good contract if you judge by historical comparisons.

 

[hullsy47]

He's cemented himself as a 60 point player, that's a fact
That solidified his bargaining position because he doesn't have just one good year he's got 2 which helps prove what he is

You don't seem to realize that salary structure isn't just Nylander's problem, it's ours as well, if we've got a hard figure and can't negotiate on a lowball offer he's either going to fold, get traded, or get to UFA as fast as possible (like Trouba), 2 of those 3 scenarios aren't good for us

Different salary cap number, Ehlers isn't a perfect comparable because his deal was signed before the cap jumped, cap jumps salary goes up

It's as simple as that

If we come out of the gate winning Nylander sitting is going to make our bargining position stronger, if we don't his does and we're going to get reamed and Drouin was still under contract Nylander isn't, there's a difference

Do a fair deal for everybody and mitigate the risk

6.4M × 6
6.75M × 7

id take 6,4 0ver 5 with a full movement and zero lockout protection .its pretty obvious the leafs place nylander 4/5 along with kadri in order of depth at forward .
we clamored for a kid team ,well folks good team with good depth comes with these type decisions
IMO kapanen or jonnson at 40 points would net the same results as nylander with 60 ,
its reality ,in all fairness to willy ,maybe in Arizona or Ottawa hed get his 7-8 mil .
isn't happening in Toronto,

 

[Walshy7]

Both coming off 60 point seasons. Larkin drove his own line as a C last year.

they are extremely close overall value.

that's not how contracts work, if the leafs say "Larkin drove his own line as a C last year" nylanders camp rightly says its not a comparable, A: in points and B: position its not a comparable no matter how valuable larkin is

 

[Confucius]

id take 6,4 0ver 5 with a full movement and zero lockout protection .its pretty obvious the leafs place nylander 4/5 along with kadri in order of depth at forward .
we clamored for a kid team ,well folks good team with good depth comes with these type decisions
IMO kapanen or jonnson at 40 points would net the same results as nylander with 60 ,
its reality ,in all fairness to willy ,maybe in Arizona or Ottawa hed get his 7-8 mil .
isn't happening in Toronto,

Probably couldn't have picked 2 worse examples. Those teams are cheap as hell and are counting every penny to make the floor.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Nylander got 5 more goals than Hyman last year. Not exactly roll out the red carpet territory. I was in favor of hardballing him and that is what Is happening. It would be a mistake to overpay for Nylander.

Leafs are a playoff team and you need players who will go the extra mile when needed. Marner will.

I really would prefer to keep him. I have no problem having him out well into the season.

I think it is possible he is not on Babcock's A list and that impacts what the team will offer him.

 

[TeamBester]

Dubas doesn't seem to hand out contracts Willy Nilly

Maybe get Nonis back here, and they can get this done.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Dubas will have lots of negotiating power when Matthews still scores while Nylander is out.

 

[Nineteen67]

If I was Nylander I would be OK with a 3 year bridge filled with July bonuses unless I knew the NHLPA is not planning to open the CBA

 

[Notsince67]

If I was Nylander I would be OK with a 3 year bridge filled with July bonuses unless I knew the NHLPA is not planning to open the CBA

A 3 year bridge might help Willy get his $$ in the long run but it might speed a trade out of Toronto. Things change quickly in hockey and the risk of a higher contract for him might be a factor in considering an internal replacement when Willy slumps.

 

[613Leafer]

If a reasonable long-term contract can't be signed, then hopefully we can get at least a 3 year bridge deal done, and avoid a 1-2 year deal. Gives us plenty of time to test out the current core and let the blueline develop.

Then 3 years from now, we could either try to re-sign him long-term if our blueline looks solid, move him primarily for high potential picks/prospects to manage the cap + depth + hopefully get a long-term good core piece (e.g. see Duchene trade for Colorado), or move him for a significant upgrade on the blueline (e.g. Columbus acquiring Seth Jones).

 

[ZEBROA]

He will sign and the haters will still hate, no matter the outcome.

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

I called this before anyone, and isn't it fairly obvious why? I think, yes, he does love a lot about Toronto, but he didn't like, nor did his father like, the way he would get dropped down to the fourth line. Which was often.

So yeah, he has some problems with Bobcat and vice versa. Its pretty obvious.

So Dubas, knowing that Shanahan probably wouldn't dare fire Babcock anytime soon, has to tread carefully on this contract.

Imagine being Dubas giving this young kid the huge bucks and then suddenly Babcock does the predictable and starts playing him on the fourth line again?

Dubas will look like the goof, not so much Babcock.

I think Dubas is seriously considering bridging this kid, cause of how much can go wrong here.

I feel for Dubas on this one. Almost no way to win with this one.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Why do so many folks this is "Dubas versus Nylander" conflict. It isn't Dubas, but a Leaf management position. Certainly the Leafs and Nylander have done nothing wrong.....it's negotiations and I doubt if one side feels they are being unfair.
Nylander has options....he can sign with the Leafs, or with 30 NHL teams, or play in the Europeans leagues or ball hockey.

Why do folks feel it up to Dubas, (the Leafs) have to bridge Nylander? Look at the facts, it's two parties that have to sign the contract and both sides have to agree, it isn't anything one side can impose on the other. A bridge will be anything from one to four years and Nylander is UFA in five years. Odds are both sides will agree to bridge deal, and probably both sides will be somewhat unhappy with it. But such is the nature of contracts.

 

[Mess]

Dubas doesn't seem to hand out contracts Willy Nilly

I see what you did there.

Rookie GM = contract issue = no big surprise.

Player agents are going to play hard ball tactics with a greenhorn GM to test the fences and get the most for their client.

Lets see who cracks first in this one.

 

[Morbo]

I see what you did there.

Rookie GM = contract issue = no big surprise.

Player agents are going to play hard ball tactics with a greenhorn GM to test the fences and get the most for their client.

Lets see who cracks first in this one.

Please explain how there would be no contract issue with a different GM.