Nylander Chronicles Part XXVI: Who caves first? Nylander, Dubas, or Bert?

[HamiltonNHL]

Aho or 4 1st round picks. Hmmm. I think I like the picks.

we are a win now team with Tavares.
Picks aren't helpful

 

[jrgtml67]

You know all these Willie thing would end if Auston comes out with a 10mil contract and Marner extends at 7mil.
It will leave Willie no choice but to sign at 6.5 or 7 at most.

Lol wont happen. Marner is going to get 90 to 100 points no problem. Matthews will not get any less then JT..just wont happen.

But the 2 trades I heard of Brett Pesce "all in," whatever that means and David Pagnotta saying Pearson and Muzzin..dont make sense. Especially the later. The 2 LA guys make 7.65 put together..so that's not happening unless we include a guy that makes over 1.5mill. Then the Carolina thing "all in," Pesce is good but Jake Muzzin is better and Pesce makes 4million..so if they added a player of any skill itd be over 7mill for those 2. Unless its Pesce and a 1st which would make sense then.

I still think IF willie does sign itll be 2 or 3 other players we have traded. Jt said he came here to add not substract so I get the feeling unless Nylander is being that much of a stubborn idiot we will sign him. This week and next are huge if by this time 2 weeks from now he isnt signed I think he's traded. No way do we want him sitting or risking injury in the KHL. I have a feeling Dubas knew this was coming. Said on the fan590 it may take a lot longer than a lot of people, fans, want it to take

 

[Marshy]

we are a win now team with Tavares.
Picks aren't helpful

Management has stated they want to contend perennially. Picks are always helpful. They can also be used as currency to help buy what we need without depleting the talent pipeline.

 

[egd27]

Leafs match, horrible to take 4 late firsts for Willie when we are entering/in prime cup chasing hockey.

Such a narrow view.

1 pure speculation they’d be late round picks

2 4 assets can be used many ways

Put another way, how would you feel about giving up 4 firsts for Ehlers? (Pretty close comparable based on the stats)

 

[jrgtml67]

He said on the fan590 late in September this ; "what's the deadline,"? "Well I guess dec 1st because that's the hard date or else he sits." "I think its patience, I think when you're trying to sign a guy like him it takes time, it may take LONGER than MOST people would want.

That last part is key. I think he knew it would drag on. Now ask this. He met Gross in NY a couple weeks ago. We heard it was good dialogue and progress was made. We got excited, yet no deal yet. That meeting was huge. Dubas is very intelligent, I think if he thought after that, that Nylander wouldn't sign, he would have been signed and traded by now or traded with deal hinging on his John Hancock.

Problem is all we have is speculation. We can argue back and forth but know one knows anything. All we know is the deadline is less than a month away. That reportedly Carolina is all in and that LA has apparently made an offer.

We also know that Babcock has said several hundred times when asked, these things eventually work out. Dubas said what I quoted him on. The key also is they keep saying he is a core piece. So option 1 he signs, stays we trade others to make $ work (not saying he will get over 7 and that we cut out others) but saying the $ dont work with him at 6.5m letting Jake walk..the Marner 8 and Matthew's 12. We would be over by 7mill even with a cap of 85mill.

Or option 2, traded but it has to be a homerun.

Or 3 he sits the year.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Management has stated they want to contend perennially. Picks are always helpful.

You don't pick up a high paid UFA and then acquire picks.

 

[Stephen]

I don’t disagree.

I was just getting at the point that an aho for Nylander trade seems an unrealistic possibility for either side

During the Dark Ages of Cliff Fletcher, Brian Burke, Dave Nonis, etc, I always thought it was funny how the Leafs would set their sights on very specific acquisition targets like Rob Blake, Wendel Clark (when he was with the Islanders), Mike Craig, Phil Kessel, Roberto Luongo, etc. and more often than not when they made a deal, they got ripped off.

From what it sounds like, the Carolina Hurricanes are the ones who want to make a deal. So a deal can be had, but only if it's extremely destructive to their own roster. So I agree that a deal involving Nylander to Carolina would have to be so ridiculously good for Toronto that we have to jump on it, and not some rinky dink Brett Pesce deal.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Such a narrow view.

1 pure speculation they’d be late round picks

2 4 assets can be used many ways

Put another way, how would you feel about giving up 4 firsts for Ehlers? (Pretty close comparable based on the stats)

don't like this opinion, you don't let an elite young player like Willie go for draft picks. The Leafs are positioning to make a cup run this season.

 

[hotpaws]

Maybe because Dubas wouldn't discuss ongoing negotiations with one of their players with other teams and possibly taint it by painting a bad picture about one side or the other?

Dubas learned a lot from Lou, not the least of which is controlling the flow of information around the team. That's been an ongoing and very welcomed approach since Lou took over the helm. No reason whatsoever to believe anything like that will change regarding this situation.

The only real and believable information is a presser from the team about either a signing or a trade. Everything else is pure pie in the sky speculation.

You seem to be ignoring that...

they don't have to talk to Dubas or ask his permission to speak to Gross , if they were interested in Nylander all they have to do is call his agent to see what he's looking for and if i were GM that would be the first call i made before i contacted the Leafs about askig to see if he was available in a trade

 

[hotpaws]

Talk is cheap Hotpaws. Either a team puts in an offersheet or Nylander caves. It's all he has left is some 7m+ offer that has compensation of 1st 2nd 3rd which is cheap for him. At that point if someone does that to us we just up it a dollar if it's the max and do the 8x8. Yes it hurts but if that team does that, say the Canes, we do the same to every player they have coming up and we have more money. We win this war.

you need the necessary cap space to sign a player to an offer sheet and we won't have any after we sign M&M

 

[Kiwi]

The draft isnt the only place where you take BPA.

If someone offers a great forward thats going to be here long term and no one offers a dman that brings similar or more value as the forward, you take the forward.

And your defense still sucks

If nobody offers an acceptable defenseman for Nylander you just don't trade him, trading him for another forward is a sideways move at best since your highly unlikely to get a better forward than Nylander coming back

 

[Marshy]

You don't pick up a high paid UFA and then acquire picks.

Not to stockpile picks and use them all on draft day. Wasn't implying that.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

" i like to take things slow". Dubas

 

[hotpaws]

There is just as much if not more to suggest that Willie's ask is off the planet.

Remember the 4ish million offer was for a short term RFA only contract which isn't out of ordinary for RFA contracts for players of his caliber.

This negotiation is as much about Marner's and Matthews' contracts as it is about Willie's

if Willies ask was off the planet why would any team be interested in trading for him especially a cheap ass club like the Cane's ?

4ish over 4 yrs is very low when you consider Larkin got 6.1m x 5 yrs and if the team is just over 4m per for 4 yrs how much are they at for 5/6yrs ?

 

[Gabriel426]

Lol wont happen. Marner is going to get 90 to 100 points no problem. Matthews will not get any less then JT..just wont happen.

But the 2 trades I heard of Brett Pesce "all in," whatever that means and David Pagnotta saying Pearson and Muzzin..dont make sense. Especially the later. The 2 LA guys make 7.65 put together..so that's not happening unless we include a guy that makes over 1.5mill. Then the Carolina thing "all in," Pesce is good but Jake Muzzin is better and Pesce makes 4million..so if they added a player of any skill itd be over 7mill for those 2. Unless its Pesce and a 1st which would make sense then.

I still think IF willie does sign itll be 2 or 3 other players we have traded. Jt said he came here to add not substract so I get the feeling unless Nylander is being that much of a stubborn idiot we will sign him. This week and next are huge if by this time 2 weeks from now he isnt signed I think he's traded. No way do we want him sitting or risking injury in the KHL. I have a feeling Dubas knew this was coming. Said on the fan590 it may take a lot longer than a lot of people, fans, want it to take

Not sure will Matthews get what JT is getting. JT is more accomplished and been in the League for longer. Matthews will get around 10mil.
Have a feeling Marner might get a bridge just to get paid 2-3yrs down the line.

 

[hockeynorth]

" i like to take things slow". Dubas

- Stick boy to GM
- 100 page plan for GM job interview (can't remember if it was leafs or greyhounds)
- Trade back if possible, can waiting longer for cap savings be considered a trade back
I just picture his little trade back nod, and how much I love Sandin now vs how much I hated the pick at the time whenever I get nervous. Works like a charm.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

with or without willy do you really think we wont make moves to improve the team at the trade deadline.

we could absolutely use the draft picks in any deal with willy to pick up what we need at the deadline.

willy for pesche necas and 1st

use the first and whatever at the deadline to pick up a rental
like panarin

 

[BertCorbeau]

if Willies ask was off the planet why would any team be interested in trading for him especially a cheap ass club like the Cane's ?

4ish over 4 yrs is very low when you consider Larkin got 6.1m x 5 yrs and if the team is just over 4m per for 4 yrs how much are they at for 5/6yrs ?

It's been reported that the Canes are willing to spend money on players that they feel would be worth it.

They could be really high on Nylander's potential (like Nashville was on RyJo) and pay him anyway.

Also consider their GM is Don Waddell.

 

[Gabriel426]

Such a narrow view.

1 pure speculation they’d be late round picks

2 4 assets can be used many ways

Put another way, how would you feel about giving up 4 firsts for Ehlers? (Pretty close comparable based on the stats)

If it is the Canes 4 1st rounders, it might be a good deal bc 1. They are in a division which unless an injury crisis happens, 3 teams will always make the playoffs the next 4 years. Then you have Flyers and Devils who are ahead of them. They might make the playoffs two of the next four years at most, which would means 2 lottery picks and it is possible to have a top three picks from those two picks.

 

[Trapper]

It's been reported that the Canes are willing to spend money on players that they feel would be worth it.

They could be really high on Nylander's potential (like Nashville was on RyJo) and pay him anyway.

Also consider their GM is Don Waddell.

There is no reason the Canes can’t pay Nylander 7.5 and Aho 8-9 if we are paying Matthews/Tavares 11 a piece.
They have their D locked up and no other significant high salaries like Marner + Nylander in addition.

 

[hockeynorth]

with or without willy do you really think we wont make moves to improve the team at the trade deadline.

we could absolutely use the draft picks in any deal with willy to pick up what we need at the deadline.

willy for pesche necas and 1st

use the first and whatever at the deadline to pick up a rental
like panarin

If that is the deal I say yes every time. Necas is a very solid prospect who I'd probably call up right away to play on the wing. The first we can flip flip for something or keep and draft a solid wing prospect.

 

[nuck]

If it is the Canes 4 1st rounders, it might be a good deal bc 1. They are in a division which unless an injury crisis happens, 3 teams will always make the playoffs the next 4 years. Then you have Flyers and Devils who are ahead of them. They might make the playoffs two of the next four years at most, which would means 2 lottery picks and it is possible to have a top three picks from those two picks.

Thats my thought. Willie is not a big enough producer to make those into four bad picks the way that Matthews could in Phoenix. The Leafs would be free to throw their own 1sts around in deals for immediate help in a way they couldn't currently consider.

 

[Superstar]

i guess we should just stick with the Willie is being unreasonable bs even though half the league doesn't have a problem paying what he's asking for if given the chance to trade for him

If Nylander was being reasonable with his demands, then those teams could offer sheet him for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, which they would gladly pay...but there's none of that going on. Other teams wouldn't be doing their homework if they aren't showing interest to an unsigned Nylander...tire kicking is also a thing, you know.

 

[hotpaws]

If Nylander was being reasonable with his demands, then those teams could offer sheet him for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, which they would gladly pay...but there's none of that going on. Other teams wouldn't be doing their homework if they aren't showing interest to an unsigned Nylander...tire kicking is also a thing, you know.

why would a team sign him to an offer sheet when the Raps would just match ?

but hopefully you're right and he is being unreasonable with his contract demands , no one's willing to trade for him and he sits out the entire season

that's much better even if it hurts the team than believing Dubas is squeezing him to try to fit as many quality players under the cap as possible

 

[Superstar]

What I mean is a team can go all the way up to 7.99m or whatever and only pay us 1st 2nd 3rd. We have to match because 1st 2nd 3rd is bad value back for William.

Sure, but the team would actually have to think that Willy is worth almost $8 million a year to do it...though think about it...would you pay Willy almost $8 million per AND give up a 1st, 2nd and 3rd? I don't see it.