Speculation: Nylander Contract Discussion Pt II - Any Day Now...

[Stephen]

I disagree.

Nylander is the most naturally talented Leaf player. The ease in which he dominates proves this. Nylander has a poor work ethic which translates to untrustworthy. Nylander disappeared at the start of the Boston series, then changed his engagement levels, he was night and day different. Do the Leafs want to watch Nylander leave some of his potential on the table due to his on ice compete level? Is Nylander a trustworthy player that u can rely and know 100% that he will bring it during the playoffs and regular season?

No one on this board knows if Nylander will get 61 points this year or get 85. 85 is easily attainable for a player like him. Thats why his 61 points is far different than if Kadri put up 61 points. Again, Nylander has underachieved so far in his career from a compete level standpoint. Its very tough for Nylander supporters to call it like it is with him.

Tavares might be able to bring more out of Nylander than Matthews. Tavares will be content with Nylander shooting the puck more often, compared to how Matthews would feel if Nylander shoots more. Nylander I think has been told to be the playmaker on Matthews line and I dont think he likes that role vs being a 50-50 shooter/playmaker depending on the situation. This may keep Willy engaged and competing and Tavares might know how to light a spark under Nylander, saying the right things to him calmly to pick his game up. Bottom line is the Leafs can not be content accepting his big swings in compete level for the duration of his career. Nylander will be traded 100% if he keeps disappearing at random times, reg season, playoffs, whenever he wants. I do not think Nylander will come close to maximizing his potential. I think he is somewhat content with his production and justifies taking nights off when he wants.

I really do think you need to take a step back and realize most skilled players at Nylander's age and contract status and experience are still learning to be productive NHLers, not flawless superstars.

Nylander has a ton of non skill, non production things to work on, but the developmental system isn't just there to spin AHLers into serviceable players, it's also to try and maximize the potential of high ceiling guys like Nylander.

To put things into perspective for you, Alexander Ovechkin was drafted a full decade before Nylander and has only put it all together as a playoff performer and champion this year. In 2018. So let's give him some time.

 

[Stephen]

I think some are ignoring the fact he hasn't been lined up beside NHL veterans his 2 seasons in the NHL.

Matthews and Nylander have pulled their weight together, neither has played with 2 NHL veterans for their careers.

Yeah, compared to someone like Pastrnak is who is being babysat by Bergeron and Marchand, Nylander and Matthews have had to figure out the NHL together since day one. Their veteran supervision has been Zach Hyman. And they've done a great job.

 

[FlareKnight]

At this point just continuing to wait for the news. Could be a long term deal, short deal, around 7 million, in the mid to low 6 million range, who knows. I think fair arguments have been made for a variety of possible end results.

The good thing is that a deal will get done and we are fine for this coming season regardless. Just want to see him and the rest of the team on the ice.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I really do think you need to take a step back and realize most skilled players at Nylander's age and contract status and experience are still learning to be productive NHLers, not flawless superstars.

Nylander has a ton of non skill, non production things to work on, but the developmental system isn't just there to spin AHLers into serviceable players, it's also to try and maximize the potential of high ceiling guys like Nylander.

To put things into perspective for you, Alexander Ovechkin was drafted a full decade before Nylander and has only put it all together as a playoff performer and champion this year. In 2018. So let's give him some time.

Let me know when u begin that process. Nylander is giving up 20% of his potential right now. COMPETE HARD. Thats all. The joke is on everyone when Nylander disappears from Game 9 till Game 17 for unknown reasons and skates at 80% and looks a shadow of himself. Before scoring a hat trick and 2 assists in Game 18.

 

[DarkKnight]

I really do think you need to take a step back and realize most skilled players at Nylander's age and contract status and experience are still learning to be productive NHLers, not flawless superstars.

Nylander has a ton of non skill, non production things to work on, but the developmental system isn't just there to spin AHLers into serviceable players, it's also to try and maximize the potential of high ceiling guys like Nylander.

To put things into perspective for you, Alexander Ovechkin was drafted a full decade before Nylander and has only put it all together as a playoff performer and champion this year. In 2018. So let's give him some time.

What you've said here is actually a good rationale for not breaking the bank with Nylander just yet....I want periods not question marks if I'm doling out 7 mil a year.

 

[ULF_55]

What you've said here is actually a good rationale for not breaking the bank with Nylander just yet....I want periods not question marks if I'm doling out 7 mil a year.

It would be nice to pay for performance alone, but unfortunately, that isn't how top end kids get paid in the NHL today.

They get paid based on what they project to be based on a small sample size, even a sheltered small sample size.

 

[4thline]

I doubt Nylander will buckle and agree to a 7×6.2 without some serious pressure being exerted by management

I'd go as high as 6.5, but if he's not willing to slot in line with Ehlers/Pasta/Larkin then maintain the cap structure and get him cheapish for 3-4 years then cash out. Unless him and Marner are collectively bargaining (or Mitch is ready to go super team friendly) there's too much at stake to cave high with Willie. We need them at ~14 combined, not 18.

 

[stickty111]

Let me know when u begin that process. Nylander is giving up 20% of his potential right now. COMPETE HARD. Thats all. The joke is on everyone when Nylander disappears from Game 9 till Game 17 for unknown reasons and skates at 80% and looks a shadow of himself. Before scoring a hat trick and 2 assists in Game 18.

He is giving 100% of his potential right now. The joke is on you when Nylander shows up for the entire season, and plays at a great level.

 

[Stephen]

What you've said here is actually a good rationale for not breaking the bank with Nylander just yet....I want periods not question marks if I'm doling out 7 mil a year.

I think we would be pretty lucky to get away with a $7 million long term deal for Nylander. It could be worse if our kids are shooting to be overpaid like Draisatl and Eichel were in the wake of the McDavid signing.

The same logic applies to Marner. He had a great second half but looked like an OHLer for a couple of months to start the year. Would we overpay if he’s a chronic slow starter?

 

[Stephen]

Let me know when u begin that process. Nylander is giving up 20% of his potential right now. COMPETE HARD. Thats all. The joke is on everyone when Nylander disappears from Game 9 till Game 17 for unknown reasons and skates at 80% and looks a shadow of himself. Before scoring a hat trick and 2 assists in Game 18.

If you’ve been watching hockey long enough you see this pattern come up with young skill players on glamorous offensively inclined teams. They run into a veteran playoff team that makes them look terrible, and two things can happen.

The shortsighted management teams panic trade their stars for defense, grit, heart, etc.

The smarter teams accept the growing pains and reap the rewards in time.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think we would be pretty lucky to get away with a $7 million long term deal for Nylander. It could be worse if our kids are shooting to be overpaid like Draisatl and Eichel were in the wake of the McDavid signing.

The same logic applies to Marner. He had a great second half but looked like an OHLer for a couple of months to start the year. Would we overpay if he’s a chronic slow starter?

I'll consider it a fail if Dubas gives Nylander 7. As for Marner, "he looked like an OHLer" really doesn't deserve a rebuttal.

 

[DarkKnight]

It would be nice to pay for performance alone, but unfortunately, that isn't how top end kids get paid in the NHL today.

They get paid based on what they project to be based on a small sample size, even a sheltered small sample size.

I look at it this way as well, if we didn't sign Kadri and Reilly to good deals, we wouldn't even have the cash for Willie. Those deals look great now, it was only 2 years ago and teams are learning that paying the big deal too early can be a big mistake.

 

[Svanstrom]

I'm sure a lot of the Nylander critics won't agree with this article Toronto Maple Leafs: William Nylander Still Not Getting Traded
Get your frustrations out bois!

 

[Menzinger]

to be fair and just a counter -

I would find it very odd if (on the bean-couter side) - that that performance didn't come up at all.

second, fundamentally we can play out the "sophomore" card, that only goes so far, or it should. There were sophomores (and rookies) on Boston who played better than he did.

i'd argue that playoff performances do count for something (or should) in contract negotiations.

I totally agree that it definitely should be taken into account - but we’re also talking about a sophomore player here, and I think its silly for to radically alter a POV of a guy based on 3-4 subpar games

 

[hotpaws]

I'm sure a lot of the Nylander critics won't agree with this article Toronto Maple Leafs: William Nylander Still Not Getting Traded
Get your frustrations out bois!

who's James Tanner ?

and why should anyone give a f*** what he says ?

also i doubt the majority of Leaf fans think Willie's getting traded

 

[hotpaws]

I look at it this way as well, if we didn't sign Kadri and Reilly to good deals, we wouldn't even have the cash for Willie. Those deals look great now, it was only 2 years ago and teams are learning that paying the big deal too early can be a big mistake.

we did pay big for Kadri and to a degree Rielly at the time , LL banked on them improving both are out performing there contracts

 

[DarkKnight]

we did pay big for Kadri and to a degree Rielly at the time , LL banked on them improving both are out performing there contracts

Really you thought those were big deals? I didn't. And what's wrong with Nylander "out performing" his contract?

 

[Kiwi]

I'd go as high as 6.5, but if he's not willing to slot in line with Ehlers/Pasta/Larkin then maintain the cap structure and get him cheapish for 3-4 years then cash out. Unless him and Marner are collectively bargaining (or Mitch is ready to go super team friendly) there's too much at stake to cave high with Willie. We need them at ~14 combined, not 18.

I think if we sit him out and wait we can get him at 6-6.5M×6/7 years

We don't have to cave, he's an RFA without arbitration rights so unless this thing goes full Trouba were in the drivers seat

 

[diceman934]

I really do think you need to take a step back and realize most skilled players at Nylander's age and contract status and experience are still learning to be productive NHLers, not flawless superstars.

Nylander has a ton of non skill, non production things to work on, but the developmental system isn't just there to spin AHLers into serviceable players, it's also to try and maximize the potential of high ceiling guys like Nylander.

To put things into perspective for you, Alexander Ovechkin was drafted a full decade before Nylander and has only put it all together as a playoff performer and champion this year. In 2018. So let's give him some time.

Lol tell me the last time that Ovi avoided taking a check in the playoffs.

 

[hotpaws]

Really you thought those were big deals? I didn't. And what's wrong with Nylander "out performing" his contract?

Kadri was coming off 45 and 39 pt seasons and had never scored 20goals soyea signing him to a 27m over 6yr deal was a pretty big deal and a gamble that he'd up his game just like Rielly was also a gamble that he'd up his game when we gave him 30m 0ver 6yrs .

also who said there was anything wrong with Nylander out performing his new contract ? i'm just getting tired of some of our fans shitting on him because of some warped belief that it'll help to sign him to a team friendly contract

and this being said i hope all 3 of our kids give huge discounts but i won't hold it against them if they try to sign for what they're worth

 

[Liminality]

Really you thought those were big deals? I didn't. And what's wrong with Nylander "out performing" his contract?

I think everyone was surprised and ecstatic at the time of the signings. I'm sure most people thought they were great deals that day.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/player-discussion-morgan-rielly-in-for-the-long-haul.2058475/
Still fun to go back and see how things were perceived back then.

 

[kb]

I don't think he signs long term for under 7.75 since Marner will probably get 8 or more after playing a year on such a stacked team. Marner could crack 85 points.

1 x 6.5 is what I expect to see at this point then he can have one more year to compare himself to Marner.

There is not one single comparable that makes that much. And Leafs management can point out his numbers with and without Matthews if they want to really tighten down the screws.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

If Nylander wants more than Pasta's contract he is just being greedy and that is hard to negotiate with.

Pasta was pacing for like 75+ points before his contract while nylander put up like 62 points.

 

[Gabriel426]

Still don’t understand why people want to trade Willie.
I don’t buy that let’s sell him high now before other GMs noticed his weakness. Think Chia did that twice- Sequin and Hall, and it really didn’t work out too great.
I also don’t get the Willie must go for cap reason, since unless the other player coming back is Dahlin on ELC, don’t think any of the Dman coming our way will be cheap.
Now I am all for making the right deal for the Leafs to win but I don’t think the time is now to deal Willie. Let’s the kids play a season or two with vets like JT a and Kardi and see how far they go before pulling the trigger on any of the kids.
Don’t let the 2 yrs in a row 1st round exits fool you about the team. Since they were not even suppose to be in the playoffs against the no.1 seed Caps two years ago and Bruins was the better team(record wise) than the Leafs this past season. It is not like they were the fav going into playoffs and crashed out. If I told you the Leafs will make the playoffs in Matthews rookie season and they will be a 105pts team the year after that after winning the lottery, none of you would believe me and most of you will say the Leafs will be lucky to make the playoffs in three years. Let’s the kids grow and mature.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Still don’t understand why people want to trade Willie.
I don’t buy that let’s sell him high now before other GMs noticed his weakness. Think Chia did that twice- Sequin and Hall, and it really didn’t work out too great.
I also don’t get the Willie must go for cap reason, since unless the other player coming back is Dahlin on ELC, don’t think any of the Dman coming our way will be cheap.
Now I am all for making the right deal for the Leafs to win but I don’t think the time is now to deal Willie. Let’s the kids play a season or two with vets like JT a and Kardi and see how far they go before pulling the trigger on any of the kids.
Don’t let the 2 yrs in a row 1st round exits fool you about the team. Since they were not even suppose to be in the playoffs against the no.1 seed Caps two years ago and Bruins was the better team(record wise) than the Leafs this past season. It is not like they were the fav going into playoffs and crashed out. If I told you the Leafs will make the playoffs in Matthews rookie season and they will be a 105pts team the year after that after winning the lottery, none of you would believe me and most of you will say the Leafs will be lucky to make the playoffs in three years. Let’s the kids grow and mature.

What I find funny is did people expect the Leafs to go from dead last in the league to winning the cup in the next 2 years or even making the conference finals?