NY voters to decide on plan for new hockey arena (Islanders); UPD referendum defeated

[LadyStanley]

http://www.islanderspointblank.com/...ssau-still-owns-development-beyond-new-arena/

So there can be no misunderstanding, Charles Wang’s representatives this week included an amendment in the lease agreement with Nassau County. The county retains all development rights to the property beyond any potential new arena. The Islanders do not have the development rights. If there is any development, a parking garage for event attendees must be part of it.

 

[CBJ goalie]

Uh oh, are we going to see another 'GWI'-like blockade?

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news...press-hkn_nassau_coliseum_development-7642605

Even if voters approve the proposal, there are still major hurdles. The county legislature must sign off on the borrowing, as does a state fiscal watchdog, which earlier this year declared a fiscal emergency in Nassau, citing a soaring county budget deficit.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.islanderspointblank.com/...ior-to-monday-youll-see-what-youre-voting-on/

Renderings of proposed arena supposed to be revealed before Monday's vote.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Uh oh, are we going to see another 'GWI'-like blockade?

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news...press-hkn_nassau_coliseum_development-7642605

I doubt it, as I don't think that there are any New York statutes in place that would prevent the Islanders deal going through, given how vetted it's been over the past months and the fact that it'd be a voter referendum. The group might raise a stink over it, but it's not like it'd be the Glendale situation where Goldwater actually has a strong claim against the legality of the proposed public bond issue.

 

[kdb209]

Uh oh, are we going to see another 'GWI'-like blockade?

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news...press-hkn_nassau_coliseum_development-7642605

That "state fiscal watchdog" is nothing like GWI and NY has nothing like the AZ Constitution's Gift Clause.

GWI is a private partisan organization with an anti tax agenda pursuing it's goals through the courts.

NIFA (Nassau Interim Finance Authority) is a state board appointed to oversee Nassau County finances.

This is not an issue of lawsuits to block an alleged illegal act, but rather a gov't oversight board which would likely have to sign off on selling the bonds.

 

[LadyStanley]

ChrisBottaNHL 12:55pm via Web Gary Bettman statement: Nassau should vote YES. Team's "long-term future in Nassau County hangs in the balance."




http://www.newsday.com/opinion/editorial-vote-yes-for-new-nassau-arena-1.3061481


Newsday editorial supporting arena vote

 

[Confucius]

The Isles lease is up in 2015.
Wang (and Bettman) have both said the Isles will not stay in the building one minute longer than they have to.

Bettman also said no teams will be moving. Winnipeg was a one off. I guess it comes down to which Bettman we should believe.

 

[Killion]

Bettman also said no teams will be moving. Winnipeg was a one off. I guess it comes down to which Bettman we should believe.

Theres that of course. But I mean really, even if the Nassau County voters decide against it, Mr.Wang has at least positioned himself rather nicely to get top dollar in a local sale having claimed losses in excess of $250M since buying the team, able to use the excuse that the only reason he's selling is because he cant get his arena & ball park built. There are at least 2 suitors waiting in the wings who will no doubt be considerably more flexible in using private financing to build a new facility so I wouldnt exactly be pushing the panic button over this one. Frankly my feeling is the guy wants out, period, regardless of whether or not the referendum succeeds or not.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...throw-support-behind-islanders-arena-project/

Devils put their support forward

 

[Roomtemperature]

Theres that of course. But I mean really, even if the Nassau County voters decide against it, Mr.Wang has at least positioned himself rather nicely to get top dollar in a local sale having claimed losses in excess of $250M since buying the team, able to use the excuse that the only reason he's selling is because he cant get his arena & ball park built. There are at least 2 suitors waiting in the wings who will no doubt be considerably more flexible in using private financing to build a new facility so I wouldnt exactly be pushing the panic button over this one. Frankly my feeling is the guy wants out, period, regardless of whether or not the referendum succeeds or not.

Did Wang want to build the Lighthouse project with private financing but was stopped by the politicians and then this came along where they just do the arena and ball field.

 

[Killion]

Did Wang want to build the Lighthouse project with private financing but was stopped by the politicians and then this came along where they just do the arena and ball field.

Not to my knowledge. He's been after tax payer backed subsidies from the get-go.

 

[knorthern knight]

Did Wang want to build the Lighthouse project with private financing but was stopped by the politicians and then this came along where they just do the arena and ball field.

There was a quid pro quo about allowing him to do a huge development. I don't understand why that was turned down.

 

[hskates21*]

There was a quid pro quo about allowing him to do a huge development. I don't understand why that was turned down.

It was turned down because the county executive was a democrat and Kate murrary the town supervisor was a republican and didn't want to make the democrats look good so she turned it down waited for mangano a republican to take over as county executive so it will now be considered a good move by republicans and the problem now is the democrats who were for it are now against it simply because republicans are in charge

 

[manisback121]

It was turned down because the county executive was a democrat and Kate murrary the town supervisor was a republican and didn't want to make the democrats look good so she turned it down waited for mangano a republican to take over as county executive so it will now be considered a good move by republicans and the problem now is the democrats who were for it are now against it simply because republicans are in charge

That's pretty much all you need to know about long island politics.

This thing passes, for money involved and revenues on line. There are Isles fans who wont go cuz of purely the mauseleum. Wang Will ressurect team after new building.

 

[Dolemite]

As I understand the story, following Jay Jacobs interview fasco on WFAN (link to interview), he sent this out to democrats in Nassau County to vote no on the arena vote.

http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/BDGallof/~TDqH4

How did this guy get elected?

 

[KevFu]

Bettman also said no teams will be moving. Winnipeg was a one off. I guess it comes down to which Bettman we should believe.

Well, you need to understand that Bettman's going to side with owners getting stadiums from taxpayers. That prevents relocation.

So, for Bettman to say (for the umpteenth time) that the Islanders have no other options if there's no new arena built that opens in 2016, is the no-brainer obvious statement from him.

He said the same thing with Pittsburgh:

"...we all know the Penguins have to have a new building," Bettman said during a preseason teleconference.

"With new owners and with a new building, my belief is that the future of the Penguins in Pittsburgh is both warm and bright. We don't want to see that team move."

"The only thing that would drive us out of town would be the inability of those in charge -- government entities -- to provide a new building as they provided with the Steelers and Pirates."

That's the league's standard response: No one's leaving... unless you can't get an arena deal done, then you're losing your team.

And it HAS to be that stance, because the politicians don't stop playing politics and actually get something done UNTIL the team has a foot out the door.

Theres that of course. But I mean really, even if the Nassau County voters decide against it, Mr.Wang has at least positioned himself rather nicely to get top dollar in a local sale having claimed losses in excess of $250M since buying the team, able to use the excuse that the only reason he's selling is because he cant get his arena & ball park built. There are at least 2 suitors waiting in the wings who will no doubt be considerably more flexible in using private financing to build a new facility so I wouldnt exactly be pushing the panic button over this one. Frankly my feeling is the guy wants out, period, regardless of whether or not the referendum succeeds or not.

Wang will be out by 2020 at the latest. The only question is: Does he wait for the arena to open, pocket some profits to recover a few dozen million of his losses and THEN sell, or does he just sell immediately once the shovel's in the ground?

Then again, with the exception of Lemieux, who's obviously tethered to the team for different reasons, that's pretty much how most owners do business. You'll probably never have the highest value as when you open a new building. The Devils did the same thing, as did the Cleveland Indians, Pittsburgh Pirates, Atlanta Braves, etc.

 

[Isles Junkie]

As I understand the story, following Jay Jacobs interview fasco on WFAN (link to interview), he sent this out to democrats in Nassau County to vote no on the arena vote.

http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/BDGallof/~TDqH4

How did this guy get elected?

he didn't get elected. it's an appointed position.

 

[Renbarg]

Not to my knowledge. He's been after tax payer backed subsidies from the get-go.

This couldn't be further from the truth. It was all supposed to be privately funded. Wang wanted to develop property around the nvmc in exchange. Murray denied it because of nimby. She basically said we'll let you fix our building with your money but you have to pretty much build a quarter of what you want. The development surrounding nvmc was supposed to serve as a way to attract the financing that wang needed.

Bottom line though, its wrong to say that wang was after tax payer funds from the begining.

 

[Melrose Munch]

This couldn't be further from the truth. It was all supposed to be privately funded. Wang wanted to develop property around the nvmc in exchange. Murray denied it because of nimby. She basically said we'll let you fix our building with your money but you have to pretty much build a quarter of what you want. The development surrounding nvmc was supposed to serve as a way to attract the financing that wang needed.

Bottom line though, its wrong to say that wang was after tax payer funds from the begining.

He's still a bad owner.

 

[Killion]

Bottom line though, its wrong to say that wang was after tax payer funds from the begining.

I was vaguely aware of the fact that the initial plans "called" for private financing however opinion pieces Id read suggested Wang actually had ulterior motives and couldnt find the financing required from the private sector. If genuine, then how on earth did it morph into this mess of a bonding issue & referendum?.

 

[kdb209]

I was vaguely aware of the fact that the initial plans "called" for private financing however opinion pieces Id read suggested Wang actually had ulterior motives and couldnt find the financing required from the private sector. If genuine, then how on earth did it morph into this mess of a bonding issue & referendum?.

The original Lighthouse project was to be completely privately funded by Wang and developer Scott Rechler - in return for being granted development rights to largely vacant real estate surrounding the Coliseum. It was approved by the County but delayed, delayed, delayed, and finally killed by the Town of Hempstead, which had to sign of on an Environmental Impact Report, by an ultimatum to scale it back to the point where it was no longer economically viable. This was due to a combination of NIMBYism and dysfunctional party politics. There were some concerns about whether Wang & Rechler could come up with the financing - but there was never any talk of any public financing.

After the Lighthouse project was left to die of neglect and the County was facing the real possibility of the Isles leaving in 2015, they began working on alternatives, finally coming up with the current plan/referendum.

 

[Renbarg]

He's still a bad owner.

Why? He has made some mistakes (the committee, Dipietro, etc.) but he has appeared to learn from a lot of them. He is as good an owner as any in the league. One who sincerely cares for the team and area.

 

[Killion]

Thanks for the clarification kdb.

 

[hskates21*]

Why? He has made some mistakes (the committee, Dipietro, etc.) but he has appeared to learn from a lot of them. He is as good an owner as any in the league. One who sincerely cares for the team and area.

I completely agree I used to hate Wang but now I think he is a good as any he's learned from his mistakes and not many owners would keep a team if they knew they would consistenly lose money

 

[KevFu]

Why? He has made some mistakes (the committee, Dipietro, etc.) but he has appeared to learn from a lot of them. He is as good an owner as any in the league. One who sincerely cares for the team and area.

I completely agree I used to hate Wang but now I think he is a good as any he's learned from his mistakes and not many owners would keep a team if they knew they would consistenly lose money

I don't see how someone who bought a team tied into a loser lease that was incapable of making money for 15 years and pumped $240 million of his own money into the team (and millions more trying to build an arena himself) can be counted as a "bad owner."

Sure, some of the decisions were odd, baffling, and showed a complete lack of understanding about how the business of sports works. But that describes most owners (I could list about half of baseball owners as evidence).


And there's a certain simple logic in most his baffling moves:
On the shoestring budget, it's not easy to simply simply hire hockey people and let them do their jobs. He tried that, but he inherited Milbury.

So he looked to create a means of monitoring his GM so one guy couldn't run the team into the ground, hence "the committee." That clearly blew up in his face.

Despite the ridiculous nature of the situation, Garth Snow has actually been a pretty solid GM:
His draft picks/strategy have been pretty solid. Trading to stockpile picks, he's built a prospect pool that is now #6 on HF's organizational rankings (even more impressive when you consider the guys not included because they were rushed to the Island).

You'd be hard pressed to find a bad trade he's made - even the Ryan Smyth trade, they made the playoffs and gave up Nilsson, O'Marra and Plante (pick), the later two have combined for 31 NHL games so far.

Given the limitations of the Islanders reputation among free agents, he's used tactics to try and acquire talent he couldn't get via free agency while not giving up packages of picks. The Smyth deal is another example of that. He thought that the playoff atmosphere of the old barn and living on Long Island would entice Smyth into signing an extension. He also gambled on adding Nabokov via waivers; and the "downgrade" for 4th round picks from the Islanders to the Sabres next year to have a shot at Ehrhoff.

And of course, the DiPietro deal. Obviously, 15-years is an insane length. But when you think about the team and cap situation, the $4.5 million per year to a mediocre injured goalie now isn't a big deal when they've paid Yashin his buyout, paid DiPi to rehab, and STILL had to given incentive laden contracts to vets to get to the salary floor. The contract would be an albatross to any other team in the league. But it's not to the Islanders. And considering the bizarre career fluctuation of goalkeepers, it's STILL to early to call it a complete failure. As an optimist, I'm hoping that DiPietro suddenly finds himself healthy and runs off a nice little stretch similar to Tim Thomas' career path.

Wang's biggest failures as an owner:
Not seeking outside counsel to assess Mike Milbury in a timely manner
Not getting the arena done. And considering the fact that the 77-acre Coliseum site has been under Nassau control since the MID-50s and exactly ONE THING has been built on it despite thousands to calls to develop it, you can hardly lay any blame on him for that.